A_Urquhart

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DELETED. 
Sorry, this is not how I want to spend my three days off.
 
 

DELETED. 
Sorry, this is not how I want to spend my three days off.
 
 

I still don't understand what you are trying to convey here.
The industry accepts that images shot at 24p have 'stutter' for lack of a better word. There are ways to minimise it in the way you shoot, but 24fps can only provide smooth motion up to a certain point.  
https://cinematography.com/index.php?/topic/65391-a-question-about-motion-cadence/&do=findComment&comment=418530
Maybe read that thread and argue your case there. 
I don't know but I think this conversation is probably boring the hell out of people wanting to know about the P6K.

Film motion is not like 'silk' at all. There IS a stutter to it.
Most modern TV's have features now that attempt to smooth the motion out and the results are a little like watching 1080i or 50p at realtime speed, it looks 'videoish'
I have a little mission in life whereby whenever I visit someones house, I try to secretly turn off image smoothing when they are up making me a coffee as most TV's seem to have it on by default.
They don't notice anything and it is back to how the film maker intended ?

OK Skip.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/12/5/18127329/how-to-turn-off-motion-smoothing-tv-lg-samsung-vizio-sony-roku
 

I wasn't saying that you are watching with image smoothing on, I was just trying to illustrate how film motion DOES have "stutter" (as you called it) and the proof is that TV's try to smooth out this stutter which is not how the film maker intended. If Films were perfectly smooth "as silk" as you say, there wouldn't be this issue would there?
I don't know why you are getting so angry about this?
And yes, I often watch YouTube on my TV.....is there a problem with that?

Whoah...hang on there you two.
You are doing forums wrong if you agree to agree.
Splitting hairs, clinging on to a semantic rock and repelling all boarders...that is what it is all about.
Now, lets get this back on course and start trading petty insults.
 

By being the only one Ive watched.. thought that went without saying.
Great, then you should buy it.
The motion, the clarity, the colors and the tones/curves.
So does mine.
Looks video to me.
Exactly, very smartphoneish. Not a fan.
Please note:
I have NEVER said that the P6K shoots footage that looks videoish and can't produce cinematic footage. All Im saying is that after reading your post about "proof" that the P6K is "more cinematic than the P4K" I was very disappointed after pressing play on that video.
But like I said there are most likely much better examples of cinematic footage out there.

You may be right, but it looks like komodo is using CFAST so $2-3K media shouldn't be an issue.
 
I'm just giving my opinions here like many others are. It's a forum.....I think its good to provide balanced information to counter some miss information that might be out there. You may call it hostility, I call it giving people something else to think about rather than just believing hype.
As I've said to you before, my Pocket4K has paid for itself a few times over and continues to earn me money. I have no reason to defend my purchase because i know it has been a good one, my accounts prove it. If I didn't have the Pocket4K now and had to choose, would I choose the 6K? Nope...what exactly would I be paying double the money for?
6K BRAW? Don't need it, it's file sizes or the extra overheads it requires to edit.
4K ProRes? Already got it! Yes, the 6K to 4K downscale in camera might provide a slightly better 4K image but from what I'm hearing, the difference is negligible. 
Now if the 6K sensor was in a body with a better mount, a good battery solution like NP-F, BP-U or similar, and had a tillable screen, I might see the need in an upgrade like that and be willing to spend the double (if not more) that they are asking for the 6K and I guess that is where my disappointment is here. BMD should focus on genuine improvements rather than play the Resolution game that only really serves to impress those who don't really know better.
I guess for the price of the 6K, i would expect BMD to fix issues like poor battery life, which are excusable in the price of the Pocket4K but really inexcusable in the Pocket6kifshootingBRAW.
 
 

I don't know too much about Komodo. I do know that 'cheapest and better (specs?)' are not what those who make a living from these cameras always look for. If Red can get it to $5000 with the few specs that are currently available , then they will sell plenty of them. Reliability and workflow are what I personally look for and so do most of my peers. Sure, obviously image quality and other factors come into play but the Komodo will be popular not because it might be cheap or have the best specs, but because it is a relatively trusted brand from acquisition right through to post production.  While the Komodo body might be $5000, it will be interesting to see if you can use third party accessories with it like media and monitors etc which in previous Red cameras have always been the relatively hidden costs associated with owning one, or if Red release their own, more affordable proprietary touch screens etc????

I'm not here to defend my purchase.....I'm here to hopefully make people who have the P4K feel better about their purchase after being told by you that their camera now 'sucks' or that it 'sucks' to be them.
 I've had the P4K for over 6 months now and it has paid for itself many times over. I'll never loose money on it because it is still being requested on shoots by DP's who know the deal and know how great and flexible the camera is. Those same DP's and producers are not going to suddenly stop requesting it now that the 6K is out because it still delivers exactly what is necessary for production.  My P4K has been used as an A Cam and as a B Cam along side Ursa Mini Pro, Alexa Mini, Sony F5, Sony FS7, Canon C300II..... as an aside, there are many DP's earning good money who shoot Sony and use optical adaptors on the FS7, F5, FS5 etc. Optical adaptors are widely accepted professionally.
Not once has the MFT sensor been a bottleneck, quite the contrary, it has meant that the camera has been more versatile.
I always use it with a speedbooster because it means I have great flexibility in the lenses I can use. Shooting PL on the Alexa Mini? Sure, I can use the same lenses on the Pocket4k. Shooting EF, No problem, i can use EF....or pretty much any other lens under the sun. 
I have received many compliments on the pictures I have shot with the P4K, the release of the P6K does not mean those same images are any less good or negate the compliments I received from clients and producers. Those same producers have never requested anything greater than 4K files so the P6K would have no advantages and I have used the P4k on everything from Netflix Docs to Sports documentary for National TV. FOR ME......I just don't see ANY advantages to the P6K.
If you are a one man band and shoot/edit your own films and use EF glass exclusively while editing in Resolve and need the extra 2k resolution, sure get the P6K if you want to spend the extra money. It's going to be a great camera.
If you have the P4K and all of a sudden feel like you have been short changed....don't. It's a cheaper camera by a substantial amount (even if you do buy a speed booster, that can be had for $200), still shoots great images and is far more versatile. The 6K does not replace it. Hell, the Alexa Mini LF 'Only' shoots 4K so does the P6K suddenly mean the MiniLF is outdated?
If you want to future proof your investment then maybe 6K will be better in a year or two's time when BRAW is widely accepted, but by then, BMD will have released another camera (or two even, at the rate they are going!) with hopefully a more future proof mount.
The only people making the P4K obsolete are those that spend all their time on forums agonising over specs. In the real world, the P4K will still earn you money in a year's time....by then, there will be a new BMD camera more worthy of upgrading to.
A Viltrox adaptor will cost you $150 at works a treat. 
Also, you will need a beefier setup to edit those 6K files over the 4K ones so factor that in as well.

I would argue that with a proper cage that has support for hard mounting a booster, the cine locking EF (or PL I suppose) booster actually makes the P4K MORE of a cinema camera than the P6K would ever be. I don’t care how well-machined a standard SLR bayonet is, a positive locking cine mount is infinitely superior for any real cinema camera work with follow focus units. 
The Metabones optics are already fantastic, and now they have versions specifically for the thinner sensor stack of the P4K. There are a million things to worry about when doing cinema work other than 6K resolution. Sure, the oversample is a nice perk, but 4K is plenty.
Again, I feel like an SLR mount on a mirrorless camera is low-key stupidity. Let me put on a dummy EF adapter! Maybe even one with ND or a booster... but I digress.
I prefer the form factor of the ZCam stuff for sure, but their pricing I think is awful ambitious for a new company, no matter how good the cameras are. At the very least, the P6K will change the market’s price tiers for the better

I'm not here to defend my purchase.....I'm here to hopefully make people who have the P4K feel better about their purchase after being told by you that their camera now 'sucks' or that it 'sucks' to be them.
 I've had the P4K for over 6 months now and it has paid for itself many times over. I'll never loose money on it because it is still being requested on shoots by DP's who know the deal and know how great and flexible the camera is. Those same DP's and producers are not going to suddenly stop requesting it now that the 6K is out because it still delivers exactly what is necessary for production.  My P4K has been used as an A Cam and as a B Cam along side Ursa Mini Pro, Alexa Mini, Sony F5, Sony FS7, Canon C300II..... as an aside, there are many DP's earning good money who shoot Sony and use optical adaptors on the FS7, F5, FS5 etc. Optical adaptors are widely accepted professionally.
Not once has the MFT sensor been a bottleneck, quite the contrary, it has meant that the camera has been more versatile.
I always use it with a speedbooster because it means I have great flexibility in the lenses I can use. Shooting PL on the Alexa Mini? Sure, I can use the same lenses on the Pocket4k. Shooting EF, No problem, i can use EF....or pretty much any other lens under the sun. 
I have received many compliments on the pictures I have shot with the P4K, the release of the P6K does not mean those same images are any less good or negate the compliments I received from clients and producers. Those same producers have never requested anything greater than 4K files so the P6K would have no advantages and I have used the P4k on everything from Netflix Docs to Sports documentary for National TV. FOR ME......I just don't see ANY advantages to the P6K.
If you are a one man band and shoot/edit your own films and use EF glass exclusively while editing in Resolve and need the extra 2k resolution, sure get the P6K if you want to spend the extra money. It's going to be a great camera.
If you have the P4K and all of a sudden feel like you have been short changed....don't. It's a cheaper camera by a substantial amount (even if you do buy a speed booster, that can be had for $200), still shoots great images and is far more versatile. The 6K does not replace it. Hell, the Alexa Mini LF 'Only' shoots 4K so does the P6K suddenly mean the MiniLF is outdated?
If you want to future proof your investment then maybe 6K will be better in a year or two's time when BRAW is widely accepted, but by then, BMD will have released another camera (or two even, at the rate they are going!) with hopefully a more future proof mount.
The only people making the P4K obsolete are those that spend all their time on forums agonising over specs. In the real world, the P4K will still earn you money in a year's time....by then, there will be a new BMD camera more worthy of upgrading to.
A Viltrox adaptor will cost you $150 at works a treat. 
Also, you will need a beefier setup to edit those 6K files over the 4K ones so factor that in as well.

It’s a step down for your wallet, that’s indisputable.
I would absolutely dispute any claim that it’s an objectively better camera. Both cameras are EXTREMELY similar. There are subjective reasons that someone might prefer either camera. The question potential buyers will be asking is, “are those subjective reasons important enough to me to justify the higher price tag?” 
For me, it is definitely not. If I want a camera compatible with EF full-frame image circle lenses, I’ll just get a cine speedbooster for the P4K. It really is that simple from my perspective.
I actually see the 6K as little more than a spec sheet bragging number. Seriously, for almost all practical work (that I do), 4K is more than enough. Anything more just means bigger files.
If you do work that simply MUST have 6K Raw, by all means, nobody is stopping you. Get the P6K. The difference between APSC and Micro 4/3 is honestly pretty negligible.
Any claims of it having less noise or better dynamic range due to its sensor are COMPLETE and utter conjecture. I’ll believe it when I see real tests, and according to all the press per BM, the DR is exactly the same.
It is 2019. The concept that 6K APSC versus 4K M4/3 is a HUGE deal radical difference (all else being equal) is honestly not only laughable, but potentially bad consumer advice. They’re just different, and both are a steal compared to anything else in the market. 
I guess I should apologize for voicing my honest opinion on the pros/cons of these two cameras. I didn’t realize this was supposed to be the blind circle-jerk thread.

This. Unless you are shooting 6K BRAW exclusively (the Pocket6K doesn't do 6k in ProRes) then the Pocket4K at half the price is the better buy IMO.
Also, with the SpeedBooster on the P4K, all my full frame lenses are closer to their proper FOV than what they will be on the P6K.

Or you can choose not to believe the Metabones marketing hype and just use the adaptor you have. I'm sure Metabones will sell more speedboosters by saying that you need a new one for the Pocket4K. 
And to be fair, this has nothing to do with BMD. BMD is not going to say you will need a new Speed Booster and it's not their problem in the slightest anyway. 
Again, I used a Viltrox Adaptor on a Netflix Doc and no-one has had any complaints about the image.....and that's comparing it to the other C300MkII's using L series native glass we had on the shoot.
Comparing to FS5II is strange too. How much do you need to spend to record RAW or even a 10bit codec to the FS5?
You can 100% shoot RAW and 10bit with the pocket 4k just by adding a lens (Which you also need for the FS5),  variable ND filter and a few extra batteries. 
I think you are over reacting.

Or you can choose not to believe the Metabones marketing hype and just use the adaptor you have. I'm sure Metabones will sell more speedboosters by saying that you need a new one for the Pocket4K. 
And to be fair, this has nothing to do with BMD. BMD is not going to say you will need a new Speed Booster and it's not their problem in the slightest anyway. 
Again, I used a Viltrox Adaptor on a Netflix Doc and no-one has had any complaints about the image.....and that's comparing it to the other C300MkII's using L series native glass we had on the shoot.
Comparing to FS5II is strange too. How much do you need to spend to record RAW or even a 10bit codec to the FS5?
You can 100% shoot RAW and 10bit with the pocket 4k just by adding a lens (Which you also need for the FS5),  variable ND filter and a few extra batteries. 
I think you are over reacting.

Ive just finished up shooting on a Netflix Doc. Main cameras were C300MkII's and I was on the Pocket4K (on a Ronin S) with Viltrox EF-MFT adaptor, Sigma18-35 1.8 and Tilta Nucleus. Shot ProRes and sharpness is not an issue. Images look fantastic with this combo IMO. Maybe I just got a very good copy of the Viltrox adaptor. 
This is awesome! PMing you an idea I have......

Ive just finished up shooting on a Netflix Doc. Main cameras were C300MkII's and I was on the Pocket4K (on a Ronin S) with Viltrox EF-MFT adaptor, Sigma18-35 1.8 and Tilta Nucleus. Shot ProRes and sharpness is not an issue. Images look fantastic with this combo IMO. Maybe I just got a very good copy of the Viltrox adaptor. 
This is awesome! PMing you an idea I have......

Ive just finished up shooting on a Netflix Doc. Main cameras were C300MkII's and I was on the Pocket4K (on a Ronin S) with Viltrox EF-MFT adaptor, Sigma18-35 1.8 and Tilta Nucleus. Shot ProRes and sharpness is not an issue. Images look fantastic with this combo IMO. Maybe I just got a very good copy of the Viltrox adaptor. 
This is awesome! PMing you an idea I have......

The viable options for improving performance in Resolve from cheapest to most expensive are pretty much:
1) Get an eGPU
2) Get a desktop computer (Might be more expensive than option 3 if you get the cheese grater)
3) Get a new laptop (15" MacBook Pro if Apple)
Option 1) is cheapest and most portable, so it's definitely a sane choice even if it might not give the highest performance. The other options will be at least twice as expensive (and 4 times as expensive if you stay with apple).If an 570/580 is good enough, then go for it. The question is whether or not it's good enough.
When it comes to computers, it's better to buy cheaper for what you need today than to buy expensive in anticipation for what the future might look like.

Yes, I'm clueless. Thats why I often get paid to build edit systems and 10Gbe networks/Storage for production companies.
 
Sorry, where did I mention $50,000 outfits. You are just making shit up now.
I'm not saying you can't edit video on an iPad pro, but Kye has a MacBook Pro that he is trying to get better performance out of. For a small amount, he can massively upgrade his edit experience as well as keep his existing MacBook. The eGPU is also upgradable in future and works with Resolve now neither of which the iPad pro are capable of doing.
To recap, you suggested Kye change his hardware and edit software of choice, I suggested a solution which fits in with both of his current hardware/software solutions...Yet, you say you are the one trying to suggest affordable solutions? I think not. Cloud is good, but not there yet given current networks.
Please, keep it real dude!

An iPad Pro is not expensive on it's own, but it will cost Kye double what an eGPU costs and is much more limiting at the same time. Not only that, but we already know how much of a performance gain there is to be had with him using an eGPU with Resolve. The iPad Pro however is unknown to him, doesn't run Resolve and if he doesn't like the experience, he then has to sell it and buy another laptop. This is tedious, un-necissary, expensive and for unknown gains (if any) to him.   
Yes, GPU's and CPU's date quickly, you said it yourself! So why an iPad pro which is not upgradable? An eGPU is upgradable.
I can't keep up with the contradictions you make.
iPad Pro, 5G, cloud editing....all great in a few years but not now. Kye, can you wait a few years?
And for the sake of this discussion, maybe you and Emanual can start a 5G cloud thread?

FWIW:
 
https://www.4kshooters.net/2019/05/01/arri-alexa-mini-vs-bmpcc4k-side-by-side-footage-comparison/