KnightsFan

"We don't need no thought control" -Facebook, unironically
Lol, I saw this story earlier. Roger Waters may be a prick himself, but he's our prick and we love him for it.
I really want to see this proposed instagram ad now. Do you think they'd have a little choir of wannabe Instagram models singing "We don't need no education" or would they go with the bigger picture album theme of how (Instagram) fame drives people crazy/turns them into fascists? Actually I hope they were going to use the verses. Whichever marketing genius was going to make an ad out of "certain teachers who would hurt the children any way they could" or that their "fat, psychopathic wives would thrash them within inches of their lives" certainly has my respect.

"We don't need no thought control" -Facebook, unironically
Lol, I saw this story earlier. Roger Waters may be a prick himself, but he's our prick and we love him for it.
I really want to see this proposed instagram ad now. Do you think they'd have a little choir of wannabe Instagram models singing "We don't need no education" or would they go with the bigger picture album theme of how (Instagram) fame drives people crazy/turns them into fascists? Actually I hope they were going to use the verses. Whichever marketing genius was going to make an ad out of "certain teachers who would hurt the children any way they could" or that their "fat, psychopathic wives would thrash them within inches of their lives" certainly has my respect.

ZRaw is an example why not to make a new Raw format. No support in Resolve, requires a plugin to work in Premiere. Now if Panasonic added Braw that would be amazing!

ZRaw is an example why not to make a new Raw format. No support in Resolve, requires a plugin to work in Premiere. Now if Panasonic added Braw that would be amazing!

ZRaw is an example why not to make a new Raw format. No support in Resolve, requires a plugin to work in Premiere. Now if Panasonic added Braw that would be amazing!

The other thing about the S1H is it's overlooked by just about everybody as a photo camera.
I'm not sure how it's marketed without checking, but my 99% of everything coming from everyone who is not Panasonic is that it's primarily a video tool.
It's a bloody good photo camera I can tell you!
I really liked the files coming out of my previous Fujis, but the raws from this are another level up.
And the fact it has an optical low pass filter and therefore is supposedly less sharp, good, - results coming from most cameras and glass these days are far too sharp!
I shoot mine with an 1/8th mist filter also and in post, stills get a -20% clarity reduction automatically in Lightroom.
The one thing I would not mind though are a few more megapixels...
If the next gen has anything around 30-40, that would be fine with me. Anything over is getting a bit too much for my needs and these 60-100mp monsters...well I can appreciate why some might like/need them, but not for me. For 95% of my work that is and for that 5% I do, tripod and hi res mode et voila.
 

Sounds to me like a lot of us here aren't the target audience for Blackmagic. Not everyone wants to adapt lenses, look up compatibility charts, etc. Wanting MFT mount with S35 sensor or a mount specifically designed for adapting is a little bit like Gerald Undone saying the fp-L isn't worth its price because it has high rolling shutter and poor ergonomics.
The truth is, EF is still the most common lens out there. BM isn't competing for the users that want to look for custom handles, screens, and lens mounts. Want choice? Go for Z Cam--or maybe some of the internet folks are actually more interested in complaining about the design philosophy of companies they aren't buying from, than buying into the camera with the features they talk about.

Sounds to me like a lot of us here aren't the target audience for Blackmagic. Not everyone wants to adapt lenses, look up compatibility charts, etc. Wanting MFT mount with S35 sensor or a mount specifically designed for adapting is a little bit like Gerald Undone saying the fp-L isn't worth its price because it has high rolling shutter and poor ergonomics.
The truth is, EF is still the most common lens out there. BM isn't competing for the users that want to look for custom handles, screens, and lens mounts. Want choice? Go for Z Cam--or maybe some of the internet folks are actually more interested in complaining about the design philosophy of companies they aren't buying from, than buying into the camera with the features they talk about.

Sounds to me like a lot of us here aren't the target audience for Blackmagic. Not everyone wants to adapt lenses, look up compatibility charts, etc. Wanting MFT mount with S35 sensor or a mount specifically designed for adapting is a little bit like Gerald Undone saying the fp-L isn't worth its price because it has high rolling shutter and poor ergonomics.
The truth is, EF is still the most common lens out there. BM isn't competing for the users that want to look for custom handles, screens, and lens mounts. Want choice? Go for Z Cam--or maybe some of the internet folks are actually more interested in complaining about the design philosophy of companies they aren't buying from, than buying into the camera with the features they talk about.

Sounds to me like a lot of us here aren't the target audience for Blackmagic. Not everyone wants to adapt lenses, look up compatibility charts, etc. Wanting MFT mount with S35 sensor or a mount specifically designed for adapting is a little bit like Gerald Undone saying the fp-L isn't worth its price because it has high rolling shutter and poor ergonomics.
The truth is, EF is still the most common lens out there. BM isn't competing for the users that want to look for custom handles, screens, and lens mounts. Want choice? Go for Z Cam--or maybe some of the internet folks are actually more interested in complaining about the design philosophy of companies they aren't buying from, than buying into the camera with the features they talk about.

Sounds to me like a lot of us here aren't the target audience for Blackmagic. Not everyone wants to adapt lenses, look up compatibility charts, etc. Wanting MFT mount with S35 sensor or a mount specifically designed for adapting is a little bit like Gerald Undone saying the fp-L isn't worth its price because it has high rolling shutter and poor ergonomics.
The truth is, EF is still the most common lens out there. BM isn't competing for the users that want to look for custom handles, screens, and lens mounts. Want choice? Go for Z Cam--or maybe some of the internet folks are actually more interested in complaining about the design philosophy of companies they aren't buying from, than buying into the camera with the features they talk about.

Fun to read about the history.
Even when they went all in with the most advanced 8mm camera it was always a side show compared to photography though.
If you look how diverse Fuji are now, making covid drugs and stuff... Compared to Nikon which basically only has two product lines - cameras and lithography - It spells trouble for them as they are just not exploiting the demand in other areas.

I'm always glad to see people doing actual tests on these things! Thanks Andrew. I don't really see any difference in the pictures you posted.
I did quickly grab some images with my Z Cam. I can't do the same format in 8 and 10 bit, so I compared 8 bit H.264 at 120 mbps vs. 10 bit H.265 at 60 mpbs. Big difference there... here's a 1:1 crop of the sky dropped 4 stops in post and no other color adjustment. 4 stops is a lot, but not unreasonable for exposing a Zlog2 image particularly with high dynamic range. Lots of very ugly colored bands on the H.264 and actually it looks worse with the full image. It might be worth comparing your highlights as well as shadows, especially in log footage. I don't see any banding in the shadows in my image when pushed, just in the highlights.

 
So I will agree with @jghardingthat it will vary camera to camera, and encoder to encoder.

In my opinion, it's wishful thinking to hope for a cinema line from Nikon. Not that I wouldn't welcome it, I just don't think it'll happen. And if it does, it might just be too late.
2018 Aug - Nikon's Z6
2019 Mar - Panasonic S1 (FF 10 bit internal)
2019 Sept - Z Cam S6/F6 (affordable box-style cine cams)
2020 Nov - Canon C70 (cine cam in hybrid-style body, NDs, 1st party focal reducer)
2.5 years ago, Nikon had a chance to make a big splash for filmmakers by adding the basic features we want. If the Z6 had beaten Panasonic to 10 bit log internally, it would have solidified Nikon's standing as a hybrid video leader. If they'd made a modular camera like Z Cam in early 2019, or if they'd made a C70 before Canon, it would have filled a spec and ergonomic gap that has now been filled.
What is there left for them? We're not all clamoring for 8k now that 4k in mainstream. Very few people are looking for 12 bit internal now that we have 10 bit. We're not clamoring for a second set of internal NDs. The basic features we want haven't changed now that they are starting to be filled. And yes, I know there are still places to innovate. Internal ND's on a hybrid hasn't been done yet. We'd all like less RS and more DR -- but Nikon isn't producing its own sensors.
And then the other side of the issue is lenses. I am very skeptical of investing in Z lenses as it would vendor lock me into Nikon cameras. EF, L, PL, and F lenses are much more flexible, and E mount has a nice long catalog of cine cams. We can be reasonably certain Nikon will continue to produce excellent photo cameras, but with no track record, investing in their lenses for cinema seems unwise. There is a lot of room for technical innovation for cine lenses, though. If there is a glimmer of hope for a Nikon cine line, I think that's it.

I'm always glad to see people doing actual tests on these things! Thanks Andrew. I don't really see any difference in the pictures you posted.
I did quickly grab some images with my Z Cam. I can't do the same format in 8 and 10 bit, so I compared 8 bit H.264 at 120 mbps vs. 10 bit H.265 at 60 mpbs. Big difference there... here's a 1:1 crop of the sky dropped 4 stops in post and no other color adjustment. 4 stops is a lot, but not unreasonable for exposing a Zlog2 image particularly with high dynamic range. Lots of very ugly colored bands on the H.264 and actually it looks worse with the full image. It might be worth comparing your highlights as well as shadows, especially in log footage. I don't see any banding in the shadows in my image when pushed, just in the highlights.

 
So I will agree with @jghardingthat it will vary camera to camera, and encoder to encoder.

The more I learn about each aspect of the image pipeline, the more I realise that everything matters.
If you have a camera like the A7S3 where it's a good sensor, good image processor, and good codec, then the fact that it's 8-bit isn't too bad because the other things are fine.  
I've run into issues shooting 8-bit C-Log with the Canon XC10.  This should be a reasonable example of 8-bit done well as it's a Canon cine/video camera with 4K 300Mbps 8-bit codec, but alas....
Here's this shot, which I will admit is underexposed:

which gives us this when we convert the colour space:

but unfortunately, if we zoom into the seat in the bottom left:

Is this an 8-bit issue?  Is this a poor codec issue?  I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.
Let's take another example:

Which after a transform gives this:

and look at the noise!

Now, is that ISO noise?  8-bit quantisation?  a "poor" 300Mbps codec on a Canon cine camera?
This is the vector scope, which clearly shows the 8-bit quantisation:

Yes, this is an extreme example with a low-contrast scene, a flat log profile, and 8-bit codec, but this was a $2K Canon cine camera with a 300Mbps codec.
So, I replaced it with a GH5, with the decisive factor being the internal 10-bit.  
Let's take this image here, a 10-bit HLG frame with almost zero contrast:

and actually try to break it by applying more contrast than you would ever use in real life:

and it holds together.  
Is that the 10-bit?  Is that the 150Mbps 422 codec?  Is that the fact it's a downsampled 5K image?  Who knows, but it's a night and day difference where with an 8-bit example I struggle to get a good image from a real world shot and a 10-bit image where I can't break it even if I tried.
I like to think about it like this - 8-bit can be good enough if you have a good enough implementation of it (unlike the XC10) but a good 10-bit implementation will give you security that you're not going to run into bit depth issues, so for me it's a safety thing.

it seems to vary camera to camera, the whole 8-bit vs 10-bit thing,

Like Panasonic S1H the 8-bit in vlog has the weird banded magenta thing and can render it unusable, Sometimes even in non-vlog profiles, but the 10-bit is great.

But the 12-bit BRAW for the Video Assist is just excellent! Such a huge jump up if you're going to do keying and heavy grading and so on.

In 99% of cases there seems to be little benefit to using 10bit other than more difficult to edit, larger file sizes.
10bit is one of those easy to get excited about specs on paper. It’s a bit like the amount of memory in your PC or the speed of the CPU.
The higher number, the better!
What actually makes the difference when it comes to image quality? Well it’s a bit complicated. RAW is the ultimate codec, and the ultimate pain in the ass. LOG is great, no question. Lots of dynamic range, small file sizes, easy to edit and to apply a LUT. And for great LOG you need 10bit, right?
Well it seems that on the A7S III the difference is much of the time impossible to even see.
Not that this was not already proven by the Canon 1D C and that infamous MJPEG codec. The 8bit Canon LOG mode on that was incredibly nice. Fast forward nearly 10 years and there’s far less difference between 10bit 4:2:2 and 8bit 4:2:0 on the Sony A7S III than you might expect.
New blog post:
https://www.eoshd.com/news/sony-a7s-iii-10bit-image-quality-vs-same-camera-in-8bit-with-surprising-results/

Bit really just saw that in the final cut video and was impressed. It could save me a couple of minutes per project, as I dont need to play the track to see where its clipping. I would just import the track and everything thats clipped is already marked.
Im all about workflow, I loose focus fast, so when I am doing these little things, its focus I can spend better on actual clip editing.

One thing that struck me from the tests was how neutral the over and under exposures are.  That's absolutely not the case on most other cameras, and I speak from experience here because I have routinely exposed things poorly in the past and then suffered in post when things didn't behave how I anticipated/hoped they would!
Once again, the cameras that most remind me of this trait is the original BMPCC and BMMCC, which use very little highlight rolloff, so the way you use them is to ETTR and pull things down in post, and they look very similar (I did tests), at least when overexposing things anyway, if things are underexposed then the results aren't so good.
It might even be that the usability of the DR of the Alexa is more useful than the sheer amount of it.

I want to add some thoughts to Andrew's (with which I mostly agree): At least among the group of photographers and videographers that I know, the main reason they buy m43 or APS-C cameras is not because of the look of the smaller sensor, or even because of their size or weight, but rather because of cost.
If it was up to most of my friends, they'd be using full-frame cameras all the time. As a matter of fact, many of them just abandones the GHx line in favor of the new lower-cost Canon, Nikon and Sony mirrorless cameras.
So as the price war keeps raging, my guess is that eventually the m43 format will disappear or become a much smaller niche. It's a pity though, as their sizes and weight makes them wonderful tools for certain scenarios (for artistic and/or practical reasons).
The good news is that at least from a creative standpoint we will be able to continue using crop sizes within full-frame sensors to get things done, although many lenses will need to be adapted obviously.

Me and my friend are planning on shooting something over the summer and I thought this would be a good time to invest in a new lens. Right now I only have two kit lenses that came with the camera. What is a good lens that I can get that will be flexible enough to do most things in filming a short film? I understand that I will not be able to do the whole thing with just one lens.
My gear: Nikon D5600, Nikkor 18-55mm and Nikkor 70-300mm https://snaptube.cam/.
I am willing to buy a converter so if you have a good Canon or Sony lens please don't hesitate to drop it down there.
I am shooting for a lens from $500-$800. Any suggestions would be super helpful!

Obvious this is wrong of Small Rig but I just think nearly all companies are pulling similar stunts and content creators are happy to enable it in 99% of situations.
I don't know this guy but it's good he has spoken out.
But it is a bit like watching two sales people arguing about principals.
If this was Sony sending him a free A7S III would he have called them out for blackmail?
If Canon had sent him an EOS R5 but he didn't like the overheating, is this blackmail when they expect content from him?
It is the unspoken rule.
If you want free stuff, they expect you to return the favour and do your part.
Is it a quid-pro-quo when nobody complains and blackmail when somebody does?
No they are the same thing really.
The only difference between Sony with Gerald Undone and Small Rig with this guy is the degree of subtleness.

No, it can't. And also if you have a 3.5mm mic plugged in, you can't use the internal mic. So you can't do internal L + 3.5mm R.

I have an E2 M4. I haven't gotten to use it much because of Covid, so I've only shot 2 small interviews, and a half dozen "walk around outside" tests.
The minimum setup is a CFast card, battery, lens, and phone. That's how I use it on a gimbal (I mentioned my setup in my post here). If you use it handheld, I would get a handle for each side. With a wide grip, it's very stable. There are some nice grips with control functions, but they are expensive. I would say that no matter what controls you use, it won't have the speed of a DSLR or cinema camera with more buttons and better ergonomics. It's not designed as a run and gun camera.
The image is very nice. There are lots of examples on the fb group, and I can shoot stuff if you want a specific test... likely limited to nature shots though. I wouldn't say the image its necessarily better than other cameras in the price range, though I like the color, high frame rate, and codec options. The app and the OFX plugin really set it apart from competition.
 
Some gotchas you will want to check before purchase:
- some Android phones just don't work with the app. I'd ask in the fb group for your specific model, if that's how you plan to use it.
- Timecode is a pain. You need 2 separate adapters. Or, you can set it over wifi from a jquery post (work in progress but it does work). Internal clock is atrocious, I got seconds of drift over a 20 minute period compared to the Zoom F4.
- Viltrox adapters don't work with many Autofocus lenses. Their support told me they don't support the M4... despite supporting the E2.
- It doesn't play nicely with the Ninja V. YMMV. Also saw some reports of it frying the HDMI port if connected to specific models of monitors, when both are powered from the same battery.