kye

1 hour ago, androidlad said:

It was totally screen grab, based on empirical evidence from comparing with the original master, I don't care/need what you say. Of course your colours are way off.

Have a nice life dickhead.

Blocked.

23 hours ago, FoxAdriano said:

Hi, I'm a non-happy owner of a Lumix GH5, if I want to shoot in rec.2020 with my GH5, what should I do please? What is the easiest step to do? Thanks.

This is an interesting question and I did some googling and I think it said that HLG is rec2100, but maybe I didn't understand that correctly.

Does anyone know for sure?

28 minutes ago, androidlad said:

Screen grab from online video will never show anywhere near an accurate representation of colour, I wouldn't put them in vectorscope and use as critical reference.

Who said screen grab?

You seem very quick to point fingers at other people here, so before doing it maybe you should learn to pay more attention.

You might learn something.

5 hours ago, kaylee said:

wow, @kye, awesome~! thank you for the visual aides!!! i get it now ?

edit: ykno, ive been looking at arri footage for awhile now, but this is eye opening

> their skin tones are super homogeneous... almost too flat...? there must be a lot of magic going on to put those hues all right on that line, and i get why they do it, but...

the people in the arri shots look somewhat... mannequinesque. like, can you imagine them blushing? they are kinda wax like ?

It's definitely a 'look' but as @Deadcode says it's quite achievable with the hue vs hue curve to push the skintones together a bit and lessen the hue spread. Also worth paying attention to is the saturation as that's quite controlled too. It's worth pulling a still into Resolve and with a tiny window having a look around the face to see which bits make up the overall vectorscopes above.

Personally, when I first saw them I was quite surprised at how yellow and processed they looked and while I've gotten used to the look since then it's still quite a strong look for my eyes.

4 hours ago, Sage said:

That's right - it depends on the light. Imagine a magenta neon light - its got a limited spectrum. That the LF promo video is on the line is a sign that they are using a rich, full spectrum light in the studio - no doubt the Arri Skypanel. Sunlight and Halogen are relatively smooth spectrum, and an accurately balanced Alexa will place on the line; off-the-self leds and flourescents are a different story.

Apart from lighting I think that the hue can vary depending on the person too  Sick or not there's lots of variation.

8 hours ago, kaylee said:

kye, what do you mean by "the line"?

8 hours ago, mercer said:

I think he means the skin line on the Vectorscope. 

Yep.. that's right, sorry I should have said.  Specifically the line in Resolve.  Theres a bit of a debate about if it's the skin colour line or just an indicator, but the point is that skin tones actually vary wildly in hue depending on lighting conditions.  The idea that skin tones should be on the line are shot down pretty quickly on the grading forums.

The top row are from the ARRI video, and the bottom row are from other videos that got good reception.

Here are a bunch of vector scopes from the ARRI video - notice the highly, highly, highly controlled skin tones!

These are a couple from the C200 demo video (IIRC) and note the more spread out line, and also that the line is between the indicator line and the Red reference box, and even slightly beyond the red in certain areas. 

Some time ago I compared the skintones from the ARRI LF and C200 demo videos and the ARRI skintones were on the line or to the yellow side and the Canon ones were spread between the line and magenta reference point.

22 hours ago, henricus said:

Thanks Kye!

My xc10 is a pal version, so somehow 24p is not an option. Too bad because that’s what I’d normally use. At the moment I want to work in HD since I plan to record a lot of material for a docu style project. And my computer had already trouble to handle the 4K g85 files.. I’ve read that the HD quality in good light is rather good, so I’d like to try that our first.

So you prefer 25p over 50p? In this mode there is also the option to record in mp4 file structure. Will that degrade the quality in any way? I’ve read posts from Van Daven and others that they prefer the 50p mxf quality on the xc10. Btw I have no interest in using slow motion. I just want to know in what HD setting the file quality is the highest. 

I love the way the auto focus organically snaps into focus. This is one of the things that always annoyed me with my mirrorless camera’s. The af was always so abrupt, not to speak of the hunting. With this camera you can actually use af with confidence.

I have now attached a 2 stop ND filter, this together with the built in 3 stop ND filter shoukd make it easier to keep the iso low enough.

The 25p has a bit more data per frame than the 50p, and IIRC the MXF has a higher bitrate than the MP4, but probably the best thing to do is run some tests yourself and see how it performs.  I'd suggest doing a side-by-side test that includes skin tones and do shots that are normally exposed, one stop over and one stop under, then grade them and you'll get a bit of a feel for how they push around in post.

I used to setup the camera so that the first resolution option was 4K 305mbps, the second was 50p MXF, and the last was 25p MP4.  I'd use the 4K for most things, 50p for slow motion, and the mp4 for long shots like time lapses or whatever where the quality doesn't matter much but file sizes did.  After I did a grading test that included a mixed-lighting shot in c-log 50p and brought up the shadows a bit I was pretty crushed at how awful it looked.  I then did a slow-motion test of 4K25 slowed to 50% using Optical Flow vs the 50p MXF and decided to never use the 1080 modes again    But if you expose normally then it should be fine

I found that a 4-stop ND was enough to get 180degree shutter even with the sun in frame, so 2-stops should be fine  

@henricus greetings from Australia!

The XC10 is a lovely video camera, welcome to the club!

My recommendations are to shoot 4K if you can handle the file sizes, or 1080 24/25 fps if you can. Shoot C-log at the lowest ISO you can - ISO performance isn't great but it also adds temporal NR at the higher ISOs which is where the ghosting comes from (something I've never seen in real life BTW). The slow-motion mode isn't good quality at all, especially if you're shooting C-log or will need to grade much, as it's highly compressed 8-bit.

Keeping the 180degree shutter is only an aesthetic choice I think.

If you're shooting C-log then a simple conversation with the Canon C-log to rec709 LUT and then basic grading using the lift/gamma/gain controls should give excellent results.

The focus peaking isn't that precise so I'd suggest using the punch-in if you're using MF button, otherwise autofocus works quite well and I found it to be accurate.

I like getting a bit more separation in my shots than the XC10 provides so I've moved to the GH5 with primes, but apart from that aspect the camera was a joy to use.

Enjoy!

Have you had a look at the BM documentation? They have a document called something like the "hardware guide" for Resolve, it steps through all the different combinations and gives specific advice on things. It's not a complete answer to every question but it's a good place to start.

7 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I am amazed that you are coming to this conclusion so late, especially after mentioning this "other world" in some of my earlier posts to you (half a year or so ago!).

There are unlimited professional productions every day in the whole world, and not even 1% of those people are following, or participate in youtube.

Also, when you work on a production, usually have a particular role. It is great to do a lot of things - and I do - but on a regular production (be it a tv show, a film, a corporate, an advertisement), you have to do the thing that you are best, and/or more experienced at. Budgets and timelines are very strict and specific, and there is no time for "education" or even a tiny little mistake.

It's kind of a funny thing because I get mixed feedback about how much the different world's are aware of each other. I can push the point here with people who don't seem to have worked in the industry and not get anywhere, or also have strange feedback from people here who don't seem to understand that you can get cinematic footage without using a grey-card to manually WB or set manual exposure with histograms or false colour, and even if my gopro could do that it wouldn't be practical to do that for every shot when I'm swimming in a lake underneath a waterfall!

The guys over at LGG assured me that they were aware of how compromised the real-world shooting conditions are for one-person operations or low-budget productions, especially if there's travel or uncontrolled situations involved, so I think it's an awareness thing and that will range from person to person.

Personally, my journey with film started about 20 years ago when I got involved in film through my sister who went to film school and I helped her co-produce a few short films, as well as helping on set and in post with my home recording studio I had for making my own music. I did a producers course, we got a couple of film grants and did the local festival circuit for a few years before she moved away and I let it go.

It was only a year or so ago that I swapped over from photos to video for family and travel adventures and I started editing video myself and started learning the specific skills that I didn't have. A few people have been confused by me talking about how a film set is run when on the other hand I look like an amateur moving from photos to video. We all have our own combination of experience and skills.

At least we don't have the constant barrage of new people coming in and asking the same questions (that are answered really clearly in the manual) over and over again like they do on the BM Resolve forums!

Yes.  But, "ever" is a really long time.

13 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Sorry to bring up an old thread but with panny releasing the S1 and S1R FF L-mount what is to become of MFT?  I'm looking into investing into some good lenses but dont want to buy something that looks like it might be on the way out or am I wrong?  I was all set on getting a GH5 as well but I think I will sit on the sideline a bit and wait and see. 

The GH5 is one of those cameras where far more people own one (or more) than are visible from forum posts and YT reviews etc.  They are workhorses.  Even if no more MFT cameras or lenses are released ever again there will still be many thousands of users making millions of videos per year for the next 5+ years.  4K 10-bit isn't going anywhere soon.  There are major networks in the US who still shoot 1080 and broadcast 720, and people watch YT on their phones.

My recommendation is to work out exactly what features you require in a camera system, to review your options and then go buy what you need.  If you aren't sure about a GH5 vs something newer then that means the GH5 already meets your requirements and so you're just tempted by shiny toys of new cameras.

At the end of the day, a camera is a tool to make stuff.  Either buy a GH5 and stop worrying about what's around the corner and go make stuff, or keep what you have and stop worrying about what's around the corner and go make stuff.  If you're worried about the resale value of the camera then maybe stick with the camera you already own and go buy stocks instead - tech is the worst investment possible

This page is very useful for working out lens mounts!

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Lens_mounts

3 hours ago, thephoenix said:

i like this chanel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZtUUSXgoWy6_c_e1CoWH5w/videos

I'd watch his equipment reviews but suggest there are more experienced colourists you can learn from.  When I said earlier I had to un-learn things, many of them were from Aram.

This channel has a bunch of interesting stuff for free: https://www.youtube.com/user/LearnColorGrading/videos

27 minutes ago, scotchtape said:

If only someone could teach me to "see" these colors properly...

Yeah, that's my problem too. I know how to drive Resolve and what curves and the other controls do, what I don't know is what to do to take a shot and make it look great.

My next push might be to find some before and after shots done by skilled colourists and try and replicate their grades. When people do the before/after wipe in their showreel that might be something I can emulate. Especially when they do a few wipes showing how they built the grade.

1 hour ago, Matt Kieley said:

f/11.

Looks like some serious CA around the highlights.  Is there also some around the girls face?  (It looks like there is a red flare there?)

Chris Hall - Anatomy of a Grade series: https://vimeo.com/chrishallcolor

Serious grades including a Day for Night conversion.

Colour grading The Hobbit: https://lowepost.com/color-grading/case-studies/the-hobbit-r4/

Sites and resources:

• The first place to look for Resolve info is the 1000+ page manual, which is excellent.  It answers most questions if you're learning Resolve.
• BM forums for Resolve: https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewforum.php?f=21
  There are people there who use Resolve all day every day, as well as newbies asking the same questions over and over..  a great resource.
• LiftGammaGain.com forums are the best place to find professional colourists..  https://www.liftgammagain.com/forum/index.php
• LGG sub-forums of particular interest are:
  Colour: https://www.liftgammagain.com/forum/index.php?forums/color.9/
  Looks: https://www.liftgammagain.com/forum/index.php?forums/looks.49/
  Resolve: https://www.liftgammagain.com/forum/index.php?forums/resolve.36/
• Lowepost is some excellent free articles and good (but not very busy) forums: https://lowepost.com
• Intermediate Codecs comparison table (very useful reference for proxies etc) https://blog.frame.io/2017/02/13/50-intermediate-codecs-compared/
• PostPerspective is about post-production and has some interesting colour articles: https://postperspective.com
• PremiumBeat has some interesting articles: https://www.premiumbeat.com/blog/
• MixingLight is a paid site but has some free resources worth checking out: https://mixinglight.com
• LUTcalc is a plugin that generates LUTs for converting between colour spaces and gammas, and although in Resolve I'd recommend using the Colour Space Transform OFX plugin over a lut (the plugin doesn't clip data like LUTs do) this LUT generator has a few colour spaces that the Resolve plugin doesn't have, eg, GoPro, so it has its uses: https://cameramanben.github.io/LUTCalc/LUTCalc/index.html

On 11/28/2018 at 4:15 PM, ykt.net said:

@FinnChristianPeper I believe this not only GHa LUT applied ? 

I would imagine there would be additional grading.

The GH5 + GHa LUT is equivalent to an Alexa with Rec709 LUT.   Most people would add a complete look after the rec709 conversion if they shot Alexa, so the same applies here I think.

2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I have been on them both for years. So I got on pretty quick back then. But man like I said if you forget your info Jesus what a pain. Stupid shit. I have no clue why you have to be logged in to see photos, videos on there?

To get you to sign up.  Everyone wants you to sign up because then they can market to you.  It's a PITA to sign up, so they have to offer some kind of reward.

1 minute ago, webrunner5 said:

It takes awhile at times. I guess they review all of the new applications one by one.

I registered there in Jan this year, still haven't been approved.  I kept tabs on it for a couple of months, and people who registered after me became common around the place, I figured that they didn't want new users and gave up.

Having good moderation on forums is critical, and if you're so incompetent that you can't approve new users then your forum isn't worth any of my time.

10 hours ago, Orangenz said:

You don't like Casey Faris? I've found his work quite helpful so far.

I kind of don't know what to think about Casey Faris.  On one hand he uses the simple controls like the pros tend to, he seems to be able to do difficult things pretty quickly and efficiently (like matching cameras), and in comparison to most other YT grading people who sell LUT packs he looks level-headed and like he knows what he's doing.  There's a YT colourist who bragged in one of their videos that they don't plan their grading videos, they just hit record and then make up the grade as they go along.

However, if you compare him to Juan Melara then there's an enormous gap between Juan and every other YT colourist I'm aware of.  Juan doesn't even seem to use Resolve in the same way that everyone else does - it's kind of like he's from another planet.  His videos are absolute tours of force, and it's obvious that he has enormous depth of technical knowledge about colour spaces, colour conversion theory, etc.

These are good examples of the level of knowledge that Juan has:

Whenever Juans videos are discussed on the LGG forums the pros there admire him but aren't amazed, so from their reaction I have concluded that Juan is very knowledgable but not beyond the norm for professional colourists.

I think film-making on YT is kind of becoming it's own universe and people like Casey stand out.  However in the traditional world of film-making there are colourists who are part of professional guilds, work as part of the feature film industry, go to industry conferences, and some of them teach - either in person or behind paywalls and we've never even heard of them.  The YT world and that professional world don't really have much contact with each other, so if it wasn't for people like Juan Melara we almost wouldn't know that there are people who put the rest of us to shame.

In a sense, Casey is doing just fine, and if he can make footage look good and match different cameras together then that's all that's needed.  There's no right or wrong way to do art, after all.  However, once you become aware of the skill level that is out there in the industry then it's a bit hard to look at the YT colourists who sell LUTs and wonder if they're professional colourists or if they're really just LUT salespeople who only need to know enough more than their customers to appear knowledgeable enough to make good LUTs.  

When there are people like Juan who know so much more than the colourists who take log / non-rec709 footage and just adjust it with the LGG wheels or contrast controls it makes you wonder what else they're telling you that's flat our wrong, let alone just unhelpful advice.  I watched many hours of YT colourists to get familiar with Resolve, and after studying Juans videos and reading lots of LGG threads, I realised that much of the techniques I'd learned from YT were just bad advice, and I needed to unlearn them and learn good replacement techniques.

17 minutes ago, Belle said:

This is a pocket camera. Really.

Yes, but is it a pocket cinema camera?

(Yes, I'm kidding...  welcome to the forums!)

3 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

Maybe I'm too cynical and just going into device overload now that I'm carrying the Sony's for stills/video, a gimbal for the a73, my iPhone XSmax, a Osmo phone gimbal, a GoPro, a 360 camera, and a Phantom 4 for productions depending on the needs of the day.

I sympathise about device overload.  While I don't carry that many devices, I certainly own that many through past upgrades and whatnot.  Unfortunately these days it seems that we buy new gear when the new device adds one extra feature to the existing products with their dozens of features.