Django

I don't know much about landscape photography.. but logic would dictate a high MP camera, without an AA filter & max amount of DR would be ideal. 

Which is why I assume D810/D850/A7RIII & MF seem to be the popular choices.

Canon really only has the 5DSR (+50MP & no AA filter) but the DR on that sensor is old tech. 1DX2 kinda sounds like an odd choice for landscape tbh but what do i know..

Personally.. I shoot people (mostly) which is why Canon CS/Skintones & fast lenses with mojo is my priority.

Canon have also confirmed IBIS is on the way so you can add that to the Pro body specs. 

Also here is what Canon had to say yesterday about the upcoming Pro body:

DE: There's one more question to which I think I probably already know the answer. Do we know anything at all about when the pro EOS R body will arrive? Will it be in 2019 or 2020, or you can't even say which?

(...)

Canon: We know there's a lot of customers and there's strong demand for a pro body. We're aware of that. But at the same time, the expectations in terms of performance are really high as well, so we need time to make sure that we get everything right in the body.

WB: Mmm. That's very smart.

DE: Well I think the pro body will demand advances at the sensor level for very fast AF maybe. Sensors take a long time to design and bring to market.

Canon: Yes. You know well.

<laughter>

https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2019/02/13/juicy-tidbits-on-canon-eos-rp-interview-q-and-a

The fact they say "we need time" makes me think later than sooner ETA but it does sound like a new (pro) sensor is being developed for it..

Reading between the lines my guess is this sensor will not be recycled from previous tech this time but will be based on the future 1DX3.

Personally, I'm hoping for that elusive global shutter sensor Canon patented a while back. Yeah wishful thinking I know..

My point is that you get 25fps in PAL but not 24fps in NTSC. Rather odd. Zone crippling?

 PAL movie settings:

4K (16:9) 3840 x 2160 (25, 23.98 fps) intra frame 7 
4K Time-lapse (16:9) 3840 x 2160 (29.97, 25 fps) All-I 
Full HD (16:9) 1920 x 1080 (59.94, 50, 29.97, 25 fps) intra frame, intra frame lite (29.97, 25 fps) 

NTSC movie settings:

4K 3840 x 2160: 23.98fps
Full HD 1920 x 1080: 59.94fps/29.97fps

HD 1280 x 720: 59.94fps/29.97fps

?

it does 25p in PAL mode...middle finger to US/Japan users?

Haha Canon, the masters of product segmentation! Seriously though who is really surprised?

Its a $1300 FF camera. No way was Canon going to cannibalize its EOS R / 5D4 so quickly.

I still think its a decent deal. I have a workaround for the 4K CDAF thing: shoot FHD using crop mode, you then get a very nice/detailed 4K downsampled IQ with DPAF.

edit 1: EF-S lens support is 4K only so looks like crop mode may be disabled in FHD! 

No 24p/25p is ridiculous though but I guess just shoot 30p and export on a 24/25p timeline?

edit 2: Just watched Gordon Laings review: it has 25p FHD.. is 30p only for NTSC??

Any definitive word on the crop?

@mercer you can always shoot in good old "prolost flat" (i have EOS R set to this on default) or EOSHD Clog.

59 minutes ago, Snowbro said:

I like Canon and all, but I really don't see why you would buy this small (cheap) camera over an a6500 for $300 less. If you are doing video, it is a dog in comparison. Just throw some fast inexpensive sigma glass on a sony & you'll have a great look. 120p 1080, 4k with log etc.; I bet the 'crop factor' will be similar between the cameras. 

For photos, who on earth wants that terrible 6d ii sensor. Color depth and DR is 10 years behind, wake up. 

DR on that sensor is weak for sure but DR isn't everything to everyone. If your shooting indoors or with flash that might not even be an issue.

For $1300 on a FF you can't really be too picky..

Color depth however is rated at 24.4 bits which is quite good and even slightly ahead of 1DX2 (24.1 bits).

As for the A6xxx comparisons, well the RS on those make it a no go imo. Hopefully RP is closer to 1DX2 than to M50 in that regard..

..red & blue valentine theme it is:

Yeah crop doesn't really have to do with processing power, more so that Canon does 1:1 4K readouts no?

Maybe some math expert can predict the crop now that we have final sensor specs? 

Damn, not only does it have 4K DPAF.. but it does so with continuous eye-AF in video. ..something EOS R can't even do (Canon better add that in a future update!)

No ALL-I codec, 10-bit out or Clog were to be expected.. but all in all not that much missing.

Pretty sweet deal for $1000 cheaper than EOS R released only 4 months ago.. 

Well EOS RP $1299 price just got confirmed. Looks like Canon is really looking to shake the FF market with this one!

edit: price includes grip + EF adapter as well!

2 hours ago, kaylee said:

i can appreciate that! but its like... adapters... etc. who has a 5d4, or 1dxii, or whatever, and a closet full of EF glass, whos going to run out and buy canons first "serious" mirrorless camera? i think its going to be a slow adoption rate lol, but we'll see

btw, how is that EVF? @Django?

4

EOS R isn't presented by Canon as a DSLR substitute but rather an addition. That said quite a few 5D/6D series users are switching over. 1DX2 users no way, B-cam at best.

The EVF? its a 3.69 million dot OLED.. best EVF I've ever used. No blackout either.

Touch & Drag focus point selection is also brilliant, especially for a lefty like me. Makes joystick FP selection feel antiquated.

Also love that all my FF Canon accessories (Speedlights etc) work seamlessly. Really missed solid flash performance on Fuji X series.

@leslie They are actively working on it. EOS R firmware update gave some hope but A1ex from ML posted this yesterday:

"The firmware update... unfortunately wasn't helpful. None of my previous tricks worked with it. I'm still wondering why some of my previous test FIRs resulted in green screen, but I'm now 100% sure we did not execute any code on the camera. The green screen was likely a bug in Canon's FIR loading routine, or something like that.

The good news -kitor identified two UART ports: one at 3.3V, used by the MPU (outputs the log from above) and another at 1.8V, likely used by the main CPU (same voltage level on DIGIC 6). The latter needs some level shifting, but - at least on previous models - it has everything we need to enable the boot flag and explore around.

Worst case - ML on EOS R may require some hardware hacking in order to install it (like in the above picture). No big deal, right? I mean, you need a lot more knowledge to be able to use it "

Magic Lantern Forum - EOS R

He actually linked to a post here by @kye ? 

Huh? EVF/size/weight/AF coverage/adapters/etc all concern still photography too bro.. they aren't video specific features such as Clog/10bit out/codecs..etc

1 hour ago, kaylee said:

@mercer lolol

i was thinking tho, i have no idea what still photographers talk about, but do they like the R system? are they into it? like, on the forums?

seems like a tough sell?? if i just shot stills and had a bunch of EF glass... why would i be interested in this again? cuz its so small and lightweight to go with my 200-400mm lens?

Do we really need to remind the advantages of MILC vs DSLR? EVF/size/weight being the most obvious.. 

5.6K AF points covering 90% of the sensor being another reason..

The Vari-ND and Control-ring adapters are also a good way of breathing fresh air into your legacy EF lens collection.

Also don't forget 5 new innovative RF L lenses are also being announced tomorrow (well 6 with the 85mm F1.4 DS).

In only 4 months Canon will have built a full pro lens lineup that actually surpasses it's EF L counterparts. 

Can't say as much about Nikon with it's boring & slow F4 zoom lenses..

Personally, as an EOS R owner, I have no hard feeling towards RP. It'll be a mirrorless 6D2 that shoots 4K.

I'm actually hoping the crop factor & RS will reduce, we all wanna see Canon achieve that.

Nokishita has added 4K to the specs:

EOS RP

26.2 Million Pixels Full Size Sensor

Dual pixel CMOS AF

DIGIC 8

4K video

Continuous shooting performance: 5 frames / sec

ISO sensitivity: 100 to 40000 (equivalent to extended ISO: 50, 51200, 102400)

Organic EL EVF

3.0 type touch panel variable angle liquid crystal

Dual Sensing IS

DLO in camera, RAW development in camera, C-RAW compatible

Size: 132.5 x 85.0 x 70.0 mm

Weight: Approximately 440 g (body only), about 485 g (including batteries?)

Kit lens: RF24 - 105 mm F4L IS USM (domestically RF 35 mm F 1.8 macro IS STM)

EOS RP + EG-E1 extension grip

Minor Firmware update but seems to address the various banding/bugs case issues @Snowbro has been complaining about:

Firmware Version 1.1.0 incorporates the following enhancements and fixes. 
1. Support for "continuous shooting" is available when "silent shutter" has been enabled.
2. Corrects a phenomenon in which an error may occur if there is a large number of files in a specific format on the memory card.
3. Corrects a phenomenon in which an error may occur when silent shutter has been enabled.
4. Corrects a phenomenon in which horizontal linear noise may occur when using specific lenses together with certain recording image quality settings.
5. Corrects a phenomenon in which the information displayed in the viewfinder may become abnormal. 

EOS R Firmware Version 1.1.0
 

This topic has already been covered here. A73 may rank #1 in color accuracy, Sony is often considered last position as far as overall color science appeal (Venice excluded).

XT3 also ranks #1 in accuracy but offers some of the most pleasing color sciences imo as they are based on actual film stock (Eterna being my personal favorite).

EOS R also gives you the choice in between "classic" EOS color science & "neutral" a more Alexa like color matrix.

Of course this is all subjective. After all some people love shooting black & white. How is that for color accuracy?

I want my exposure metering & WB to be accurate. Color is a different matter. I'll shoot in neutral profile or even log if i want the least color science influence.

That test page also feels somewhat inaccurate/incomplete, as we know Sony AWB can fall apart under mixed lighting & XT3 can have weird color shifts when shooting Log.

APS-C = Super35. 4k60p on XT3 is 1.67x 1.71x so yeah closer to Super35 than to FF.

4 hours ago, jbCinC_12 said:

Thanks.  So that's almost full-frame, be it an Academy ratio size sensor (ASP-C).  

No, the crop is obviously added on top of the native sensor size so it’s 1.17x + 1.5x (APS-C) .

That’s nowhere near FF..

8 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Yeah but most of that stuff isn't really tech advancement, just stuff they left out of the 1DX2 presumably to protect their cine line or maybe because its Canon. Again Canon just feels behind, 6 years ago Sony was doing mirrorless full frame, Canon just released a mirrorless full frame body, and it can't do full frame 4k. 

2

Indeed, Canon only entered the mirrorless FF market 3.5 months ago.. Give them a year or two. Lens lineup is already looking strong. Next-gen should do FF 4K. 

Sony also protects their Cine line btw. Why do you think they cap all their Alpha codecs at 8-bit 100mbs XAVC-S?

Quote

Panasonic generally updates all of their bodies a new GH, G, and GX and when you look from Camera to camera you generally see pretty large advancements all across the board. I don't that is seen as much with Canon. Same with Sony people like how they just throw top of the line AF in a $900 body.

 

Sony put a 4-year-old (A6300) sensor in their new A6400. It still has the same abysmal RS, still no headphone jack, same weak ergos. 

All they did is update the AF & put that weird looking flip-up screen.

IF anything they pulled a major Canon on this one..

Quote

True although I think we all know Sony will soon release a body that will output 10bit (likely two bodies). 

Soon? At Photokina, Sony admitted going back to the drawing boards for A7S3 and that it will take much longer than expected to release.

This seems confirmed with the big firmware update for A73/A9. They are going to milk those cameras for another 12-18 months imo.

5 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

The thing is you'd expect high end from years ago to be the current standard.

 

No not really. 1DX2 is still Canon's flagship pro camera body today. Why would they put those specs on a mid-range camera costing a third of its price?

Furthermore, 1DX2 is above-all an action/sports photography camera. To achieve its FPS etc it uses a 20MP sensor + 2 Digic processors.

Those specs happened to serve it's video side well, but there is again no reason EOS R should be having those specs.

Just like Z6/Z7 are D750/D850 mirrorless versions & don't compete with the 20MP Nikon D5 that came out same year as 1DX2.

All that being said EOS R does trump 1DX2 in a few video areas: it has C-log, Peaking, Focus guides, a more efficient codec & 10-bit out.

3 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Here's what I don't get, they have better sensors, the 1Dx mk2. Why can't their current gen be at least on par in some ways to their older high end cameras.

Because EOS R isn't considered a high-end cam, it's a mirrorless version of the 5D4. Canon's all-rounder. EOS RP will be the 6D2 version. And the pro EOS R(X?) will indeed be closer to 1DX2.

Also, it isn't just about the sensor, 1DX2 has dual DIGIC processors inside.

3 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

I guess this was my question from earlier in the thread. What does RF bring that EF didn't?

 

Bigger mount, less flange distance = better optics. Extra contacts allowing dual IS communication, extra lens correction..etc,  new lens ring control.

The size difference on the 70-200mm speaks volumes; going from this:

To this:

That one alone is going to be a game-changer after the pro body drops..

Every camera company segments their products. Even Panasonic who seem to always get a free pass around here are holding back video features on S1 to protect their GH series.

That said I don’t believe Canon are intentionally crippling their cameras on the 4K crop or RS level. It’s just the best their current sensors can currently do.

The real innovation for now in the EOS mirrorless system comes from the new mount & RF Lens design.