Django

Somehow I missed this promo short film, its kinda brilliant in how it showcases a lot of the features in a pretty creative narrative, really liking the overall image from this new sensor:

@eatstoomuchjam Funny enough, the Greg Fraser quote you referenced actually underlines my point. He’s saying outright that moving to a larger format opens up creative possibilities precisely because you’re seeing parts of the lens you wouldn’t on a smaller sensor. The lens itself hasn’t changed, but the relationship between the sensor size and the lens’ image circle absolutely changes what’s captured.

That’s all I was getting at: bigger formats don’t alter lens physics, but they alter what part of the lens’ projection you get to play with, which translates to a different look/feel on screen. This is similar to when you have open-gate (true 3:2 or 4:3, not just 17:9), you’re also opening up different aspect ratios and lens visibility. Whether you see the extra image area as flaws or character is subjective, but the distinction Fraser is making is exactly the one I was trying to point to.

I know many GFX users like to put certain FF lenses for identical reasons, and the GFXRF & Eterna 55 use that high MP large sensor to open up multi aspect ratios which is why I don't think its irrelevant to the discussion.

Technically a sensor by itself doesn’t have a “look,” but bigger sensors change how lenses behave and how we can use the image circle, which is where the cinematic signature comes from. FF already gives shallower depth of field for equivalent framing and a FoV closer to classic 35mm photography. Open gate modes on 3:2/4:3 sensors take that further by giving you the full vertical readout, letting you reframe, use anamorphic, or extract stills without losing resolution. Medium format pushes this even more, however Fuji’s GFX sensors aren’t “true” MF like Alexa 65 or Hasselblad backs, but it’s about 1.7× the area of FF, which is enough to reveal more lens character, smoother falloff, and a slightly different perspective than FF or S35. So when you pair the sensor with fast primes and open gate capture, the format really does offer creative possibilities that smaller sensors simply can’t match.

I'm loving what I'm seeing from the Eterna so far by the way!

56 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

My turn to be nitpicky: Red cameras do offer true open gate.  The sensor itself is 17:9.  Open gate refers to using the entire sensor to record.  Open gate on a Micro 4/3 camera or GFX would be 4:3 aspect ratio.  On most mirrorless or DSLR's, it will be 3:2.  Open gate and 3:2 get conflated a lot because that's the ratio for the sensors in the cameras that a majority of people have.

Sure, I get what you're saying and thanks for making the distinction but I guess what I meant by "true open gate" is when a taller sensor (3:2, 4:3, etc.) gives you extra vertical resolution that’s actually recorded, not just the full width of a 17:9 sensor. On RED, if you want 3:2 or 4:3, you’re essentially windowing/cropping horizontally, you’re not capturing new image area above and below the 17:9 frame. That's what I mean by "pseudo open gate". 

That’s where cameras like ARRI LF, Alexa 35, or mirrorless bodies with 3:2 sensors have an edge: their open gate modes really open up more height for anamorphic or reframing flexibility. Different design philosophies, but that’s the distinction I was getting at. 

56 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Micro HDMI sucks really bad.  One of the worst connectors I've ever seen.  That said, there's also a very nice 4" screen built into the camera and I'd still say that the camera's strength is not in being built out for cinema, but in being small and relatively inexpensive.  If you're rigging the camera with a cage, you could use a cable clamp to avoid the connector breaking as soon as somebody breathes near it.
If I'm using the camera as a tiny handheld, I'm not connecting an external screen.  But definitely, if your use case is to put an external monitor on the camera without a cage, this camera is a terrible choice and you definitely should not buy it.  FWIW, the EOS R5 also has a micro HDMI port.  I think that was improved in the II, but in a couple of years of owning and casually using the R5 as my small/handheld camera (similar to how I see thie ZR), I don't think it's ever bothered me because I've never connected an external display to it.

Anyway, for me, if I were going to rig up a camera, I'd just use an OG Komodo (available used for not much more money than the ZR costs new).  I have a pretty nice minimal Komodo rig for handheld and it's pretty light.  Still a lot bigger than my R5 which is, in turn, bigger, I think, than the ZR.

I dunno for a camera that’s marketed "Cinema Z" under the RED name, micro HDMI feels like a completely unnecessary weak point. Most modern mirrorless bodies (R5 II, FX3, Lumix, even Nikon Z) have full-size HDMI now. 

It’s not just about rigging the cam but it’s about having a reliable connection for external monitors or recorders when needed. For a camera that’s trying to position itself as a serious compact cinema tool, micro HDMI in 2025 looks like a surprising step backward. That said yes kudos on them for the bright 4" screen!

29 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Keep in mind that most, if not all of the actual Red cameras from Red don't support redundancy recording.  I don't think I ever saw an older one with more than a single Red mag slot.  Komodo has a single CFast card.  Komodo-X has a single CF Express card.  I'm not sure about V-Raptor.

As far as open gate, yes, Reds do this, but their sensors are 17:9 so open gate matches that.  If they support 3:2 recording, it's by cropping the left and right edges of the frame.  I'm not sure if all of their sensors are 17:9, but again, every one that I've seen has been.

I get that RED cameras don’t offer media redundancy or true Open Gate, but in a small mirrorless form factor, some form of redundancy is more expected, especially with a hot CF/SD slot near the battery that could potentially cause failures. RED at least has RED Connect / IP streaming for backup, and SDI. All we have here is micro HDMI not exactly safe externally either. Even a “pseudo” Open Gate mode could’ve been implemented without needing a bigger sensor, just flexible readout.  Maybe I’m being nitpicky, but these shortcomings feel like crippling.

Yeah I can't help but feel that Jarred tweeting "the Nikon ZR is not a replacement for any RED camera" gives the indication  RED team wanted to protect their line and purposely not give the ZR too many pro features like redundancy recording, open gate, active cooling, proper I/O and media storage. Also the 12-bit non linear R3D code. I guess its all fair trade and still nice to see a $2K camera with REDCODE inside.. but now Nikon has a cine line to protect which may hinder them/us paradoxically.. 

I feel like Canon gave us the real surprise and actual FX3 competitor by not holding back on specs and in quite a few ways surpassing the more expensive C80/C400 (although I hear C400 will get open gate in an update).

ZR is still a banger even if we were expecting a more pro body and Nikon is being very agressive on pricing.

There are some great things in this camera: R3D code, huge screen, 32-bit float audio, IBIS etc but then some real head scratchers like the micro sd, micro HDMI, battery card slot, no fan, no open gate and overall confusion with the dual color sciences that indeed makes this a Frankenstein camera. Clearly feels like a first gen collab product. I think I'll wait to see the next iteration but it's still very encouraging and solid effort. 

6 hours ago, stephen said:

Good and solid camera but nothing groundbreaking or exciting. Sensor is non stacked and slower than the one in Sony FX3. Dynamic range probably will be a bit lower as this is typical for Canon sensors. Low light won't be as good too. In general good compromise, 14ms is still good rolling shutter. Apparently same sensor will appear in Canon R6 III. It all make sense for Canon and nicely fits in their cinema line.  Because of lower key sensor characteristics I don't see it as serious threat for Sony FX3. FX3 II for sure will be even better. I am curious to see if Sony A7 V will have stacked sensor as some rumors indicate or will follow Canon strategy of having 30-40 Mpx faster than A7 IV but non stacked sensor. 

There are some ISO comparison tests with the FX3 on YT that shows that the C50 matches if not surpasses the FX3 at ISO12800. And beats it at the more usable second base ISO6400. I think ISO6400 is a much smarter second base ISO and with the 7K oversampling and bypassable NR it makes it a better camera for low light situations. FX3 still has better rolling shutter but as you say 14ms is still decent.

For me personally, C50 is very exciting because of open-gate, the new simultaneous multi ratio recording, the dual menu system taken from R5C & the various resolution and codecs. All that in a FX3 form factor with XLR top handle. It's a true hybrid. The only real let down is the lack of IBIS and mechanical shutter for flash photography.

As I'm on multiple lens ecosystem (Canon, Sony, Leica) I was up to now set on either R5ii, Z8/Z9/ZR or FX2/FX3ii but the C50 may pull me back into Canon. Of course this means my Sony glass will remain on my FS7 but I love Canon UI, ergos, lenses and color science. I also find Clog is the easiest to grade and WideDR the best SOOC profile. Been getting gorgeous results out of the R5 ii RAW test footage. 

Again the 3:2 open gate is what's tipping the scale for me personally. I jut love having that full width 3:2 image to play around in post and being able to capture 16:9 & 9:16 simultaneously is a god send for fast delivery. May also venture into anamorphic now that the camera supports all the desqueeze factors. Lack of IBIS is a bummer but I'm hoping that with the top handle and primes, I won't get much micro jitters when shooting handheld. Hopefully the IS also performs well.

9 hours ago, ntblowz said:

Recording 2 different ratio (1:1/16:9/9:16 etc) to 2 card... that is something new! 

Yeah that struck me as a innovative feature and smart way of putting open gate to practical use.

All in all this is a solid release: 7K60 FF, 7K30 open gate, 4K120p uncropped, 5K S35, 2.5K S16. DPAF II. RAW. CLOG2/3. 32MP stills.

Dual Base ISO of 800 & 6400.

$4000 with top XLR handle. I like how the handle has rec button and zoom rocker.

Cons are no IBIS and no mech shutter. Hoping the claims of improved low rolling shutter are significant.

30 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Indeed!  If it isn't a DGO sensor, I'm not too certain that I have a reason to care about this camera much.  It's not to say it'd be bad, just that it wouldn't do much that's better/different from cameras I already own - and 3:2 recording isn't a big selling point for me.  I'm not sure that DGO needs that much more bandwidth, though.  The C70 could do it from 4K all the way back in 2020.  Surely, we've come far enough in 5 years that it could now be done on a smaller body with 3-4x the data rate!  😉

Anyway, I'm hopeful.

Full-frame DGO on the C50 is technically possible, but the thermal load from dual-gain readout at 32MP + 6K open gate would be extreme in a compact FX3 style body. On top of that, the production cost would skyrocket.. a FF DGO sensor could easily be 10–15× more expensive than an S35 DGO sensor, not counting the extra cooling, processor, and CFexpress requirements. That’s why I think Canon will likely stick to triple ISO + oversampled 6K and skip DGO.

3 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Ergonomics look good.  CF Express is nice and a welcome surprise, given that the rumors are for 6K resolution and the C80 which is also 6K only has dual SD card slots.

CF Express makes sense considering the C50 is expected to do 6K oversampled open gate. That's significantly more readout data than the C80s 6K 16:9/17:9 crop. Also the stills side of C50 could benefit from CF express for RAW burst rate etc.

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

I'm on the other side - if they put a 6K DGO sensor in that body, it's almost definitely for me.  I'd be so pumped to have DGO in such a small body - not to mention dedicated timecode so I don't kill my ears before I remember to mute the audio track that has the scratchy timecode sound.

I wouldn't get my hopes up too high. FF 6K open gate DGO would require massive bandwidth. I just don't see that happening on a lower-end C50 in such form factor. Much more likely to have Triple ISO as that's not a bandwidth multiplier. I guess we'll know in 24 hours!

28 minutes ago, Davide DB said:

Looking at those 4 screws...

Aren't the same on C70, for the Canon 0,71 speedbooster? (Hence super 35mm)

Or a RF-PL Mount adapter? (FF)

 

As I commented above, that is the RF cinema line mount system. Its on C70/C80/C400 so not at all a Super35 exclusive.

It's there to reinforce the mount for heavy cine glass weight and modularity/repair. 

What it does indicate to me is that IBIS is highly unlikely. That type of screw down rigidity doesn't have floating sensors in mind. Could be wrong but that's my feeling.

21 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

 

Yes, I would prefer no ibis for a multitude of reasons. The C50 is such a chubby FX3 epigone that it has to outclass it in order to not be torn apart by all the shilltubers. Open gate is more or less confirmed, but what sensor and what read out speed and what dynamic range we will see is still unclear. But nice that they put a CFexpress card inside, the rumors were talking about 2x SD.

I think such a compact form factor would benefit greatly from IBIS to eliminate micro jitters on handheld shots, but gimbal shooters probably don’t want it to mitigate wobble effect on wide lenses. Not a deal breaker for me personally but I’d be disappointed if they omit it. Sony shill tubers will have a field day pointing that out as a miss if that’s the case. 

8 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

I really hope they don't ruin it with IBIS. And seeing that the battery is LPE6P the battery life will probably be ok, but not great.

You mean you don't want IBIS? I have a feeling its going to be absent.

That zoom rocker is interesting too. Wonder if that will allow digital zoom a la Sony clear image zoom.

Its looking pretty good, very cool they kept the lock screw mount from the rest of the C line.

Guess we know for sure it does stills. Looking more & more like a R5C II in a FX type body.

Lots of vents: front, side & rear.. Now all we need is the specs!

9 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Anything is possible, of course, and I have absolutely no insight beyond rumors, but it still seems a little weird to me.  It should be a lot less computationally expensive to handle QB readout (I think this might even be done by circuitry in the sensor itself) than to take a 7K image and downsample it to 6K at high quality.  Seems like it'd be a pretty big hit on battery life and heat.  Good thing it's rumored to have a fan!

Although wasn't there recently a camera that came out and still overheated, even though it had a fan?  Maybe Canon's management saw that and got upset that somebody invented a hammer that they never even imagined and they instantly put their best people on it.  😉

Downsampling 7K to 6K isn’t crazy just a bit more pixels than 6K itself, easily handled by a modern DIGIC processor plus cooling. The FX2 does 7K to 4K downsampling in similar form factor and has like 13 hours of recording time. Canon doesn’t mess around with their cinema line; that’s the whole point of going that route vs their hybrid cameras. I doubt heat management will be an issue. Battery life wise I'd assume it uses the new R5ii batteries that pretty much remedied the R5C battery life issues.

2 minutes ago, Ty Harper said:

Well bcuz it would join the R5C as being the only two cams in Canon's cinema line to offer video and photo features - which is basically what a cam needs to offer to be considered hybrid, no? But also, as someone who has two R5Cs I wouldn't be interested in it if it didn't offer video/photo capabilities. 

R5C as its name and form factor suggest is a true hybrid. Not sure C50 is. Could be wrong of course but I have a feeling the stills side is going to be very limited, not to cannibalise R line.. or they could go the FX2 route which definitely cannibalises A7IV. 

8 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Sure, but if it's not at all hybrid, it's kind of a weird decision to put in a 7K sensor and downsample from it vs just using a native 6K sensor.  It's not to say that they wouldn't, just that it'd be a little weird.

Similarly, the A7SIII/FX3 are both 12 megapixel stills cameras.  While you can find some stills photographers who don't mind 24, a lot more who are OK with 33, and the vast majority are OK with 45.  You're really not going to find many who will accept 12.

Don't forget the A7SIII/FX3 is actually a 48MP quad-bayer sensor binned to 12MP for increased low light and low rolling shutter. Canon could be up to a similar trick here.

How is this marketed as a hybrid when its C line and the teaser today show it on sticks with a top handle on a film set? For all we know this won't even do stills like all the other Cxx/Cxxx. That would be ultimate cripple hammer lol.

This is clearly an FX3 competitor and the FX3 isn't much of a hybrid. It can take stills but it's cumbersome compared to the A7Siii. The absence of an EVF and possibly mech shutter will damper most serious photogs. Another thing to consider is the absence of IBIS, that would be a big mistake imo but Canon took it off the R5C and no C line camera has it. 

Also just saw the teaser on Instagram, it adds "Open your World" another hint towards open gate!

R5II is still mainly a photography camera with its 45MP, ergonomics and eye-AF control EVF. It has great video specs but no fan, line skipped 4K60p.. I'd imagine the C50 would have limited stills, maybe e-shutter only, no EVF, cine OS.. not to cannibalise R5ii.

pretty sure its fixed.. a la FX3.

Multi aspect ratio delivery is increasingly common so open gate would be a god send not to mention it opens up anamorphic for higher end cine duties.

55 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

Edit: Or--and I'm really stretching here--that handle is detachable. Which would be really cool and I would take back all of my snide categorization criticisms.

Of course its detachable..

Open Gate alone is a major game changer. 6K RAW / 32MP stills make it a serious upgrade for hybrid duties. 

Now stuff like triple-base ISO / DGO sensor & NDs would make it epic but I still doubt that'll happen.

That said if you're happy with FX3 or locked into Sony, see this as more pressure on them to up the ante on FX3 II.

Considering the rumored specs there is no way it was going to be R50V size!

The XLR top handle aligns with the leaked info:

Compact Box-Style Design: Aluminium alloy body construction, weather-sealed; active cooling fan for unlimited recording; weight ~650g (body only); RF mount with EF adapter support. TBA: Optional electronic viewfinder (EVF) attachment (5.76M-dot OLED); 3.2-inch vari-angle touchscreen LCD (2.1M-dot).  

Ports and Storage: Dual card slots (CFexpress Type B + SD UHS-II); full-size HDMI 2.1; USB-C 3.2; XLR audio inputs via optional top handle; Wi-Fi 6E, Bluetooth 5.3; Ethernet via adapter. 

55 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Doesn't seem right to me.

650g with internal ND mechanics and IBIS, with a full frame sensor?

I don't think that's realistic.

 

What if it's an e-ND like FS5? That would make it very light. The FX2 adds an oversized EVF to the FX body and manages 594g. I think it's doable but I also think those specs are a little ambitious and probably erroneous.