Django

Ok... i'm going to go on a PS4 forum now to talk about how the Sega Dreamcast was the best gaming system ever made! Have a good day  

On 4/2/2019 at 10:47 AM, Kisaha said:

I am just saying you do not have to go to great extents to "defend" these cameras because you are loosing "credibility".

We all agree that modern cameras are good enough for most things, trying to stretch your (ours) logic to make it seem better than it is, is a futile excersice to abnormality.

These 2 R cameras are their worst in class. Be happy using them, but there are better solutions out there for almost everyone.

I own already a camera with better ergononics, better menu system, un breakable top screen, Fn functions on lenses and already amazing color science, and it is called NX1..but that was 5 years ago..

It's kind of ironic you state that about me when you yourself have been hyping to death on every post occasion... a dead camera system! 

I could just as well say to you: Be happy using it, but there are better solutions out there for almost everyone. I mean when is the last time i saw a NX  shooter in the wild? Oh yeah: Never.

But see, just like you with NX1, for my personal use Canon is the better system. Of course a Sony / Panasonic / Nikon user will tell you the same thing about their systems.

Its the way the world works, we have different preferences. What I find annoying/sad is when people feel the need to put down others for their preferred choices.

You don't see me in Sony threads posting memes, bashing users or saying how far behind their non weather-sealed, 100mb Long-GOP codec, 8-bit out, zombie color MILC's are.

That would be considered trolling. Yet when that happens in a Canon thread, it's accepted as normal behaviour... go figure.

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Hype, much? It's a grip, and quite a normal one. Nothing outstanding. Other mirrorless cameras have more comfortable or larger ones, and sometimes both at the same time. Nothing about the EOS R grip is special or amazing. Flip screen outstanding? What's different about it vs the GH5's screen?

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Sure GH5 has a nice flip out screen. However no FF MILC aside from EOS R/RP  seem to have chosen to go that route.

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

There's only three. Screen / menus / control ring. Have we forgotten something more important... Hmm, let's see.... Full frame no crop 4K perhaps. How about a sensor that is this year's technology not 2014's.... Maybe an IBIS system of some sort like all the competition has already... X-H1 (Fuji), Z6 (Nikon), A7 III (Sony), GH5 (Panasonic), E-M1 II / X (Olympus) but oh no, not Canon! Because they are unique and special and wonderful all on their own island (Hawaii)

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Canon have been lagging behind in sensor & IBIS tech. it's no secret. You'll be happy to know (or not) they do plan on bringing IBIS.. probably on their upcoming pro body.

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Says hates mode dials... Says how much like modes.

 

Yup i hate mode dials will all those useless mode positions i never use, much prefer direct access to custom or AV via mode button. just like on pro Nikon bodies or 1DX series.

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Ah the vertical grip for portrait aspect ratio shoots, always a useful filmmaking tool!

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You do realize it's also used as a photography tool right?  

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

I tried to stay out of this conversation this time but it just amazes me of how much effort Canon sympathizers have to put to make a lesser - and very expensive - camera seem like an amazing top choice when clearly is not.

 

..And I'm amazed by the backlash against anybody that is ok shooting a Canon camera.. 

Nobody ever claimed it was the best camera out there.. I even specifically said if you are a 4K only shooter, it is probably among the worst.

But yes some people may use it mainly as a FF photography tool, others may shoot FF HD,  4K on gimbals/sticks, or as a B-cam to a 1DX2/C100/200..etc

Yes these cases do exist, and for those who use it like that, its a logical choice. Now do I wish it had a global shutter with 10-bit 4:2:2 internal and 4K120p? 

Sure but it doesn't so you kinda work around it.. the ergonomics, color science, codec, AF, lens lineup are usually what draw people to Canon in the first place.

The limitations of EOS R have been spoken to death since launch, I don't really understand the need to repeat them ad nauseam every other post of any Canon related news.

Its like Groundhog Day... can't we ever try and focus on anything positive around here? External raw is the topic of the day.. 

2 hours ago, Jrteh said:

On the other hand. I do agreed with andrew.  The design of eos r  is not people-oriented and  ergonomics 

 

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Let's break it down.. on the plus side he admits:

"the grip is the best i've seen on MILC" "the flip screen is outstanding" "touchscreen / menu system is amazing" "lens control ring is smart, others need to do this".

Those four alone are really important for ergonomics IMO. 

The rest is subjective towards your way of shooting. Personally, I hate mode dials. Much rather have the 3 custom still modes + 3 custom movie modes only possible with EOS R paradigm.

His issues with the top dials could be dealt with the game-changing FV mode (no more Mf-N presses needed).

Touch AF point selection? I'm left-eye dominant as he is, i don't understand what his problem is with using your left thumb? this frees up my right thumb for other things like BBF.

The missing thumb wheel. Touché, I miss that one too.

He then compares it to the Z.. great interface there as well no doubt.. but one thing he doesn't touch upon, is the optional vertical grip which is mandatory for my style of shooting.

Nikon dropped the ball hard here with no bottom contacts allowing vertical grip shoot. This was actually a pretty big deal breaker for me personally.

25 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

 

You were both a big fan of the R until now, bit of a u-turn if you ask me.

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...what u-turn? I'm still a fan of the R (I just don't own any RF glass). it's kind of sad being attacked for that.

 I was wrong about the front moving element on the 50RF, i fessed up to it. let's move on..

Yeah the price, size & weight is what immediately put me off (vs the EF version). i won't be buying any big expensive RF glass until pro body shows up.

RF 35mm is still on my radar though, despite the moving front element. It's small, light, fast enough & has IS & macro. all for under $500. not bad.

FYI i tried out the lens at a busy EOS R launch event 8 months ago..  and lost interest rather quickly. it's not like I was doing a pro review either (unlike Ken Rockwell, shame on him now). If you feel so strongly about it, post a review on the front page, maybe Canon will listen. Me, i vote with my wallet and move on..

34 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Another FHD shooter. Not too demanding on the technology are you?

 

Lol.. talk to my clients (or don't actually!) 4K just hasn't been serious enough of a demand to yet retire my C100 & EOS R.

That combo still delivers excellent results.. although i will surely upgrade to C200 soon (especially if the 10-bit internal codec rumour is true)

Obviously i do shoot commercial projects in 4K with A73/FS7 etc... so no I'm not exactly a full-time "FHD shooter".. but even then it does usually end up in a 1080p timeline anyways.

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Proof enough?

Yup.. guess i didn't pay close attention to that when i tried it (had the sun hood on). 

I passed on that lens anyways.. way too heavy/expensive (35mm 1.8 Macro the only RF on my radar).

Yeah it's kind of tiring defending why the camera works best for me even if I understand why it doesn't for others. I say it time again different strokes for different folks..

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

It is not internal focus. I have the lens. You don't. If you had even even used one, you'll see (and hear) the grinding, heavy front element moving significantly forth and back as it focuses and you can even feel the weight of the glass shifting forward and backwards as you go about shooting.

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Not only have I used it but I have footage I shot with it right here on my computer and i'm not hearing any 'grinding' ? maybe you got a bad copy?

A quick look on KR's review and it also states: 

Autofocus

USM ultrasonic motor.

Internal focus; no external movement as focused, so no air or dust is sucked in.

Noise and Vibration

It makes the usual quiet sliding sounds as it focuses.

https://kenrockwell.com/canon/eos-r/lenses/50mm-f12.htm

?

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So you're saying it's good for an extremely limited range of filmmaking then.

I mostly shoot FHD with the camera so RS isn't a problem for me no matter the shooting style..

I'm not into very dynamic action shots anyways but when I do switch to 4K i just make sure I'm extra steady (and avoid trains!).

Anyways, like I said if you are a 4K only shooter this camera probably isn't going to be top of the list (more like bottom). No argument there.

I see it as a great FF stills / FHD video MILC with bonus crippled 4K. Also a good B-cam to a C-line cam.

I'm looking forward to RAW external, especially if they allow FHD Raw as I miss Canon RAW IQ from my 5D3 ML days..

I respectfully disagree with Andrew.. especially ergonomics, reliability & ease of use.

Switching between stills and video couldn't be easier: just press the video record button.

Top LCD a weak spot? how so? DSLRs have used them for decades with no particular issue..

Btw the RF 50mm F1.2  focuses internally, it doesn't have external focus movement.

The 4K crop & RS do suck. That said for shooting interviews or even narrative static B-cam shots on sticks I don't see it as an issue.

EIS on level 1 doesn't have any warping and in combination with lens stab pretty much gives 5-axis control.

Now I'm not saying EOS R is perfect or the best camera out there, in fact for FF 4K or HFR shooters it's straight up lame.

But again I find ergonomics, reliability & ease of use definitely strong points compared to my experience with Sony, Fuji & Nikon.

I also fail to see how the EM1X could be considered a superior hybrid, especially on the photo / lens side.

Never say never.. EOS R can already do 10-bit 4:2:2 external 4K, something even the C200 can't currently do.

It makes total sense to now give C200 10-bit 4:2:2 internal (especially since C300 III is soon upon us) and EOS-R external raw to counter Nikon.

Besides Canon strategy with mirrorless is for them to be complimentary B-cams to DSLR/Cine lines, they aren't in direct competition.

Raw internal on EOS R won't happen.. even Raw Lite on C200 is CFast only. 

ProRes Raw externally via Atomos, that would be best shot. 

However since RawLite has been available since C200 release this sounds like nothing new being presented. Probably just a tweet to engage..

It isn't just about 10-bit 4:2:2, you need an external recorder to get any kind of log period with the Z's. As he points out with no internal rec709 or specific gamma profiles it's not really possible to paint in camera either. The other caveats he brings up are also quite jarring.. no metering for video?! aliasing/moire in N-log. Crop when shooting 10-bit..etc

3 hours ago, jpfilmz said:

I've been really wondering lately.....where exactly is all this 4k/8k high resolution stuff supposed to be consumed?  Seriously there are not many places at all for it.  With mobile taking over everything thing I'm starting to feel we are wasting time chasing higher resolutions.

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Japan. NHK started broadcasting in 8K. They plan on promoting it to the rest of the world during Tokyo 2020 olympics which of course will be the occasion for Japan to showcase their ongoing tech innovation.

Mobile is big; but big sporting events, Hollywood releases etc still have days left on the bigger screen imo.

8K will also allow you to crop for 4K/2K. Biggest bottleneck right now is post computer power and camera storage space.

I'd pick the R over RP just for battery life alone.. I just hate stressing over batteries on a job and with the R power grip I can go all day.

In other news, the drop-in ND adapter is finally out and reviewed:

Yeah seems like a classic case of form over function !

38 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Not only theirs... ; ) Mine and many others.

In essence, photography is shutter, ASA, ISO, whatever, that is, sensitivity and aperture. What else?

Maybe AF and monitoring features assist.

Other than that, it is much... LESS

...pretty BS for geeks (not for shooters) to my book : -)

Yes I adhere to that philosophy too until.. less is less.. 

the Q2 actually went a step back and removed ISO (and delete) button from the original Q:

The top also sees the movie record button & drive mode removed:

I get what Leica is going for with this streamlining, and it is refreshing especially on something as 'pure' as the M line.

For the Q, seeing it is more of a hybrid and indeed has some advanced AF modes, an extra back button, joystick & ISO dial wouldn't hurt.

Basically, I'm not sure the ergonomics have been improved here but I could be wrong (only spent a short time with the camera).

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I was quite interested in what Hugh Brownstone had to say here about the rolling shutter performance....

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Yes it is interesting.. except i haven't got a clue what he means by mechanical vs electronic shutter.. for video???

Well I had a go with a unit yesterday.. and the output kinda blew my socks off!

The 80mb DNG / 300mb TIFF files are simply glorious. The 47MP sensor paired with that 28mm Summilux lens is a match made in heaven.

Build quality is very nice.. but not M series nice. Lens felt a little plasticky. I was also kind of disappointed to find out it is focus by wire albeit with a pretty mechanical feel.

Ergonomics are kind of hit & miss. On the hand I miss a lot of the buttons/dials I'm accustomed to, on the other hand 'less is more' is kind of the Leica philosophy.

Video wise.. the DCI 4K looks really nice. Clean sharp image at 28mm & 35mm crop. At 50mm crop you start to see some aliasing and at 75mm IQ suffers a lot.

Couldn't figure out how to change the shutter speed which was stuck at 1/100th. Also ISO seems locked on auto. Not sure if that was user error or if video just doesn't offer much manual control.

Overall this camera is a compact beauty and delivers some of the nicest stills I've ever experienced. The Leica color science & lens rendering is probably my all-time favorite in a digital camera.

The 28mm with the crop modes is incredibly versatile. I think I could use this fixed-lens camera for 90% of my needs.

Now yes a Z7 + 28mm Zeiss OTUS would probably give similar/better results but that's $8.5K vs. $5K.. and a different type of experience.

I think this camera will be a hit for Leica, the 30 copies at my local store sold out on the first day!

Yeah well either way all I'm saying is there is a certain peace of mind when buying a Leica product (real Leica not Panny rebranded). 

Here in the Paris store, there is a Leica white coat lab technician in plain view working at his station around the clock.

Go to Canon/Nikon you get a ticket cue and your gear gets shipped out god knows where for how long.

Sony won't even bother to fix your camera. If you're out of warranty it's straight to the bin! ?

They have parts that come from various locations such as obviously the camera sensors which are not in-house.

Final assembly & quality control is what is the most important. There is no actual 'manufacturing line' as final testing & assembly is done on individual workstations.

The thoroughness performed by Leica at this stage is second to none and explains part of the price. Not unlike what certain swiss-made watch manufacturers have going on.

Here is a recent and thorough article about what goes on exactly in those German labs: MAKING CAMERAS AND LENSES THE LEICA WAY

Btw, that takes nothing away from what I'm sure is a top-notch facility in Portugal and what surely makes repair parts easy to source.

I'm still traumatised by the 3-month delay it took Nikon to source & ship my faulty shutter from China on a brand new D750.. 

1 hour ago, Emanuel said:

Germany? I don't think so...

https://leica.pt/?lang=en

German Design, made in Portugal... About 40 kms away of where I am now : -)

 

It's my understanding subassembly and some machining is done there but most parts as well as final testing & assembly is done by hand at the Wetzlar facility:

Leica Q assembly line

25 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

What are you talking about? @DjangoDoesn’t look better than any of the competent full frame mirrorless cameras today. I see blown out hightlights, micro jitters and a fixed focal length. For stills yes maybe it’s worth the price, for video it’s a fucking joke.

lol right cuz blown highlights & micro jitters are camera flaws not operator related..

i've said multiple times already that video is not the main attraction here, and merely a bonus. this camera also isn't competing with a 1DX2, XT3 or A73. it's a high-end street/travel compact camera. that said the SOOC DCI 4K / 120fps FDH IQ, leica color science, low RS & sharpness of that summilux lens make it a lot worthier than most cameras in its category (i.e X100/RX/GR series) imo. The 35mm/50mm/75mm crop modes apparently also carry over to video, which i find pretty unique & interesting for quick on the go prime focal value changes.

@Anaconda_ pretty sure that has more to do with the lighting and dudes oily skin from singapore's heat/humidity.

this other review was filmed on a sony A6500, when the Q2 footage kicks in (2:00) the clarity, tonality & detail makes the sony IQ look like a cheap mushy yellow tint mess:

The upcoming Zeiss ZX1 will be its main competitor imo but yeah a 35mm summicron/summilux would have been a slam dunk for me too.

That said the 28mm actually makes a lot of sense if you consider the resolution and crop modes. Essentially giving you a 28-75mm focal range. I also love how the crop modes gives you frame overlays (like on classic M series) and not actual crop like all other cameras do it. Perfect for 'see the subject before he enters the frame' type street photography.

As for video, again it's a nice bonus.  I actually like the DCI 4K IQ I'm seeing from the following review (3:20) and the 120fps FHD seems pretty sharp & clear of artefacts too:

Manual focusing for video should be a treat as well considering it's no fly by wire focusing like let's say on Fujis / Nikon Z etc.. so extra credit there too!

 An S1R + Sigma 28mm F1.4 will run you the same price.

A Nikon Z7 + FTZ + 28mm F1.4 will cost you a grand extra.. and won’t be nearly as compact

Apple & oranges I know when it comes to functionality but those 3 cameras all pretty much share the same sensor so in that regard the Q2 isn’t really that expensive.

M series yeah you may have a point with the RR/Bentley reference

Yeah i've got no illusions about the Q not being in M series category (and part of me still really wants a real M rangefinder) but the body is made in germany. it's not a rebranded panasonic. The specs are pretty cool.. the Q2 now has the highest resolution in a Leica ever and the clever crop modes (35mm, 50mm & now 75mm) make even more sense. Closest thing to a medium format Leica imo. I've been playing with some DNG samples and I gotta say I'm quite surprised by the DR/recovery. Base ISO of 50 is also pretty damn sweet.

DCI4K video is the cherry on top.. not the main attraction of course.. more of a bonus really. But it'll be interesting to see the IQ..

I just might pull the trigger on this one (not been this excited about a Leica in a while). I just need to stay away from the M series when visiting the store..