Django

1 hour ago, kaylee said:

@mercer lolol

i was thinking tho, i have no idea what still photographers talk about, but do they like the R system? are they into it? like, on the forums?

seems like a tough sell?? if i just shot stills and had a bunch of EF glass... why would i be interested in this again? cuz its so small and lightweight to go with my 200-400mm lens?

Do we really need to remind the advantages of MILC vs DSLR? EVF/size/weight being the most obvious.. 

5.6K AF points covering 90% of the sensor being another reason..

The Vari-ND and Control-ring adapters are also a good way of breathing fresh air into your legacy EF lens collection.

Also don't forget 5 new innovative RF L lenses are also being announced tomorrow (well 6 with the 85mm F1.4 DS).

In only 4 months Canon will have built a full pro lens lineup that actually surpasses it's EF L counterparts. 

Can't say as much about Nikon with it's boring & slow F4 zoom lenses..

Personally, as an EOS R owner, I have no hard feeling towards RP. It'll be a mirrorless 6D2 that shoots 4K.

I'm actually hoping the crop factor & RS will reduce, we all wanna see Canon achieve that.

Nokishita has added 4K to the specs:

EOS RP

26.2 Million Pixels Full Size Sensor

Dual pixel CMOS AF

DIGIC 8

4K video

Continuous shooting performance: 5 frames / sec

ISO sensitivity: 100 to 40000 (equivalent to extended ISO: 50, 51200, 102400)

Organic EL EVF

3.0 type touch panel variable angle liquid crystal

Dual Sensing IS

DLO in camera, RAW development in camera, C-RAW compatible

Size: 132.5 x 85.0 x 70.0 mm

Weight: Approximately 440 g (body only), about 485 g (including batteries?)

Kit lens: RF24 - 105 mm F4L IS USM (domestically RF 35 mm F 1.8 macro IS STM)

EOS RP + EG-E1 extension grip

Minor Firmware update but seems to address the various banding/bugs case issues @Snowbro has been complaining about:

Firmware Version 1.1.0 incorporates the following enhancements and fixes. 
1. Support for "continuous shooting" is available when "silent shutter" has been enabled.
2. Corrects a phenomenon in which an error may occur if there is a large number of files in a specific format on the memory card.
3. Corrects a phenomenon in which an error may occur when silent shutter has been enabled.
4. Corrects a phenomenon in which horizontal linear noise may occur when using specific lenses together with certain recording image quality settings.
5. Corrects a phenomenon in which the information displayed in the viewfinder may become abnormal. 

EOS R Firmware Version 1.1.0
 

This topic has already been covered here. A73 may rank #1 in color accuracy, Sony is often considered last position as far as overall color science appeal (Venice excluded).

XT3 also ranks #1 in accuracy but offers some of the most pleasing color sciences imo as they are based on actual film stock (Eterna being my personal favorite).

EOS R also gives you the choice in between "classic" EOS color science & "neutral" a more Alexa like color matrix.

Of course this is all subjective. After all some people love shooting black & white. How is that for color accuracy?

I want my exposure metering & WB to be accurate. Color is a different matter. I'll shoot in neutral profile or even log if i want the least color science influence.

That test page also feels somewhat inaccurate/incomplete, as we know Sony AWB can fall apart under mixed lighting & XT3 can have weird color shifts when shooting Log.

APS-C = Super35. 4k60p on XT3 is 1.67x 1.71x so yeah closer to Super35 than to FF.

4 hours ago, jbCinC_12 said:

Thanks.  So that's almost full-frame, be it an Academy ratio size sensor (ASP-C).  

No, the crop is obviously added on top of the native sensor size so it’s 1.17x + 1.5x (APS-C) .

That’s nowhere near FF..

8 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Yeah but most of that stuff isn't really tech advancement, just stuff they left out of the 1DX2 presumably to protect their cine line or maybe because its Canon. Again Canon just feels behind, 6 years ago Sony was doing mirrorless full frame, Canon just released a mirrorless full frame body, and it can't do full frame 4k. 

2

Indeed, Canon only entered the mirrorless FF market 3.5 months ago.. Give them a year or two. Lens lineup is already looking strong. Next-gen should do FF 4K. 

Sony also protects their Cine line btw. Why do you think they cap all their Alpha codecs at 8-bit 100mbs XAVC-S?

Quote

Panasonic generally updates all of their bodies a new GH, G, and GX and when you look from Camera to camera you generally see pretty large advancements all across the board. I don't that is seen as much with Canon. Same with Sony people like how they just throw top of the line AF in a $900 body.

 

Sony put a 4-year-old (A6300) sensor in their new A6400. It still has the same abysmal RS, still no headphone jack, same weak ergos. 

All they did is update the AF & put that weird looking flip-up screen.

IF anything they pulled a major Canon on this one..

Quote

True although I think we all know Sony will soon release a body that will output 10bit (likely two bodies). 

Soon? At Photokina, Sony admitted going back to the drawing boards for A7S3 and that it will take much longer than expected to release.

This seems confirmed with the big firmware update for A73/A9. They are going to milk those cameras for another 12-18 months imo.

5 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

The thing is you'd expect high end from years ago to be the current standard.

 

No not really. 1DX2 is still Canon's flagship pro camera body today. Why would they put those specs on a mid-range camera costing a third of its price?

Furthermore, 1DX2 is above-all an action/sports photography camera. To achieve its FPS etc it uses a 20MP sensor + 2 Digic processors.

Those specs happened to serve it's video side well, but there is again no reason EOS R should be having those specs.

Just like Z6/Z7 are D750/D850 mirrorless versions & don't compete with the 20MP Nikon D5 that came out same year as 1DX2.

All that being said EOS R does trump 1DX2 in a few video areas: it has C-log, Peaking, Focus guides, a more efficient codec & 10-bit out.

3 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Here's what I don't get, they have better sensors, the 1Dx mk2. Why can't their current gen be at least on par in some ways to their older high end cameras.

Because EOS R isn't considered a high-end cam, it's a mirrorless version of the 5D4. Canon's all-rounder. EOS RP will be the 6D2 version. And the pro EOS R(X?) will indeed be closer to 1DX2.

Also, it isn't just about the sensor, 1DX2 has dual DIGIC processors inside.

3 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

I guess this was my question from earlier in the thread. What does RF bring that EF didn't?

 

Bigger mount, less flange distance = better optics. Extra contacts allowing dual IS communication, extra lens correction..etc,  new lens ring control.

The size difference on the 70-200mm speaks volumes; going from this:

To this:

That one alone is going to be a game-changer after the pro body drops..

Every camera company segments their products. Even Panasonic who seem to always get a free pass around here are holding back video features on S1 to protect their GH series.

That said I don’t believe Canon are intentionally crippling their cameras on the 4K crop or RS level. It’s just the best their current sensors can currently do.

The real innovation for now in the EOS mirrorless system comes from the new mount & RF Lens design.

3 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

Is canon somehow the only major camera manufacturer who has not discovered the technology to make full frame 4k? Its hard to imagine, but the equally perplexing alternative is they slapped thousands of people in the face by witholding it.

Canon is the only major camera manufacturer that still develops its own sensors in-house. Just about every other camera brand goes to Sony, who have cutting-edge sensor technology.

So yes, Canon are behind in sensor tech which explains the recycling of old sensors in their current mirrorless cameras.

They have acknowledged the 4K crop limitation and are said to be actively working on it. 

We’re all hoping the new sensors will appear on the upcoming pro model later this year (1DX2 already being the Canon camera with the least crop & RS in 4K).

2 hours ago, heart0less said:

I just didn't feel any chemistry with 5D2. 
 

Considering that I mainly take photos (video stands for maybe 20% of my hobby), I realized my relationship with 5D2 may prove to be a bit troublesome.

Decided to let this one go and look for some all-rounder in similar (~500$) price.

 

For someone mainly taking photos, the 5D2 (or even 5D1) at sub-$500 is imo one of the best deals as it gives you access to full frame, great color science, decent AF as well as FF FHD & FF Raw video as a bonus.

That said, if it didn't click with you then yeah perhaps move on. it's a big old clunky camera by today's standards. maybe try mirrorless. you can adapt Canon glass to most mounts out there..

I think Snowbro got a lemon, I’ve had EOS R since day one and have travelled with it across six countries already with zero bugs or freezes. Banding is also a total non issue imo: 

https://***URL removed***/forums/post/61799696

The camera has its well documented issues & limitations, namely poor RS & a massive 4K crop but other than that i find it’s an ace mirrorless cam for stills & video.

UI/Ergonomics are also excellent imo, if balance or handling with big lenses is an issue just add the vertical grip.

Obviously if you compare it to a $6K 1DX2 it may fall short in certain areas.

As for EF vs RF, clearly the new mount allows for superior optics design but also the new electronic contacts allow the configurable electronic ring control and two-way communication for enhanced lens IS. Even more functionality is expected in the future.

All this comes at a price though and with only EOS R/RP for bodies it’s a questionable investment at the moment for those invested in the full ecosystem range (EF based DSLRS & C line).

Also the upcoming Vari-ND adapter favors even more the use of adapted EF glass on EOS R for video.

EF still has a few years left ahead and even when Canon will have developed a full range of RF bodies & lenses, that will only mean cheaper second hand EF glass.

Another thing they may do is 4K without ALL-I codec & no C-log / 10bit out. DPAF really should remain. It's Canons crown jewel..

I know its Canon but it does sound rather goofy to release a non 4K mirrorless in 2019. Especially considering the $600 M50 does 4K.

Yeah 4K with no DPAF sounds like a Canon thing they would do!

That's the million dollar question, will Canon go the lazy route and just spit out a repackaged 6D2 (most likely scenario) or will they surprise us with that rumored 1.5x 4K crop and C-Log ?

Here it is..

26.2 Million Pixels Full Size Sensor

Dual pixel CMOS AF

DIGIC 8

Continuous shooting performance: 5 frames / sec

ISO sensitivity: 100 to 40000 (equivalent to extended ISO: 50, 51200, 102400)

Organic EL EVF

3.0 type touch panel variable angle liquid crystal

Dual Sensing IS

DLO in camera, RAW development in camera, C-RAW compatible

Size: 132.5 x 85.0 x 70.0 mm

Weight: Approximately 440 g (body only), about 485 g (including batteries?)

Kit lens: RF 24 – 105 mm F 4 L IS USM

3 hours ago, ignacy matuszewski said:

I've heard that EOS R is good 1080 camera, but isn't it simply 5D4 without OVF?

 

Watch the video above. They share the same sensor but everything else is pretty much improved. 

Also keep in mind Canon will be announcing the EOS RP next week.

If the latest rumors are true, brand new 24MP sensor and video specs might even be better than EOS R.. for $1300.

1 hour ago, DBounce said:

Have you noticed anything that would deter you from using legacy glass on the R mount? Honestly of the lenses I own the difference is near enough as makes no difference. 

Deter me probably not.. but again i've definitely noticed some differences in loudness, speed & smoothness of the AF especially with fast USM glass (F1.2/1.4).

The difference becomes more important when shooting stills imo, as all the AF points on EOS R are horizontal line type and not line & cross types like on DSLRs. (same on Z6/Z7 btw). in certain low contrast situations, it can become a real problem and i already got the AF fail red box on EOS R while my 5D nailed the shot instantaneously. this is why for me at this point mirrorless isn't yet on par with DSLRs in the most demanding of situations..

53 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

There are a few NANO-USM EF-S lenses that are the fastest and most reliable focusing Canon lenses ever build. That is why, while I do not own a Canon camera, I have purchased the Nano 18-135 to use when renting C100mkII, or others. 

a few? i've only heard of that 18-135mm & a 70-300mm EF. personally, I'm excited about the upcoming 5 new L series Nano-USM RF lenses to add to the 3 current ones.

51 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

So in general the older mount lenses perform just as good?

It isn't really that simple.

Canon uses two types of lens motors STM & USM. 

On legacy EF glass, STM will give smoother & more silent AF results for video.

With RF USM they use a new nano-USM tech that gives STM like smooth & silent video AF performance. 

Now from my legacy glass adapted on EOS R experience, USM EF glass is louder & a bit less responsive than on a Canon DSLR. (YMMV depending on lens).

STM EF is about the same.

Yeah but the R uses a 2.5 year old 30MP sensor.

15 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

I shoot pro wrestling with the GH5 and while there is some RS no one really notices it. It doesn't bother me at all. 

I think I'd rip my hair out though if I was shooting with a Sony camera! 

Yeah sorry I meant out of the big sensor cameras (Super35 and above).

Its worthy to note though that I’ve never heard a viewer complain about RS. It’s only to us camera nerds / content creators that it gets talked about..

RS on EOS R is poor in 4K.

That said if you’re shooting car chases or fight scenes RS will be an issue on most cameras (even pro cine cams unless you’re shooting an Alexa or GS camera).

I often notice RS skewing in big budget TV/Hollywood productions (just the other night watching The Sinner on a bridge shot).

RED even has an article on it:

https://support.red.com/hc/en-us/articles/236069387-8K-Sensors-and-Rolling-Shutter-Skew-Effects

They also suggest reducing the resolution to counter the issue.

I do this all the time on EOS R, mainly to get FF shots (you can easily switch from FHD to 4K with custom movie settings) but also to combat RS.

I just know when I’m in 4K to slow down camera movements.

 It’s far from ideal, it’s clearly a workaround the 4K crop & RS.

Hopefully EOS RP’s 24MP sensor will have similar or better RS performance to other 24MP cameras (A7III/Z6) as it probably won’t supersample. 

Just saw the new RF lenses.. expensive but impressive, especially these 3:

RF 15-35mm F2.8 IS (finally a wide angle zoom with IS)

then look at this bad boy:

RF 70-200 F2.8 IS 

RF85mm F1.2 

So basically state of the art top notch pro lenses & a very affordable body entry to the system. Kinda makes sense.

This makes me think we’ll be seeing the pro RX body & RF cine cam sooner than later too..

$1300 for a FF stills & Super35 4K video cam with CLog & DPAF sounds like a pretty sweet deal if true.

That totally undercuts the FF competition, and even XT3 on price alone.

Seems very unlike Canon to me, but maybe EOS R / RF lenses aren’t selling enough and with their recent expectation of the market shrinking substantially they’ve decided to get super aggressive in attempt to get max people on board their new system ?