Django

19 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I understand why a hobbyist like you would prefer Canon, or an - internet only content creator like Django, but defending the wrong choices of a manufacturer doesn't bring better cameras for all of us.

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FWIW i've done work on most platforms including big screen projects. The digital content company I'm invested in uses mostly Sony (FS7) gear these days. We rent whatever fits the budget/project. I'm not brand agnostic. That said for personal ownership, Canon does make most sense for me currently: on an ecosystem level they offer DSLR/MILC/Cine bodies, and a vast range of still/cine lenses usable across them. I wish Fuji/Nikon could do the same, maybe I would switch back to them. DPAF is also the only AF i can trust as a single operator, it's kind of a big deal to me and for sure what locked me in their system for video (most cine cams have garbage AF).  I could go on about the other subjective reasons why Canon appeals to me but you've probably already heard them all!

That being said my choice of gear and "defense" of it on these forums doesn't imply Canon is the perfect company or is beyond criticism. But I do find the vehement online bashing towards them isn't always justified and doesn't really reflect itself so much in the real world, these academy award winners being the case in point, without glorifying that too much or anything..

23 minutes ago, ade towell said:

They are horrible cameras ergonomically to set up for shoulder use, they are too high and unwieldly, the c300 II being the worst of the bunch especially with where the audio ports are.

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This guy begs to disagree..

4 out of 5 of those docus were shot on C300 II (Minding the Gap was filmed over a 12 year period starting on a 5D and ending on the C300).

While the 5D4/6D2 & EOS R/RP may have disappointed many in the video specs field, it is worth noting the C line is still going strong inside the industry.

And it's not a "snob" thing.. That would be more ARRI/RED territory..

For under $10K the C300 II is the perfect run'n'gun camera: Built like a tank, Long battery life, Dual Pixel AF (game changer for single operators), WideDR profile..

.. and it can shoot 12-bit 444 2K & 10-bit DCI 4K internally. Meaning its broadcast & cine friendly. Those are all facts, not subjective fanboyism.

Meaning that's before even considering Canon's colour science, lens selection, ergonomics, UI..etc.

Another important factor is reliability.. and Canon has some of the best pro customer service, especially right there near Hollywood with their Burbank repair facility.

So while internet trolls & spec sheet observers are quick to attack Canon on their lower-end offerings and "behind technology", many others are just busy making money & winning academy awards using their "outdated" professional gear.. Go figure!

I dunno if buying a secondhand 7-year-old FS700 + used shogun is really worth it... just to get 4K 10 bit 422.. in 2019..

At that point might as well get a Z6 + Ninja V and get access to 4K 10bit + ProRes Raw.. and enjoy a compact FF camera with IBIS, strong AF etc..

15 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

I can ask them about it. They make so many adapters its crazy. For the R and Z its over 100 different adapter combinations in the pipe so far..!
And they do crazy stuff like the CaNikon adapter for EF to Z.. say what!

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YES! Please ask them if they have or will consider FF speedboosters for EOS R in order to rid the 4K crop!

I think most EOS R video users would buy that and it could even boost some camera sales!

I have noticed the price of their speedboosters has substantially increased ($700 for those MF ones) but the quality also seems to have greatly improved in their Mk2 versions

15 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Yup, just like the one I already reviewed but with Canon Colors and crisp video instead of the imo usable, but so and so A7 HD.

I plan to do all that, just need to shoot with it for a while. I plan on bringing it to a world cup horse jumping competition, that could be fun.

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Looking on FlickR right now at those Mamiya lenses you mentioned using has got me excited at the possible rendition on a Canon, good times!  

37 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Don't know, Ive never tried the 4K setting. In FF the crop factor of the camera with the reducer is x0.7 so I guess deduct that from what ever the 4K crop is.

 

2

Haha.. LOL at you never trying 4K setting yet ? (4K crop is 1.74x btw)

You could just enable Movie crop mode in FHD to get an idea of the FoV..?  

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No its a Medium Format speedboster 

Cool, although slightly disappointed Kipon isn't making EF / Nikon F to RF speedboosters (yet?).

I guess EOS R 4K users aren't really on their radar. Would be great to get rid of that crop.

Btw, that's the Mamiya 645 speedbooster right?

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With my MF glass like the 80mm f1.9 its best described as "Epic" and with my new favorite, the 150mm f3.5 its "Pure Class"  

That does sound pretty sweet.. please make a video reviewing that configuration or at least post some pics!

Would be cool to see some video footage as well... MF lens video is still something quite rare.

26 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

 
Z Cam E2 already does this. 

 

.. not in RAW as far as i can tell.. sub-Super35 category also.

impressive little cine body though.. all these new Shenzen companies are really giving the cine market a good run for their money!

shout out to @Mattias Burling for covering the new Kipon Elegant prime lens series for RF & Z mounts:

How does the lens perform for video? is the aperture ring smooth? is there any contact info recognized by EOS R (F-stop, focal range, metering etc)?

Also is that an RF to Minolta speedbooster at 00:30 ?! How close do you get to FF in 4K when using it? What's the optical quality like?

Cool.. something in-body (a la Panasonic FZ) would be amazing though:

most surprising to me is the h265 inclusion... i guess we're at that point when mobile camera technology surpasses flagship FF cameras! 

Speaking of NDs, it still boggles my mind why no company has yet built an MILC with internal NDs (closest being Canon with the Vari-ND adapter..).

What Sony did with the FS5 mk2 is quite clever though. They included the RAW + Super Slowmo paid upgrades, added Venice color science and lowered the price to under $5K.

Once you add an atomos, the 4K IQ and HFR is pretty outstanding and unrivalled at such a price point:

I think they will be milking this camera for another year or two (or until the competition offers better).. who else even has 4K RAW 120fps on their roadmap?

Only Red currently i can think of..

FS5 mk2 is under $5K. 

It has compact modular form factor. Auto Vari-ND. 10-bit 422 FHD. And comes standard with external RAW up to 4K 120fps / 2K 240fps.

I am assuming Sony are taking a back seat right now as no other company really gives them a run for their money in that segment.

For one man band docu/short film i'd also consider C100 DPAF/Mk2. 4K S35 sensor that records in FHD, ND filters, Dual Pixel AF, XLRs, all-day battery, EF or EF-S lenses..

28 minutes ago, stefanocps said:

yes a7 iii is another option, dont know why tend to consider little all sony, there is something not reliable with them for me..don t know what..may be prices always high, lots of issues about heating that most of their camera suffer, image look great yes but seems something so delicate

A7III is cheaper than Z6 & EOS R. Their entry-level lens options are also more affordable. And overheating isn't much of an issue in their third generation bodies.

The 100mbps codec is a bit long in the tooth, color science an acquired taste, overall ergonomics and EVF/LCD aren't fantastic.

If you want most solid AF, SOOC IQ maybe also consider the new EOS RP. It's by far the cheapest FF option.

4K has a 1.6x APS-C crop which will give you more manageable DoF since that appeared to be one of your requirements.

Advice is a little all over the place. People here tend to obsess over camera bodies but my first question would be what lenses do you own?

If you are going to start over from scratch, take a closer look at the lens system offered by each option.

Nikon Z only have 3 native lenses at the moment. Also if you wanna shoot log you have to go external (at which point AF becomes unreliable).

If you are going FF mirrorless and need IBIS, i'd recommend A7III. Plenty of native lens options, great AF, internal log. It's a quite good all-rounder.

Otherwise in APS-C land: XH1 seems to tick all your boxes. The battery life is its weakest link though.

Panasonic has:

Actually, the latest Canonrumors article starts off with: We’re told to expect an “exciting” new cinema camera, possible ahead of NAB in April. 

You are right though, I don't see Canon placing a better 4K codec than the C200 inside a C100 mk3. Even 10-bit HD is a stretch. Not the Canon way. 10-bit will be external only.

Agreed but Sony also need to update their FS5 who can still only do 8-bit 420 4K at 100mbs max!

However, i doubt they will roll-out a mk3 so quickly (hasn't even been a year since mk2).

Here is my wishlist..

Canon:

The 8K C300 mk3 is already basically announced:

- The C100 mk2 is in dire need of an upgrade. a C100mk3 with 10-bit 4K 422 to SD (no CFAST raw) and pro res RAW out for $5-6K would do a killing in the cine cam market.

- Offer them in RF versions too..

Sony:

-  FS5/7 mk3 with new sensors, latest (A6400) gen AF & 10-bit XEVC codecs.

Fuji :

- A retro "digital bolex" cine cam which could be a mix design wise of:

&

- also add an MK cine prime lens trinity.

Nikon:

- Same as above (I'd really like to see smaller cine/video cams with built-in IBIS, battery/recorder options inside the pistol grip & flip out screen on the side):

Color Science is rather subjective and also relative imo to what you are shooting/look you are going for. I like Nikon CS better for landscape & fine arts. Canon more for portraits.

Shoot in RAW/Log and you can match footage most of the time anyways.

However accurate WB & exposure/metering is much more scientific and it does help when the camera does it correctly (unless you are using WB cards / light meters and doing everything manual all the time).

Highlight roll off, noise reduction & digital sharpening can also be critical in ruining shots.

Sony are probably in the best position to offer an E-ND in hopefully A7S3. They would do such a killing.

Part of me still really wants an FS5 for the Auto-ND feature & raw HFS. I feel like that camera might sort of become a hidden treasure as its value starts to plummet in the affordable range.

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

A few years ago most of the people here owned a Canon dSLR, I shot 2 hours long documentaries with a 60D back then, now, how many from the hundreds participating in this forum own a modern Canon?

If you can not see that Canon is loosing, slowly but steady, a market that owned at an absolute percentage a few years ago, then what I can say. 

1DX2 doesn't "dominates" a lot other segments. I wish we had real numbers here, but again in my working environment, people are using A7sII and GH5 cameras as productive video tools, while I haven't even seen even one 1D camera, ever. The most popular Canon for video these days (between photo/hybrids) is easily the 80D, and that says a lot about where Canon is today.

Imagine how far a competitive Canon could take our whole segment forward.

Sony, with all the mistakes they did and all the R&D they did in the backs of paying customers - with all these sub par cameras that offered until recently, did a great job for bringing cheap full frame camera to the masses.

Before the RP, you could buy a A7 or A7ii for less than middling m43 cameras. Panasonic brought great video performamce to the masses and created dependable pro video cameras (GH5/s), Samsung did their thing for a few years, Fuji is offering top APS-C performance for less $€£, Nikon is finally playing all their cards when it seemed most likely that they were destined to fold. They all trying to add something up.

I respect your opinion and the way you express yourself in this forum, by the way!

Oh yeah don't get me wrong I never claimed Canon was the popular choice for video these days.. it is clear from this forum alone that people have shifted their interests towards Panasonic, Sony, Samsung.. and more recently Fuji & Nikon.

If anything Canon seems to always disappoint the video community. I understand why, however as an actual user (one of the few perhaps around here) I try and give out my perspective as to why I've chosen to stick with them.    

In a nutshell, I guess it could be summed up to the overall ecosystem, the reliability, the ergonomics & the mojo from certain exotic lenses combined with their color science.

A fair comparison I think could be Apple (vs Android/PC). A lot of the criticism is similar as well: overpriced, old tech,  limited closed system etc..

But in actual use, sum feels greater than parts and that's all i'm really trying to say at those obsessing over charts & specs.

One thing is for sure, the competition in the FF mirrorless market is pretty fierce now and it's only going to be beneficial to the consumer.

It's no coincidence Sony announced their Dual Pixel-like AF improvements for A73/A9 or that Nikon just unveiled the details of their 12-bit RAW output (I'm hoping they take it a step further and add it internally, now that would really put the pressure on Sony/Pany/Canon).

FWIW i made decent coin doing pro work using XT2. I was able to bring that camera in parts of the world were anything more conspicuous might have gotten me in trouble.

An often underrated aspect of these Fuji's is most people take them for retro film cameras!

The only thing that's given me cold feet about XT3 is all these build quality issues. Really hope they get back to the Sendai manufacturing plant for XH2 etc..

Well actually Canon in their latest Clog color science are doing exactly that: mimecking ARRI Alexa. They're not trying to re-invent the wheel.

If Sony were to wise-up, they'd include their Venice color science in their Alpha cameras. Panasonic should do VariCam. Oh but wait, those companies don't protect their cine lines right? Only Canon does..

Again Fuji woke up to that with Eterna film simulation.

Nikon offering RAW... definitely a step in the right direction.