IronFilm

Of course got to release the BTS to their marketing video, showing the Fujfilm X-H1 rigged up to the max (ohhhh.... I spot a Roland R88! A moment of silence for his back please):

Quote

 

"The low-budget bubble has well and truly burst

 

In 2010, 63% of all films shot in the UK cost under half a million pounds. Just seven years later, that figure has plummeted to 34%. "

 

https://stephenfollows.com/big-changes-in-uk-film-production/

1 hour ago, User said:

Things still looked reasonably ok up until 2010, not so anymore. The good news is that a few years ago I caught wind that it was possible to make a decent living working as an actor playing a Christian church minister at Chinese weddings in China. I know this would be far less demanding and probably pay better than doc film. Grow a beard and get laid all the time. Develop a drug habit... start really living again. You know.

This sounds like the beginnings of a movie script. 

1 hour ago, Mattias Burling said:

And understand that the specialist isnt necessarily in higher demand than an allrounder.

Unless you're going into one of the less "sexy" areas, such as soundie or gaffer ;-)

16 minutes ago, Tim Sewell said:

I don't think it will go quite so far with video. Producing good video of something like a wedding takes a lot more concentration and effort, not to mention skill, both on the day and after it. Uncle might have a great hybrid mirrorless, but he does also want to get drunk, eat food and chase the bridesmaids - none of which activities mix at all well with shooting the wedding video.

Yup, video is greater complexity, and also takes sustained effort vs getting lucky (on the low end) with a few snaps that turn out "right".

So video is a little bit more immune to it than the stills world (plus it is happening later the tech development), but the general principle will still hold true. 

6 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

The article made no mention of any of the addons coming down in price as well. If so, expect serious compromises in build quality and performance. 

Yes, all those accessory/media costs will be key as to how low down in the market RED is reaching. 

This is one area where I really like Kinefinity, not only are their brains much cheaper, but so is everything else! (you can even use normal off the shelf SSDs)

 

6 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

$10k puts the RED in the same bracket as the Sony F5, Canon Cxx, BMD Ursa Mini Pro 4.6k, Panasonic EVA-1, etc. This is not exactly a amateur's bracket. 

Yes and no. Especially if you wait a few years for them to have price drops and enter the secondhand market. (one of the reasons why I disagree with my friend as to how quickly I reckon this will have an impact, as it takes time for new things to filter through....   few items change an industry overnight)

But I know plenty of amateurs with C100/C300/F3/URSA, I even know someone who just finished first year film school and purchased an EVA1!

Heck, even with their current high prices, here is this High Schooler who purchased a Scarlet-W (although yes, we can't call him an amateur, as he worked hard for it!):
 

5 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

IN UNEXPECTED MOVE, RED SIGNALS DEAL WITH APPLE INC. TO IMPLEMENT IN-CAMERA EMOJIS!

 

LOL! Stealing this

 

6 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

IF RED, by extension of Foxconn, produces a $10k 8k camera it's going to force Arri to do the same. This is a good thing for everyone, regardless of budget size. 

 

It won't "force" Arri to do the same. What Arri would do is 5yrs later bring out an 8K camera at twice the cost.  (just look at their 4K cameras and their costs and release dates, my prediction is not unrealistic at all, if anything it is optimistic!)

6 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

I'm not sure about this my man. I take the viewpoint that the narrative will be flipped on it's head, in terms of producers budgeting cameras for a shoot. What the production saves in costs by renting 3 cameras for the current price of one they can allocate the rest of budget towards other production costs, which as you know are many. That's a boon for a producer (looking for industry respect) and ultimately the client. Just because a client gives a film a sizeable budget, doesnt mean they want the producer to go hog wild on equipment. It's the producer's job to inform their clients and make their investment count. 

Yes, producers don't want to just "waste" money. No one does! 

But I can also see his point, about producers wanting "prestige" (or "Industry Standard" or "quality" or "proven workflow" or whatever the hell you want to call it), and if RED makes $3K cameras that could possibly potentially harm that. 

However I disagree with him about the scale of impact of this announcement, and how quickly it will happen. 

I feel the impact will be smaller than he thinks, and might take years and years to be felt. So he doesn't need to change decisions made this year (such as buying a Panasonic EVA1 or not) based on this news (then again, he does have 2x RED ONEs, so maybe at his lower end he would feel it faster and worse than someone with say a Dragon).

 

6 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

Haha, lots of shit films are shot on the most expensive Hollywood/Altantawood/Londonwood/Bollywood level cameras. Good films are the exception.?

But you're point is valid and I would add the relentless complaints about comparisions to Sony's high ISO parade. ?

Agreed! Bugs me out no end when people say "but I need that high ISO so I must buy Sony!" as if it is some kind of trump card to the discussion. 

Perhaps these poor people are just coming from a Canon T3i with a kit lens, and feel their biggest problem is poor lowlight and thus must go to the other extreme! Completely missing the point that even a Panasonic G80 with a Panasonic 25mm f1.7 would be a massive massive leap forward for lowlight over their current set up. 

And yeah, tonnes of shit films get shot on Arri/RED/etc (even worked on a few myself....) but at least the cream can still rise to the top and those brands get judged by the quality well shot films instead. But if thousands and thousands of crap films get made with $3K cameras then the crowd of crap could swallow up the exceptions.

6 hours ago, Matthew Hartman said:

Then again, $10k body only is not a cheap investment for most ppl either. Yes, it's cheaper than what the 8k Epic costs right now, but the bar is set way higher than even small profesional productions can afford to purchase outright that need to recoupe short term.

Tricky to say exactly which camera is going to get slashed in cost (and size!) by a third, will it be their top of the line camera, a mid level one... or the likes of a RED Raven? 

As if if they made a camera kinda similar to the Raven but massively cheaper, then you're looking not at a $10K camera kit but a $3K ish one. 

 

7 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

No mic jack, but sony makes shotgun mics that plug into the hotshoe. Don't know if that matters to you or not.

 

Sony's wireless (Sony UWP-D11) can also work with the smart shoe of a Sony camera. 

5 hours ago, Charlie said:

Guess what folks......I FOUND MY GH5 AND ALL MY ZEISS LENSES!!!!!! 

Here's the story.....last week I got incredibly hammered in many bars!!!!!

Been there.... done that!  :-( 

Luckily all I lost was a Panasonic GX1 + a 14mm pancake lens 

Broken a couple of Fujifilm XQ1 / XF1 point and shoot cameras as well while out drinking :-( 

If you want to predict how the video industry will go, just look at the trajectory of the stills industry. 

As there is a lot of similarities there, except they're a few years ahead of us. Because stills cameras got dirt cheap and "good enough" a lot earlier than they did for video cameras. (and I think in general stills is easier to get the hang of at the entry level, than video is, because there are less moving parts to take into consideration: audio for instance! And camera movement, etc)

The high end photographers still survive and thrive, but almost all of the low end photographers have disappeared as a viable full time career (for instance who the hell sees mall photographers now?? They're as rare as hens teeth, and likely have minimum wage casual people. Yet twenty years ago a person could have made an almost ok income from that), and the middle ground is severely gutted out as well. 

5 hours ago, mkabi said:

None of the Cameras that we usually look at have DCI 2K.... remember the Blackmagic 2.5K cinema camera... and the  cinematic IQ that was putting out?

 

Is such a small difference between 2K and 1080, wish BMPCC had 2K for instance

4 hours ago, Cinegain said:

Yeah, wish more cameras would do that. Also because you can up the framerates of non-4K-but-still-more-than-FHD-footage. Like 2K or 2.5K/100p or whatever. Or even just 60p at 2K when some cameras can't quite make 60p work at 4K. 2K or 2.5K gives you that edge and flexibility over 1080p. Though, I've been saying that for the longest time now. GoPro embraced the different resolutions, but camera manufacturers in general don't see anything between 1080p and 2160p it seems. Even Blackmagic themselves... the 2.5K was merely a happy accident or something I feel like.

yeah the 2.5K just happened probably because that was the particular sensor they could get which matched all the other specs they wanted, and didn't care so much if the resolution was a little odd ball

Am I correct to think the latest firmware update for the BMPCC is v2.1 from waaaaay back March the 5th 2015?

35 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Remember, the costs are proportional, I mean, you have the Deity to drive through your Sonosax?

Nah, I have a Sanken CS3e for a mythical future Sonosax ;-)

An Aputure Deity is just there as an emergency back up.

37 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Haha! Indeed! In true NZ logic, that is true! In pure Mediterranean logic, there is no way for someone getting any salary under the top, to really afford anything like that.

I'm sure I could afford a 633/664/etc if I really wanted to. 

Like I said, I otherwise live like Scrooge McDuck himself!

28 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Edit: I can't keep up with you! I am sure you are posting in 24 other forums the same time; while you are drinking a cup of tea!

Haha, I don't have tea! I have coffee. And yeah, am posting on a few other forums at the same time. I have a scary number of tabs open right now:



Well, not scary for me, if anything, that is on the low side for the number of tabs I have open!

Is however late over here in New Zealand, should go to sleep. But I had tomorrow's shoot cancelled a few hours ago, no need for me to get up early tomorrow now. 

28 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

There was an option in Europe, the aforementioned receiver with 2 Tx and the same mic, or another, so called, Pro version, with additional and better Sony mics (you get the cheap ones AND the expensive ones).

Oh damn, wish Sony promoted that more in more markets!

28 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

No, I didn't pay attention because I had a whole C300mkII to set up and pull razor thin focus with Zeiss primes!

Ironically the C300mk2 has the best Autofocus out of all the higher end cinema cameras!

28 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

in front of the Acropolis (the cradle of civilization!)

Am always jealous of how much history Europeans have on their doorsteps. Unlike us in comparison, we think a hundred or so year old house is "old".

To go a little off topic to the Zaxcom vs Lectrosonics court case (they haven't even decided yet where to hear the case! That decision on the location is still months away. What a waste), I read an amusing comment on jwsoundgroup:

 

Quote

Kind of funny that the company that didn't have wireless products till 2001 is suing the company the had them in 1975.

11 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

the sound man used some old Lectros and they had huge problems with interference, putting the receivers on a chair, and was going closer to the transmitter to achieve better signal. I wouldn't like to do that on a professional set (he is one of the most prominent professionals here too, very good and experienced, just with older equipment).

Do you know exactly which Lectrosonics they might have been?

12 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

The wave spectrum isn't what it used to be 20 years ago when I started working professionally in sound. I guess NZ has the least urbanization compared to Europe and U.S probably. Here, 90% of the job is done is overpopulated city scapes.

 

While it is true that most of the country is sheep (although that is changing.... the sheep are getting replaced by cows!), I do however spend 99% of my time in  a "big city": Auckland with a million people. 

13 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

then it is almost the same price as having 2 regular ones.

They don't come with receivers or lavs. So it is extra cost on top of what you'd already spend to buy two wireless kits. 

If only Sony offered a kit with one dual receiver and two transmitter then it would change substantially the maths!

15 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

I do not understand with "Expensive"

I'm more frugal than Scrooge McDuck himself. 

17 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

The price difference between those two, an hypothetical F4 competitor from Tascam/Marantz, and the new SD 600 series with wireless capabilities on board, would be something like 6.000NZ$! One will (or has to) be close to 600euros territory, and the other near 7,000 probably! 

Indeed, it will be MUCH more expensive! And there are a lot of unknown variables. 

But let's say hypothetically a few numbers to pin down this example:

Perhaps this future Tascam/Roland/Marantz product has "50% more than a F4/F8", and thus the company feels justifies also a price which is a 100% higher! (remember, neither the Tascam HS-P82 or the Roland R4 Pro was as cheap as an F8 when they first launched)

This would still be a *LOT* cheaper than a future Sound Devices 600 series product. And I could quite reasonably think this is a worth upgrade that also "saves" me a lot of money. 

Alternatively, perhaps this never happens? (again, also very likely)

When the future Sound Devices 600 series product comes out I might feel there is no other worth upgrade path for me from the F4. Well, it is either that or a similar large leap in cost to a Zaxcom/Aaton/Sonosax, or do a semi sideways slide into a F8 / MixPre6 / MixPre10T which is overall neither here or there. 

And the cost while steep, should hopefully be justifiable by that point in my career (especially when you consider the per year cost spread out over 5yrs+).

So overall at the end of the analysis, it is easy to see myself go either way.

17 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

To get a feeling about price differences in US and in this EU country that I live, MixPre 6 is 1338euros (2260NZ$) and in US it is 899$ (1230NZ$). You get the point. 

Blade your MPs/governments! They're the ones who put in place very high taxes and regulations which lead to the higher costs. 

17 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Zaxcom is even more exotic, I asked once the local dealer and he mentioned some astronomical prices, and a few months waiting for delivery.

Yeah, we have a dealer in NZ for Zaxcom, but I'm not even sure if we can go into anywhere in the country to see demo models (although I think so? But my point is, I'm not even sure!). 

Sonosax for instance only last year got a dealer in NZ, and they don't have a single SX-R4+ in stock! (the one and only in the country is owned by a friend of mine who got the local sound tech company to set themselves up as a dealer, just so that he would have somewhere local to buy it from! :-o )

9 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Speaking of Marantz getting their clunk on, I was actually quite interested in their PMD-602a to add XLR inputs to a couple of cameras.

I dunno, the Tascam DR60Dmk2 is only a teeny bit more expensive and gives you the benefits of being a recorder as well.

8 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

No, no, no! <<snip>> So if the signal is lost, is gone! I wouldn't dare to using like these for serious, pro sound work, that is why I have banned the G3s for a few years now.

I guess you believe also professionals shouldn't use Lectrosonics SR series? Hmmm

Think there is a flaw there in how it works in practice?

 

10 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

or else I would have bought 2 of those already, and set up a nice 4 ch bag!

I'd have three! If only it wasn't so darn expensive, and the fact I NEVER see  them discounted for sale secondhand :-(

 

11 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

that is why we believe that the Sony's are the best low cost option

Oh there are a few little other details as well as to why I prefer Sony wireless over Sennheiser as the low budget option.

22 minutes ago, Inazuma said:

Is that vari ND built into the sensor??!

The OPF

Had an interesting conversation today with a friend who owns 2x RED cameras, he is debating if perhaps instead of say a secondhand RED Epic that his purchase should be a Panasonic EVA1 (or something else?). 

Because his worry is that if RED moves down market to the consumer level that will harm RED's perception in the marketplace (by producers/directors/clients/etc), so thus maybe he should just go somewhere else. 

13 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Hope you make it, if they incorporated wireless build in would be close to the 10.000euro range for 4 XLR inputs.

A fully loaded Zaxcom Nomad is just over six thousand USD:

https://www.trewaudio.com/product/zaxcom-nomad-audio-mixerrecorder/

I reckon it would be cheaper than 10K euro

14 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

(taxes+custom fees).

Ways around exist ;-)

9 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

I thought you said your next recorder will be a SD 600 series one  

Probably! But it is hard to compare two different products when neither have been even announced yet! (they might not even have started development yet on them! ha)

2 hours ago, jgharding said:

After the Alexa mini came out a lot of people just stopped flying Reds on steadicam/gimabl settups overnight.

Ditto drones.

1 hour ago, jgharding said:

I think the main thing holding this back from an Arri is the same thing that stops McLaren making a competitor to the Mazda MX5, for example: the company live at the edge of top-end technology, that is what they're know for and what (in Arri's case) they dominate. They thrive in the pro sector, hold some great patents (like the dual-gain channel sensor architecture in Alexa family cameras) that set them ahead, and they would only open themselves up to un-necessary risk by producing a high-volume consumer/prosumer piece.

This is another point I should have made. 

The set of skills and expertise to manufacture and market high volume products is very different to the process of making and selling niche premium products. 

It would be a big risk trying to switch over from one area to another. 

(or you could just do a Hasselblad and simply stick your name onto an existing product)

1 hour ago, Laurier said:

Yes, but here we are talking about Foxconn, they have massive facilities and massive R&D capacities, they are more like sony or panasonic than red, arri or blackmagic .

 

Partnering with another company does substantially reduce that risk, but Foxconn makes parts and not complete products (I think? I could be wrong), and they have no marketing/distribution experience in this area. But hey, maybe that is where RED's closer alignment with Apple might come from? (using Apple to sell Ravens)

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

Though, ironically, MEGADRIVE sounds exactly like something RED would call a £100 per gig SSD product

And DREAMCAST is a fairly accurate description of some of their expected release date announcements.

hahaha! oh my, so true, on both counts

1 minute ago, Kisaha said:

At the moment Tascam is no real competition to the F4/F8, but under those and in the entry level segment, Tascam is still king. Even without color screens.

I am holding out hope that Tascam/Roland/Marantz will bring out a response to the Zoom F8/F4, as if they at is successful and a notch above then perhaps that might be my next recorder?

But I'm so happy with my F4, that I'm in no rush, can wait :-)

3 hours ago, Laurier said:

They have very good brand images

Imagine how much a premium brand's image would be harmed if a bunch of low budget idiots would start using them?

I can just imagine the complaints already:

"It has shit battery life! I had to buy these expensive V mount batteries, which didn't come with it in the box. Dodgy RED trying to upsell you on hidden costs!"
"It sucks at low light when I'm shooting outdoors at night in the forest with my Canon 18-55mm kit lens!"
"It broke my PC when I loaded these 8K files into my editor and it crashed!"
"This dumb camera doesn't have a portrait selfie mode!"
"The autofocus is hopeless, I wish had never ever brought this camera! I'm sending it back and buying a Canon Rebel"

And so on and so on and so on the reviewers, commentators, social media, and forum posts would go on and on.

Then of course would come the avalanche of dreadful awful looking footage shot with this new "premium" but affordable camera. Because their talent/knowledge/budget/experience isn't even 1% of what the camera is capable of. 

If this is allowed to carry on unchecked for too long, it would end up harming sales of their high end budget cameras as well!

So while I wish Arri would make a $3K camera, I also totally understand the reasons why they wouldn't want to do that. 

2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

The next generation of SD will be very interesting, I am not sure how accessible would be to low sound incomers like us!

Fingers crossed my next recorder will be a next generation Sound Devices 600 series recorder. 

 

2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Yes, indeed. Obviously they go after Zaxcom, which is one stop shop for professionals. Go to Zaxcom, buy everything you need, pay a significant premium for the convenience.

Significant premium? I think Zaxcom prices are quite comparable to other recorders or wireless at their level. 

2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

2.4GHz is probably the most used frequency right now.

Yup it is a mixed bag of pro / con. 

Pros: low cost (or at least I assume this is a factor for manufacturers) and no worries about if it is legal or not.
Cons: operates in potentially very congest air!

I wouldn't want to exclusively rely upon these, but if they're otherwise good, I could see a place for a few of them in my kit for flexibility. (for instance if going on a short notice overseas trip?)

2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

It seems also big and bulky 

Yeah after I posted this, I saw the video of them, and realised how chunky they look :-( 

Perhaps nearly as big as the RodeLinks? And what I hate about Rodelinks is their size!

2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Also the 2 ch function, I am sceptical, as we know, 2ch true diversity receivers, the high end of our industry, start from 2000euros and go up north really fast, and that price is for only the receiver, how good can a 400euro (together with the 2nd TX and 2nd mic!) be? I wouldn't expect such a revolution to happen so cheap.

Sony URX-P03D  is heaps cheaper than 2000 euros! Still a little on the pricey side though :-/ Otherwise I'd have already got one! Am very keen to get a couple.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1259501-REG/sony_urx_p03d_30_urx_po3d_30.html

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

@DaveAltizer Tascam all the way! Until the F series, Zoom wasn't even close to Tascam, especially for our line of work. I have used 4 such, small Tascam's through the years, and never had any problem. I would take the smaller size and weight anytime, for the job, or else I would be using a DR100mkII or III if I wanted anything bigger (and XLR).

 

Agreed! Tascam was ruling the low budget sound world for years, with almost no one else coming close (that exception being Roland). But Zoom are crushing it with their new F8/F4! 

Tascam DR-100mkIII seems a little pricey for a two channel XLR recorder, is it worth it? 

I have been thinking of the Tascam DR44WL for a little small handheld one (if one pops up on eBay dirt cheap, say low hundred bucks), although I just noticed now to my surprised it has been discontinued!  :-o I wonder why, it only came out in 2015 :-o I see also the Tascam DR22WL is gone too! (which is one I own myself) Wonder if it is because they both have WiFi and Zaxcom interfered there too??