IronFilm

9 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Unfortunately I know noone with a MixPre to test, everyone bought an F4/F8 back in the day, they are the GH5 of sound!

I'd argue it is bigger than that! They're like the 5Dmk2 of sound.

Actually, I'd argue it is even bigger than even that, it is like if a 5Dmk3/GH3 was the first HDSLR released! Imagine that world happening (rather than the GH1/5Dmk2/T2i/D90/etc instead that we got!).

13 hours ago, jonpais said:

I'm not seeing it (the end of pixel peeping days, that is). You really talk like a fanboy, and we haven't even seen footage from the camera yet. And while I very well might buy it, because I think it's probably the cat's pajamas, and I happen to like the people at BMD, I'm not about to drool over a camera that won't be released for another five or six months.

I feel even ignoring the BMPCC4K release we're still creeping near to the "beginning of the end", with cameras such as the Panasonic GH5S. (arguably some people could even say that happened years ago with the GH2/5Dmk3/etc)

Just like in the stills world, if you've got a D800 then you really can't fault the sensor performance. Instead it is all about usability/ergonomics/wifi/AF/IBIS/etc.. improvements that have came in since then, but the days of peering at test charts for of say a D300 vs D700 vs 5Dmk2 vs 50D vs etc are "over". The sensor performance from any affordable stills ILC released today in 2018 is going to be good enough, and you're better off worrying about "everything else" that it implements. 

My point is I think that day is not too far off for the video world with these affordable cameras as well, and likes of a GH5S/BMPCC4K are hinting at that day is nearing closer. 

13 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

128gb SD card OR C.Fast ------- I'll be mostly shooting ProRes, so SD is more likely, but then again buy nice or buy twice, C.Fast can handle everything, SD might struggle with RAW.

128gb USB-C thumb ------- for those times when my main card is full

I imagine for people trying to shoot with 4K on the BMPCC4K with an ultra frugal budget, that their shooting style will have a lot of similarities to the way RED ONE folks shoot (for those who don't have the SSD module, or only have a limited number of gigs on it). At least until CFast prices fall further. 

What they'll do is for the tripod shots they'll use their USB-C (just like RED ONEs using their RED-DRIVE for tripod shots) but then switch over to using their CFast card when handheld (again, just like how RED ONE owners would then switch over to CF or SSD when then going handheld). 

So long as the delay is only a few milliseconds and is consistent across all inputs, then it might not be a dealbreaker (although I could understand if it is for some people, for instance if you're using the AVX wireless which itself already has a substantial delay you might not want to add even further more on top of that). 

Anyway, let's wait and see how it is implemented. It is still early days and we know barely anything about the details of the new Zoom F8n. 

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

A bit?! Even Apple accepted H265, that means is the new standard! I consider H265 to be one of the advantages of NX cameras, and in this case, it is as well.

What I mean is although many NLEs (but not all) accept H.265, you still have most post houses who haven't dealt with it. So it is still early days. (but greatly improved since when the NX1 was released)

43 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

I will very interested if they do get around to making EF mount as he mentioned. Rokinon doesn't really have any competition right now for non-mirrorless cine lenses.

Well, not at sub $1K price points per lens.  I think in that regard Rokinons are quite unique. 

Have you used an F4/F8? Remind me again what you're using currently?

Likely the only way you can find out is by trying it yourself! Or asking the manufacturer if they're passing timecode or not. 

As I'd imagine some external recorders would still be passing the record trigger through their HDMI output, but I bet there are some recorders which could end having stripped that out in the process. 

10 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Maybe I was too harsh, the FS5mkII is a league of its own!

haha, not in a good way!

I think you're a little too harsh on the F series, I reckon they hold their own (or beat) the MixPre series (with the possible exception of limiters, but depends on how hard your style of shooting is pushing them, and depends on how much of improvement this look ahead style limiters will be). 

3 hours ago, scotchtape said:

If you are using a wireless lav, just get the Rode, Sony or Sennheiser stuff and go direct into cam. I use Sennheiser avx (lav or handheld) into a juicedlink box into gh5 unless it's a sit-down then I use the zoom h6.

In my view the Sony UWP-D11 are the "best" right now from all the "no budget wireless" (i.e. not Zaxcom/AudioLtd/Wisycom/Lectrosonics/etc).

But G3/RodeLink are ok enough if you get a screaming good deal on them secondhand. 

If I was filming with a Panasonic GH5 by myself without a sound recordist, then I'd very seriously be considering a Panasonic DMW-XLR1 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1304877-REG/panasonic_dmw_xlr1_xlr_microphone_adapter.html

Other alternative is getting something like a Tascam DR60Dmk2 or MixPre3 etc to just wear on me while running with the GH5, to then later on sync up. (as for that H4n, just do the world a favor and chuck it in the bin)

5 hours ago, jonpais said:

World's tiniest super 35mm cinema lenses? Would these interest anyone for $720 apiece? 

Rather have lenses with interchangeable mounts for DSLR and PL mount as well. 

But if going for mirrorless only mounts, it seems Veydra instead is the ones to beat. 

2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

Ofcourse, and the H265 10bit is amazing, too, and not a lot of people REALLY need raw (" For most people that is more useful than raw").

I could imagine many people preferring H265 for the much smaller 4K 10bit file sizes, while raw would be huge. 

Especially as today is now years after the NX1 release (which unfortunately was "too early") and H265 is becoming a bit more accepted in some workflows. 

Uses a portable recorder with a USB powerbank that is usually used by gamers to record their sessions, all for a total cost of under a hundred pounds. 

More info:
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/04/08/breaking-the-30-minute-video-recording-limit-without-breaking-the-bank.aspx/

(you can tell someone was catching up with their NR reading this morning!)

https://nikonrumors.com/2018/04/05/nikon-at-the-2018-nab-show.aspx/

Quote

The bigger NAB booth this year was because of the new MRMC Polycam automated capture solution.

Quote

MELVILLE, N.Y., March 28, 2018 /PRNewswire/ -- Experts in camera robotics, MRMC, a Nikon company, announced today a variety of automated image capture solutions that will debut at the NAB 2018 tradeshow. These new offerings provide more angles and creative control of image and video capture at sports venues, providing cost effective and reliable solutions.

Nowhere else is the cutting edge of capture technology on display more than solutions for live sports. Broadcasters and sports clubs need high-speed precision, flawless control and unquestionable reliability. MRMC has therefore created solutions that can deliver on the increasing demands for alternate multi-view perspectives and analysis systems.

"MRMC has a strong history of making bespoke solutions for major broadcasters and many other types of productions," said Assaff Rawner, Managing Director at MRMC. "Together with Nikon, we have the resources to introduce new innovative technologies to the wider sports and traditional broadcasting market, effectively giving creative people the creative control."

For broadcast in-stadium, MRMC's new Polycam Chat solution simplifies and augments the small-scale studio environment with AI, while minimizing footprint and production costs. The system uses face detection in combination with limb recognition for unrivaled accuracy and stability. The Polycam Chat automates the camera operation for up to four presenters and guests in one studio and can easily track a talking head with maximum stability within the frame. The simple interface makes it easy for operators to use, while the flexible platform means it can be used with a number of different broadcast camera solutions including Nikon DSLR cameras.

Clubs, leagues and venues know that an automated, high-mounted and wide-angle video analysis solution gives the advantage at game time. The Polycam Player is a robotic video capture system that offers an unbeatable level of automation, flexibility and low-light image quality. Using ChyronHego's TRACAB player tracking solution, Polycam Player physically moves the camera and adjusts the zoom and focus to automatically keep the team or the player in the frame. Unlike other systems which pan and scan footage from very wide-angle camera arrays, the Polycam Player mimics the natural movement of a camera operator from locations which would be impossible to physically put a human. This technology gives clubs the ability to analyze opponents, monitor players and strategize with unprecedented information, all while providing broadcasters with additional low-cost camera angles to enhance content. Four camera positions are available at launch; two high end zone cameras (high behinds), a high center-line camera (tactical) and a player tracking camera. The individual player-tracking solution also offers live composition control. This technology feature lets the operator tightly frame the player, yet dynamically adjust the framing while continuing to automatically follow the player, resulting in higher quality editorial style output.

To give broadcasters complete control of their content, MRMC is releasing new software updates to MHC (Multi Head Controller). The Multiviewer Skin is a new feature in MHC, and will be available to clubs and broadcasters who want the ability to remotely control up to 12 multiple cameras straight from a single multiviewer touch interface. Additionally, MRMC will be offering the first ever remotely controlled full-live color adjustment for the Nikon D5 DSLR camera. The new Color Control Panel will give MHC users true customization on-the-fly. For the first time, integration of a DSLR into a mixed broadcast camera production is easy with a wide range of remote functions and adjustments including color, white balance and other image setting parameters. Also announced, Live Skin is a new full-screen touch control solution which allows a remote operator to physically move the robot into position using the interface. Live Skin is designed to be user-friendly, letting operators physically engage with the live image stream while maintaining their focus on the subject.

For more information on these and other MRMC automated capture solutions, please visit: https://www.mrmoco.com/NAB2018.

About MRMC
Mark Roberts Motion Control (MRMC) is a Nikon Group company. MRMC is on the front line of imaging innovation and is the leading manufacturer of cutting-edge solutions for motion control, automation, broadcast robotics and remote image capture. They design, manufacture and assemble robotic rigs, pan-tilt and multi-axis robotic heads and tracking technologies. MRMC's robotic and software solutions are used all over the world by film studios, sports broadcasters, football leagues and more. Class-leading technical and engineering achievements have earned MRMC several industry awards in the past 50 years. For more information, visit www.mrmoco.com. In 2016, MRMC was acquired by Nikon Corporation.

Nikon 100th Year Anniversary
Since the company was established in 1917, Nikon has cultivated its status as a pioneer of optical technologies around the world. Guided by a corporate philosophy of "Trustworthiness and Creativity," Nikon provides a wide range of products and services globally by harnessing advanced opto-electronics and precision technologies. Nikon is proud to celebrate their 100th anniversary from July 2017 to July 2018.

About Nikon
Nikon, At the Heart of the Image™. Nikon Inc. is a world leader in digital imaging, precision optics and photo imaging technology; globally recognized for setting new standards in product design and performance for an award-winning array of equipment that enables users to tell their stories through amazing photos and videos. Nikon Inc. distributes consumer and professional digital SLR cameras, NIKKOR optics, Speedlights and system accessories; Nikon COOLPIX® compact digital cameras; 35mm film SLR cameras; Nikon software products and Nikon sports and recreational optics as well as the Nikon 1 compact interchangeable lens camera system and KeyMission line of action cameras. Nikon Corporation, the parent company of Nikon Inc., announced the production of 100 million NIKKOR lenses in 2016, creating a new milestone in Nikon's heritage of superior optics.

4 minutes ago, jonpais said:

There's plenty left, @IronFilm . Many need IBIS for their work.

Watch his video, this is exactly his point, it is all these non-sensor / non-codec stuff which people need. But essentially the days of pixel peeping might soon be "over" (like it is in the stills world already, or so he claims).

7 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@IronFilm That's a bold statement. Fanboy, not?

Note I said:

10 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

I reckon the BMPCC4K could be the beginning of the end. 

Because with 4K 60fps raw, and even greater HD slow motion, and pretty high DR and good lowlight, what really is left? 

Of course just like the folks in the stills world there is a never ending list of "more" wanted!
 

But I reckon just like the stills world we might get soon to point we can worry less about the technical quality of the image, and more about everything else. (such as ergonomics, or having built in NDs, I/O options, TC, wireless, or focus tracking, etc)

I agree with him, in the photography still world the technical performance has plateaued out, with only incremental improvements now. 

When will we reach this in the video world?

I reckon the BMPCC4K could be the beginning of the end. 

Sony has 14bit raw (with for instance their F5/F55, which I've shot raw with, BIG files!). 

https://www.newsshooter.com/2014/03/11/shooting-raw-with-the-sony-f55-and-r5-recorder-just-how-good-is-it-asks-matt-allard/

6 hours ago, jonpais said:

I also thought the abundance of fast, optically superior f/1.2 - f/1.4 primes would put Metabones out of business, but surprisingly, it hasn’t happened yet.

People have an investment in their lens collection, and Metabones allows people to use that with a new camera without buying a whole new set of lenses. 

29 minutes ago, Laurier said:

4k 60fps was the instant preorder spec for me, If you shoot fashion or MV it s almost mandatory, for ND since It s M4/3 there are adapters with NDs you can slide on. 

They're still slower than built in ones. 

And you can't use it with a focal reducer, or with native lenses. 

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

A little meh?? For 12 hundrends I would expect more, and happily paying even more (close to 2000) for a much better device with better insides. This is a FS5mkII kind of release.

Hold your horses, too early to call this a "FS5mk2" release! 

Welllll...  quite the opposite, we can say clearly this is *not* a FS5mk2 release! As there will be hardware improvements (while the FS5mk2 we can skeptical if there are any hardware changes....)

Remember, this F8n is only a couple of hundred dollars more than the launch price of the F8, is that worth it for a handful of improvements? (some which are very much wanted, such as line/mic switchable XLR inputs and headphone amp improvement) I reckon that is worth it for a couple of hundred dollars. 

38 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Splits the signal, delays one and uses the non-delayed one as the sidechain to the delayed one.

Hence, it allows it to effectively look into the future to know when the peaks are coming and be ready and waiting with the adjustment so its giving you a brick wall guarantee.

 

This.

The F8n will probably have small cache, perhaps 10ms or less. So it can "look ahead". Some other recorders/software does that. 

1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

I am still saving for the 10T..

Six hundred dollars more than the F8n, will it be worth it? 

I'm very skeptical if it will be. We'll find out soon enough!

I'm proud of the fact that I have now finally caught up and read EVERY post on this entire 50+ page thread. 

2 hours ago, Snowfun said:

The Bluetooth feature... I so want to post a picture on reduser of me controlling the Pocket 4K using a Hydrogen...

I want to see the reaction on reduser when you share that image

59 minutes ago, sanveer said:

I think that's being unreasonable. For the buck, they are already giving WAY more than anyone else.  

I'd rather have an internal eND than have 4K 60fps

12 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I think it will help that this sensor has been available for quite a while so is a known entity and they've had the opportunity to study what other companies are doing with it.

That, combined with using the same OS as the Ursa, should make it much more of an integration job rather than a ground up development.

Add on Blackmagic now having another 5 years experience of learned lessons of development of building cameras and its not unreasonable to suspect it will be plainer sailing this time round.

Exactly my thoughts too, I'm expecting a smoother roll out than some other BMD camera launches. 

 

2 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

If you wanted to use an external monitor for yourself as well then you could go out of the HDMI without a LUT, through your monitor (without a LUT) and into the client monitor where you have a LUT applied there.

Yup, normal workflow again for cameras without the ability to apply LUTs. But a pity that a camera which can apply LUTs (this new Pocket) doesn't have an extra output option to fully make use of this (maybe the USB-C is an option here like someone else mentioned). Love they've got a full size HDMI output, but what if they'd had a full size HDMI *and* a micro HDMI output?!

12 hours ago, Luke Mason said:

Here are two more screenshots, there are three dynamic range modes (video, extended video and film), these were shot with "film" at ISO 3200 if I remember correctly:

Interesting, does the UMP have "extended video"?  I've never seen it on the BMCC/BMPCC. 

12 hours ago, Luke Mason said:

They didn't tape the card slot, so...

I am surprised they didn't just GLUE the cards into the slots on the cameras (as it is an easy part to replace themselves after the tradeshow). 

3 minutes ago, Philip Lipetz said:

I used to work in finance. Some companies can get loans against their order book.

That wouldn't be the CROWDs financing it. 

It would be a bank (or similar) doing the funding, and even then the funds are not given (like a kickstarter campaign is) but is simply loaned. 

2 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

I wonder if you could use USB-C as a monitoring output. It obviously sends the picture out to record to thumbdrives so what about a USB monitor?

Hmmmm.... that is an interesting thought. 

12 hours ago, anonim said:

But here I noticed that several visitors confirm the same - to quote one of them: "Blackmagic people were unwilling to say anything on camera." I don't understand why.

 

It is normal for many brands across many industries to be comfortable to say one thing in person but not be comfortable for it to be filmed for the entire WORLD to then see. 

12 hours ago, Django said:

@anonim my guess is the prototype was barely made ready in time for NAB (may i remind the rubber port cover that broke off during grant's presentation lol). pretty sure they aren't saying much because they themselves probably haven't had a chance to see/do much with it. it's pretty much specs & a prototype at this point i think.

Ah yeah, I remember that popping off! That was funny. Must have given Grant a mini heart attack. 

9 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

The Ursa Mini Pro can have a different LUT on each of its monitoring outputs so I'm hopeful too but I suppose its another wait and see.

Is a pity it doesn't have more than one output from the BMPCC4K, as then you could have a LUT on one output for the client and no LUT for your own monitoring. 

2 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Dual recording will never happen on any current BMD hardware. The way each recording codec runs on it’s own firmware and the way that works is that it has to reboot a different firmware when you change a codec or resolution or project frame rate. 

Notice when you you change a codec setting it’s a couple of seconds to get back to the live image ? That’s your camera re-starting :-). It just happens so fast few realise that’s what’s going on.

Damn it!