IronFilm

The end is near:

https://petapixel.com/2024/04/16/the-trailer-for-the-worlds-first-fully-ai-generated-film-is-here/

On 3/16/2024 at 9:19 AM, Danyyyel said:

There was an interview from Marques Brownlee about when Sora will come out. And the developers said it would take some time. Now their are two reasons, one is that they don't want to release it before the november election, and they also said it was compute costly.

The last part is very very important to understand. All these cheap services about the wonderful AI, run on very big server farm. For now all these startups cost/profit we don't know. If OpenAi cost was 100, 200, 1000 USD per month, would it had been so successful. And thus is the question. Having one people asking for one video, it could be 10x ILM servers rendering that. So my guess this and all the AI thing as we see, are running on venture capital money and how much to ran them including video we don't know.

Kinda irrelevant. 

Even if prices jacked way up so that the price matches the costs, that's still going to be dirt cheap vs the price to make a film the traditional way. 

Plus you're just thinking about the costs today. 

What was the cost of a gaming machine to run Doom back in 1997?? 

Kinda pricey! $$$

What does it cost these days to run Doom? Next to nothing is the cost 

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Can_it_run_Doom%3F 

16 hours ago, EduPortas said:

In summary, they don't see themselves releasing a Nikon Z-mount RED camera in the near future.

What the... HECK????

That makes no sense at all, unless they're planning to just let RED slowly die??

But when I read the article myself, I see it in a completely different manner:

1) will take time to integrate Nikon and RED together, might be years. There is a lot to do! So with all the other stuff on their plate, perhaps a Z Mount Cinema Camera won't be the first thing out the gate, maybe it will be one more cycle down the road. (maybe they want to make a BIG impact with it when they release it? Have awesome AF with RED)

2) they want to keep their loyal RED customers happy during these turbulent times, so "for now" they'll reassure them by keeping RF mount 

7 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

I doubt that Fuji cameras have been used on a lot of major Hollywood productions.  To the best of my knowledge, Fuji don't make ANY cinema cameras.  I'd be shocked, though, if Fuji's excellent cinema lenses hadn't made their way into at least a handful.

There is a very cool mod for a Fujifilm camera however:

https://www.newsshooter.com/2024/04/16/old-fast-glass-ofg-custom-65-rehoused-fujifilm-gfx-100-ii-cinema-camera/ 

Yeah a headphone output would be nice, could use it as a quick and dirty back up, booming with just a cabled boom straight into the Deity recorder. But not a big deal it is "missing", as overall this is looking very appealing to me, might get one myself. 

16 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

Yes (and in the ZV-1 series), but it's only 8-bit S-Log2/S-Log3/HLG, not the 10-bit version available in the newer and higher end cameras.

Yup, and maybe Nikon might only offer the very highest compression rate (and only that one option, no others) of redcode in a future Nikon Z30 mk2?

Thus having it nominally a whole line up from bottom to top end all integrated together, but also keeping their cheapest entry level cameras "simple to use" (only one compression option for redcode) and giving more serious enthusiasts even more of a reason to upgrade to a Z6mk3 or a mythical "Z500" (the mirrorless D500)

3 hours ago, kye said:

Your examples make sense, but I'd suggest they don't go far enough into the lowest end, which is why I specifically mentioned fixed-lens models like the G7X and Osmo Pocket.  

Well I guess Sony is already doing that with Sony RX10, RX100 and even the RX0 have slog!!

So yes, it would be good if Nikon does this too, make it very easy to mix and match together the full range of cameras in a professional workflow. 

6 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Fortunately, because E Mount adapts almost natively to Z Mount, Nikon and Sony have the highest level of cross compatibility in the hybrid game right now.

That only goes in one direction. 

Sony users jumping over into the newly beefed up Nikon ecosystem, who are bringing over their Sony lenses. 

But Nikon shooters can't go over to Sony cameras and use their Nikon Z Mount lenses. 

This one way directional traffic is a good thing for Nikon. 

12 minutes ago, kye said:

However, a Nikon N-Line is completely possible.  The growth of TikTok etc as video-centric platforms is absolutely true, but I don't think that the cameras that RED currently offer are really where the action is.  If you want to make a line of cameras that are designed for shooting for social media, I'd imagine that this new N-Line would be:

I'd suggest Nikon needs something a heck of a lot cheaper than the Z9 to capture the TikTok / IG / YT crowd. 

What I'd suggest is a pair of cameras:

Nikon N3 (i.e. a Nikon FX3, and priced as such), put basically a large format Komodo into Nikon's spin on a FX3 body (i.e. it's "mirrorless" but with a better design for filming with, such as more mounting points, TC input, a built cooling fan, etc)

Nikon N30 (i.e. a Nikon FX30, and priced as such), put basically a Komodo (but sticking with S35, rather than going with LF) into Nikon's spin on a FX30 body (i.e. it's "mirrorless" but with a better design for filming with, such as more mounting points, TC input, a built cooling fan, etc)

16 minutes ago, kye said:

Currently the market seems to have two kinds of cameras - hybrids for amateurs and cine cameras for working pros.  The gap is that the market also contains a huge number of "professional content creators" who are working professionals but have completely different needs to the amateurs and also the video professionals, which is why we lament the poor / limited / crippled functionality of the hybrid cameras and also lament the lack of flexibility in the cinema camera product lines.

What there needs to be is a very smooth transition from the low end no budget shooters all the way up to the highest-end productions. 

Sony is dominant partially because they've done this so very perfectly, for example a person could easily do this progression of cameras (either buying or renting them along the way as they progress):

Sony ZV-E10 (or even older cheaper secondhand models such as a Sony NEX5 or whatever) => FX30 => FX6 => FX9 => VENICE 

Canon sort of almost did this themselves, which also contributed to their dominance as well before Sony took the throne, such as back in the day:

Canon T2i => 60D => 5Dmk3 => C100 => C300 , with just the absolute very top end of the market after the C300mk1 was lacking from Canon back then. 

It's actually even worse now for Canon as they have with the RF Mount (example step stones here for a path of progression for a new user):

Canon R100 => R10 => R6 => R5 C => C70 => ....nothing???

To have the RF Mount range of cameras for filmmaking from Canon max out at only the C70 level (which is a lot lower than the C300 was positioned at, relatively speaking back in the day) is a problem for Canon. I assume if a C300mk4 ever comes out, that will have a RF Mount and partially fix this issue? But Canon still lacks any answer for the VENICE (or BURANO). 

Nikon has a massive opportunity to do here something that only Sony has currently, have a perfectly seamless upgrade path from the cheapest entry level camera for your kid, all the way up to the cameras used on the biggest Blockbuster AAA Movie Titles, with no gaps along the way where users might drop out and be lost at. 

It's not just about career progression either, you're also making it easier for a mixed bunch of users to work together. 

I'm shooting a short film on a FX9 and I've got a mate starting out who has a FX3 who wants to come along to shoot a 50/50 mix of promotional BTS footage and B Cam setups for the film itself? Perfect!!

Or we're filming a feature film on a couple of VENICE cameras but we've got a big action day where we want heaps more cameras to get all the coverage we need? (especially if there are crashes/explosions, it might be a one time only opportunity to capture these moments for the films) No problem! We rent out all the available FX9 bodies available locally to be the C / D / E Cams, and we buy half a dozen FX30 bodies (or even Sony RX0 cameras!) to position strategically to be crash cams (if we lose the cameras, no big deal! So long as we can salvage the footage from the SD cards). 

Or maybe a director is scouting locations or shooting rehersals with their own FX3 camera, and they capture some perfect magic lightning in a bottle moment that they wish to include those few seconds worth into the edit of the main timeline that was shot with VENICE cameras, again this is once again a lot easier thanks to all being kept in the Sony family. 

Or any of zillion other examples. 

If Nikon has all future REDs have a locking Z Mount, and their mirrorless cameras using redcode, and doing everything else they can to make the transition between them as smooth as possible (similar UI where possible, built in looks shared across them, etc) then Nikon can create a huge advantage for themselves. 

2 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

I'm less optimistic about this.  My guess is that most of the people buying it will be people already firmly embedded in the BMD ecosystem and thus other brands' cameras won't drop too much in price. 

There definitely a newcomers who'd be weighing up their options of what to get, and will now choose this new BMD camera. Less buyers for other systems = lower prices on the secondhand market. Simple Econ101

Also there are lots of people who went with ZCam or old REDs or such, specifically because BMD didn't offer what they wanted. But now BMD does!

3 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

Ports and connectivity look decent. No real complaints. A few years ago, lack of HDMI would be a con because it limited you to pro monitors, but there are lots of affordable SDI monitors now. 

It's very disappointing it is only one SDI output. Should've been two independent SDI outputs! (or at lead have a second output that is HDMI)

As the lack of this will make using this game on set rather restrictive. 

3 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

BM hasn't ventured into audio... yet. It's got to happen at some point, right? Now they have the whole Fairlight system.

Am curious what a bag/field mixer/recorder from BMD would be like!

Something even better than the Zoom F8n??

Quote

"The PYXIS 6K uses the popular and fairly inexpensive Sony-type BP-U battery."

As I already power everything (Sony PMW-F3 + FS7 + my Mixing Bags with the recorder / receivers / etc in them) with BP-U batteries then this is great news for me!  

3 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

My interest in Pyxis dropped a lot when the price was $3k.  Maybe I'll get more interested in it again when it's on the used market for half the price.  😄

Unfortunately I'm kinda in the same boat. Especially as for a few years now then the videography has just been a smaller side line to me vs my main business of being a Production Sound Mixer. Plus with the crash in the media industry and the economy in general, I think I will need to diversify my work (to non-media industry stuff) and aggressively watch my spending (no more cameras). 

The good news though is that a lot of cameras that where in the $3K to $4K ish region of pricing on the secondhand market will I think be pushed down even lower by the release of a Pyxis. 

As why buy an old barebones RED DMSC1 body for $3.5K when you could get a brand new BMD Pyxis 6K with warranty for even less???

So those will tumble in price, which will in turn force down the prices of other secondhand cameras as a domino effect. (sub $1K Panasonic Lumix BS1H camera perhaps? sub $500 ZCam E2-M4?? Maybe, who knows. Perhaps once the BMD Pyxis has been out for a couple of years, and has kept up with buyer demand, and secondhand ones are showing up on eBay at even lower prices than RRP. Which will in turn put pressure on prices of everything else)

1 hour ago, KnightsFan said:

The Pyxis looks alright. I'm a little disappointed that they kept the 6k sensor from the previous camera, but it's what I expected. Keeping the accessory ecosystem from the Ursa Cine is great.

A pity that Pyxis doesn't however have the interchangeable mount that the URSA Cine has. 

5 hours ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

It's interesting to see the minuscule amount of hype around this Blackmagic livestream compared to the BMPCC4K in 2018. It's a ghost town here today.

I wonder the reasons....

1) the crash of the media industry lately? Thus less money to spend

2) the economic recession in general? Thus less money to spend

3) the continuing rise of social media? And thus the fall of web forums as the place to be

4) just like with photography, the average affordable video camera out today is already "good enough" for filmmaking? (perhaps the decline we've seen in nerdy discussions about photography, will happen now with filmmaking too) Thus a ground breaking new camera no longer feels the same way as a ground breaking leap forward as before. As honestly, look at what we had before the P4K, it did make the P4K seem like a big deal! For its low price and great features. While today the PYXIS 6K is definitely awesome and at a great low price, but we already have so many similar-ish cameras at similar-ish (or cheaper) prices with similar-ish prices. And a lot of the great things in the PYXIS 6K are not things we necessarily need. It just feels like the leap forward from where the competition was beforehand was bigger with the P4K than it is today with the PYXIS 6K

Given the estimated pricing for the Nexus G1 vs the low pricing and great features of the newly announced Blackmagic camera, then I'd say the Nexus G1 project is surely now dead??

6 hours ago, Eric Calabros said:

I still think its too early for any RED+Nikon development, but Expeed7 doing R3D is the lowest hanging fruit. 

Even so, that would be a MAJOR announcement. 

1 hour ago, Django said:

Future Nikon sensors will be co-developed with RED and mass-produced for lower prices.

I look forward to the next generation of the RED Komodo having not just a Z Mount, but also being priced the same as Nikon Z7

1 hour ago, Django said:

Nikon will start making cinema lenses for Z mount with T stops – I assume the next RED camera will be with Z-mount.

What about making them for PL Mount??? 

18 hours ago, Davide DB said:

Well I hope these are not the features of the future Lumix FF flagship.

The specifications for the video look very basic. 8K@30p 10 bit but only 4:2:0 internally.

Panasonic does tend to implement and do video a bit better in their versions of the cameras than Leica's 

Over on Nikon Rumors, a commentator posted this summary:

Quote

 

I listened to a podcast with the president of the RED company:
-he can’t say much for now
-don’t expect changes for now it will take time to change anything
-there will be changes, that is inevitable, he is optimistic however and it’s going to be for the best
-passion for cameras will bring the 2 different cultures together
-this has nothing to do with the patent lawsuit
-RED was feeling quite limited, and they can’t do design everything in-house , the market is too small , a lot of competition. Partnerships was one of the solution. The 2 companies have something the other wants
-economy of scale is what he is expecting, and Red won’t feel limited by lack of resources anymore.
-he was impressed by the Z9 and the motion trigger tech(auto-capture)
-he wants to keep his freedom and RED’s freedom

http://disq.us/p/2y0773n 

4 minutes ago, mercer said:

something to let me know that they're not just going to ingest the IP and scale back their new cinema division.

Doubt it, that would be a big waste of the $$$$ they spent to buy RED. 

9 minutes ago, mercer said:

I wonder if Red (Nikon) is planning on reassuring their customer base after this news. I know I would need it, or a new release under the new management, before I invested anything into Red right now.

What reassurances would you be needing? 

I'm not a RED user myself these days (although back when I was still more seriously aspiring to be a DP, I was the DP a fair few times with a RED camera), but if I was then I'd be seeing this as good news. 

Because now you've got a small niche player having the backing and support of a major global company. (well, by camera manufacturer standards) 

Hopefully some of Nikon's reliability and customer service abilities will rub off onto RED itself? Maybe Nikon's huge manufacturing capabilities will also lead to lower prices for future REDs? Maybe we'll see a sub US$4K Komodo?

10 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Transparency?

Armstrong colluded with the UCI to cover up his positive tests FFS.

Gee, I hope you never discover what the sports bureaucracy in other sports get up to.... 

10 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Not 100% of riders.

Name a Top 10 finisher (not just in the TdF but any Grand Tour, or heck, even any of the Classics) from that era who you're certain wasn't ever taking drugs?

I feel as a fan to be stressing and worrying over who was or wasn't is a futile exercise. Just enjoy the racing for what it is. (and got to admit, the racing during that era was a lot better!)

10 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

No, you’re trying to prove your own point that 100% of riders were using.

I never said that. 

10 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Floyd Landis’ TdF title in 2006 went to Oscar Periero just as Alberto Contador’s went to Andy Schleck in 2010 so that proves the point that they only had to go one place down to find a rider that they could give it to.

Oh sure, and Óscar Pereiro has never had any doping allegation scandals around him! /s 😅😂🤣 If you fully believe he's totally clean then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell 😉

This proves the point about how totally different Lance Armstrong has been treated, as a scapegoat and a punching bag for the entire world's media (not just cycling media) to beat up upon. 

(just to be clear btw, I'm no great fan of Lance Armstrong specifically! In fact his existence kinda annoyed me back then, as Armstrong prevented my favorite rider from winning any more TdF titles!! If not for Lance, then I think he'd have gone on to win even more titles than Lance did. Oh well)

(also just to be clear: yes, what he did is wrong. It's wrong to dope. But when you consider the broader context, I find it impossible to get as super hyped up furiously mad about it as so many others seem to be. It's merely disappointing, not some kind of greatest scandal since Watergate) 

59 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

I’m not sure as a hardcore fan of any sport how you could be lukewarm about systematic cheating as, well, it doesn’t seem very, erm, “sporting”.

What high profile professional sport does not have drug taking?

The only reason cycling gets so much flack is because they're a hell of a lot more transparently open about it & the media actually talks about it.

Which it would be good if other sports & the media did this too! Had more open transparency and discussion. (for instance, have you ever heard of Mohamed Katir? Or the Chinese female distance runners of the 1990s?) 

56 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

It is indisputable that they were the leading systematic doping team.

Which is what the sport of cycling is. 

(especially in that era) 

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

I might be being old fashioned here but I’d give it to the highest placed cyclist that wasn’t using PEDs.

You're proving my point here. You can't give out all the wins to anybody else but Lance Armstrong, thus it is utterly farcical to remove it from him when you've got no remotely good options whatsoever to replace him with. 

@Dave Maze (David Altizer) just posted about the Nikon purchase of RED:

30 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Not RED per se but it’s founder Jannard’s role in suppressing the truth about Armstrong’s doping.

The documentary tells the whole story so if you have a VPN it’s worth watching if region blocked.

A summary of it is here

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-02/sponsor-turned-blind-eye-to-lance-armstrongs-doping/5564074

“Turning a blind eye” is doing some heavy lifting there.

As a hard core fan of cycling racing for many years, I'm quite lukewarm over this, don't really care. If you somehow believe Lance Armstrong doesn't deserve the wins, then who does? 2nd place? No. 3rd place? No. 2nd place? No. 4th place? No. 5th place? No. 6th place? No. etc etc etc 

It indisputable that USA Postal during that era was the king at the sport of cycling (well, at least the #1 when it came to TdF wins, which to the casual external viewer is all that seems to matter. Even though the sport of cycling is so so so much more). Just like Red Bull is right now for F1. 

57 minutes ago, JulioD said:

No way is Nikon making a Burano type camera.  

RED will probably make a competitor to BURANO, even if only tangentially so. (such as an updated RED V-RAPTOR)

And RED is now part of Nikon, thus it would be Nikon making it. 

18 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Aiding and abetting the biggest sporting fraud of all time.

 

What does that have to do with RED??? (I can't watch that video due to copyright) 

23 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Still needs a 'light & compact' long lens for me, - the Achilles Heel of the entire L Mount system.

Tamron 70-180mm f2.8 = 855g (not possible with L Mount)

Lumix 70-400mm f4 = nearly 1kg

Sigma 70-200mm f2.8 = 1.35kg

Lumix 70-200mm f2.8 = >1.5kg

Panasonic 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 is only 790grams (sub $1K to buy too!). 

But I presume that lens is too slow for you? 

30 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

...and photography, though most appreciate the latter.

There's been quite a bit of negativity and still is out there in some quarters, re. Nikon as a brand.

At least Nikon gets recognized as part of the "Canikon duopoly" (although in the mature mirrorless era, Sony has broken that duopoly). 

But I agree, it seems Nikon got seen as the forgotten poorer stepchild in that duopoly. 

Even though Nikon has produced so very many ground breaking / top tier stills cameras themselves, such as the Nikon D700 / D3 / D800 / D750 / D500 / etc 

30 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

RED for me as a brand though, is a bit mixed... I think it is a bit of it's time... As someone said above, a few years back it was all RED MEGA GODZILLA XXX and had a certain appeal to a certain market, but that's not any kind of widespread appeal or dare I say, very mature.

So I think a toned down, more youthful, more left field, side brand, could be good for Nikon on one side of this acquisition and on the other side, whatever the tech is that they can utilise.

It should be interesting for sure.

Good point. Nikon has got a bit of an old fuddy duddy branding of stereotype cameraman photographers. So maybe a little bit of the bold brash youthful branding of RED mixed in could be "a good thing"? 

On 3/8/2024 at 1:22 PM, KnightsFan said:

 

1. Red's tech moves to Nikon's mirrorless cameras. Redcode perhaps, accessory compatibility e.g. their new EVF, the global shutter sensors.

2. Nikon's tech moves to Red. Z mount, autofocus, or even simple things like LCD screens, mirrorless-size EVFs. And the other huge category: lenses. Perhaps some of Nikon's excellent optics will find their way into cinema housings, either in PL or Z mount.

Hopefully both of these happen. 

Z6mk2 gets a RedCode firmware update, and Nikon mirrorless does things like taking TC more seriously. Meanwhile RED cinema cameras get better pricing / LCD screens / weatherproofing / Z Mount / EVFs / etc 

23 hours ago, ntblowz said:

I really welcome a Red Powered Nikon FX3/FX30 competitor with Redcode, I would chuck out my FX3/FX30 in a beat!

Yes please! But especially "a Nikon FX6" (or FX60???)

22 hours ago, mercer said:

Exactly. I don't even know what to think. I wasn't planning any upgrade anytime soon, so I can wait to see how things pan out, but how Canon responds will definitely sway me one way or the other.

Hell, this was so out of left field, that for all I know, Canon could announce they bought Arriflex next week.

ARRI lights with Canon branding! 😅

19 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

A loyal customer base and a foothold in Hollywood is a pretty significant reason to purchase RED if a company is looking break into that market. 

With this purchase Nikon leap frogs Canon when it comes to cinema cameras. Not a lot of Hollywood blockbusters filming on Canon cinema cameras, but some of the biggest ones are filmed on RED.

True, but RED is very much playing second fiddle to ARRI. They're waaaay behind these days. 

Heck, RED is playing second fiddle to even Sony in the cinema market!

19 hours ago, MrSMW said:

There is one thing in this acquisition of RED that I am sure of and that is all future Nikon cameras will remain black. Even if they have any kind of badging that reads RED.

Hmmm... don't count on that, don't now assume anything ever about Nikon!

How sure can you really be that Nikon won't make non-black cameras, perhaps even a RED colored camera:

On 3/8/2024 at 3:16 AM, Tim Sewell said:

3. Get a second static view that you can just leave rolling.

Yup, even just a cheap Panasonic GH4 shooting a wide angle can be better than nothing to cut to if you hit a technical hiccup for a couple of seconds / minutes with your main camera.  (edit: or in this case, your A6600, which I just saw you mention)

Another approach is just to shoot afterwards a bunch of random generic B Roll with your main camera, that you can throw into the edit to patch up any holes with. 

11 hours ago, Tim Sewell said:

I had intended to set my A6600 up as a static long shot for the same reason, but when I got there I found a room where there was literally nothing I could secure either a tripod or monopod to, so I couldn't, unfortunately.

Good reason to get a cardellini and other such clamps. 

11 hours ago, Tim Sewell said:

Heh - yeah, not too sure I want to do it for money TBH.

Ah, you got a Sony FS7 just as "a hobby camera"? 
Amazing, shows how cheap and affordable this older pro Sony camera is getting. 

On 3/4/2024 at 11:10 PM, majoraxis said:

Looks like the reviewer has an extra finger on his right hand.

Yes, and a year ago that was a major issue for AI photos. But today it's trending down towards becoming more of a non-issue for AI photos. 

We'll see the same happen soon for AI video as well.