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Andrew Reid

Sony RX10 M2 - first part of my review and a mini-comparison with the A7S and Canon 1D C

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

Ebrahim Saadawi writes some of the best posts in these forums. And no arrogance or rude behavior. It's always a pleasure to read his posts. 

​Full informative post *thumbsup* classy, very well! I guess next time, better to wait for your input before to even dare to post or yours will always put ours at dust LOL : ) It is a pleasure to read your posts all the time any time though, keep up the good work! (E :-)

I really am truly humbled by your kind words, they mean more than you think. I take much more than I give here, and it's an absolute pleasure to give people information and opinions back when they need it, because back in the day one could have really used one of these forums full of people who share a common passion and enjoy helping one another. Thank you. 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

 

To get the FF equivalent, you multiply the crop factor by the focal length to get the field of view, and multiply the aperture to get the depth of field, but you don't apply that to exposure, just DOF. 

 

 

For someone used to FF, the RX10 looks like a FF lens that's 24-200mm F7.6 in depth of field and field of view, and F/2.8 brightness/exposure.

​Love this detailed explanation. These do a real service for all of us, so thanks. I had the angle of view concept, but have always been a bit confused about how to multiply to find the DOF equivalent, so that's very helpful. It makes you realize that a big part of the equation is how well these cameras perform wide open or in that vicinity, since most lenses generally have a sharpness sweet spot in the middle of their range, but to get an decently shallow DOF on these 1" sensors you need to be shooting pretty open, so need a good performance from the lens wide open.

This all exacerbates my main complaint about the weak ND the RX100 IV comes with. I'd love to shoot these pretty well open, but .3 ND does not allow for that at all in bright daylight. You can maybe get away with F/11. It's a shame they didn't make it .6 or .9 or even 1.2. Very confused about the choice by Sony the first go round, but that they kept it for the RX100 IV is baffling. Am I crazy here? What is the point of that weak ass ND?

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Clearly full frame is SUPERIOR to what videographers have worked with for decades and so called full frame is INFERIOR to what a lot of photographers have worked with for over a century.  But as photographers we don't seem to mind using the term.  When I shoot film I usually shoot 6cmx6cm.  In fact full frame is referred to as "small format" by photographers. 

It's always strange to me that people rarely acknowlege the massive step backwards we've taken with digital for convenience. That's not to say I'm not 100% on board with digital because of said convenience, but the image quality seems inferior and not just from a subjective sense of the "look" of film.  It seems fair to say that large format cameras from a century ago produced images with more dynamic range and just more (well this is subjective) 'character' than anything digital we have now under $50,000. It's a pretty simple concept, more area on a sensor/negative will always translate to greater color information and dynamic range, right? I've also heard it said from a film fetishist I know that the way light hits the film plane is very different than it hits the photosites on a sensor, and in his mind, reacts in a more organic way for this reason. Maybe someone with more technical knowledge than me can comment on this? At the limits of my depth here.

Ten years ago in college, I shot medium format film with a rangefinder not much bigger than a Fujifilm X-Pro1. The negative was many multiples the sensor size of the X-Pro 1, and I think it's safe to say we're a long way off from Mamiya 7ii sized medium format digital cameras, for any price (though I'd imagine if one did come out it would be in car price territory). That said, I'd still choose an X-Pro 1 today for the convenience of cheap, massive cards and the ability to preview the image and reshoot without stressing about the cost of the film and the post headache (developing/digitizing). Also, with film all but dead, the post costs for working with film are insane. I can also get close enough to the look of film in post that the tradeoffs in IQ are worth it, not to mention that people are rarely going to see a high res version of the file, let alone a massive print.

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​Why don't we get down and just state measurements in millimetres micrometres, to be more exact in our wording. 

​That would certainly make sense, but I think all the working professionals would be annoyed at having to learn a new system and it would also remove a certain barrier to entry that is perhaps beneficial to industry folks, both stills and video. Just a theory, but could this confusion actually have some sort of economic reasoning? I personally have spent years wrapping my head around these concepts, so it gives me a slight edge over noobs. Not defending the practice, but anything that presents a competitive advantage in these crowded markets is useful for me, personally. 

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Just got this camera and so far i am in love! did some filming of a police helicopter searching in the park close by here in Oslo, Norway. And the camera handles motion perfect! almost no rolling shutter! insanely good :) 

 

Here is a 4K video i shot on Auto downscaled to full hd : https://vimeo.com/133804417

- There was not much time to grab a tripod or anything, so this pretty much all handheld on auto, and no grading.

 

 

​Looks great! How're the servo-zoom speed(s)? The first RX10 apparently only had one, extremely slow, zoom speed. Does the mkII have fast/fast-ish speeds? And how's the AF? Does it track moving subjects well? Thanks.

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Thank you. The zoom speed is changeable fast and slow, and with pressure sensitivity. I am currently somewhere of the coast in Denmark. Just did some amazing golden hour shots (during sun down) and am really impressed with the dynamic range of this camera. I am currently here on holidays, and Internet is really shit so no chance on uploading anything at all :/

 

I'm sure Andrew will have your yaws dropping really soon. 

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Just found some new sample videos of the RX10ii on Youtube (would be fascinated to hear any thoughts, especially in comparison to the GH4 or Sony A7s with Shogun), there are more if you select "this week" option in Youtube:

This one the videographer is going for a filmic look, I guess using S Log (17 July):

 

These two are more of a random overview using auto settings and playing with a few features (first was put up10 hours ago, the second on 15 July):

 

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I really am truly humbled by your kind words, they mean more than you think. I take much more than I give here, and it's an absolute pleasure to give people information and opinions back when they need it, because back in the day one could have really used one of these forums full of people who share a common passion and enjoy helping one another. Thank you. 

You're really welcome! And yes, ​indeed. Forums are the last oasis on earth... When happens ; ) Nice to see you posting on dvxuser too : ) It is always a challenge to try to figure out who writes, if Jr. or Doctor Saadawi (E :-)

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Any experiences with heat yet? As much as I found all the sony cameras I tested nice in the last months, ALL of them showed

problems when recording constantly in a bit hotter surroundings (like summer). How does this camera perform heating/cooling wise?

I saw someone complaining on dpreview that the RX100iv shut down because of overheating after just two minutes while shooting 4K. So some assurances about the RX10ii would be great. 

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Nothing special in this case, here goes anyways:

 

 

 

 

On Youtube: "This is just an early test clip. The dynamic range of S-log2 is almost like shooting RAW photos. However, color tuning seems to be much more difficult than expected. Further exploration on more proper grading is still needed."

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I saw someone complaining on dpreview that the RX100iv shut down because of overheating after just two minutes while shooting 4K. So some assurances about the RX10ii would be great. 

​Me too but on Youtube. Here: https://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=PsQHzB5lgzg

The curious thing is that comment is not there anymore...

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How does the Panasonic LX100 fare against RX10 M2?

My guess is that the LX100 will have better video quality thanks to a larger sensor. It will also feel much nicer to hold imho.

But the RX10ii shoots 4k for twice as long, has a much longer lens and has extras like slow motion. Plus it has S Log 2 which may help getting the video color looking better and perhaps more cinematic? I have been told that Log is necessary for me which is why I am thinking of getting the RX10ii instead of the GH4.

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Any experiences with heat yet? As much as I found all the sony cameras I tested nice in the last months, ALL of them showed

problems when recording constantly in a bit hotter surroundings (like summer). How does this camera perform heating/cooling wise?

If Sony has heat issues in Europe and the US, then, in the Middle East and Asia (as well as Australia), the video must be unable to record beyond a few seconds, as well as having a good chance of dangerously overheating. 

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​Is it just me, or are the S-Log clips from this camera so far looking a bit more natural and, well, nicer than the stuff from the A7s in terms of colour? Yes most of the stuff has been graded and are all desaturated and hipstery, but there's none of the off, weird green skin I'm used to... Could just be that they've been shot and graded properly.

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​Is it just me, or are the S-Log clips from this camera so far looking a bit more natural and, well, nicer than the stuff from the A7s in terms of colour? Yes most of the stuff has been graded and are all desaturated and hipstery, but there's none of the off, weird green skin I'm used to... Could just be that they've been shot and graded properly.

​I think the man who graded it has skills many others don't have... S-log feature is a bit difficult to grade well...

An other thing to say : S-log on the A7S is 3200 isos... so you're almost always obliged to use NDs... which are often green... Maybe the flat look takes a greenish tint that is difficult to correct in post as it is only 4:2:0 ...

 

My 2 cents... but this video looks really promising considering it comes from a RX10... it just blows my mind as i'm waiting for an A7S II... I've just said to my wife when looking at this video that if we know someone who wants a camera right now we can easily let them choose the RX10... what a cam !!!!!

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If Sony has heat issues in Europe and the US, then, in the Middle East and Asia (as well as Australia), the video must be unable to record beyond a few seconds, as well as having a good chance of dangerously overheating. 

​The warmest days in those places is only a few degrees warmer than the warmest days in NA and Europe.

Computer components get way hotter than that, 80C+ is not unusual. The issue with warmer days is that the temperature differential between the camera and the air is lower, so the efficiency of cooling is reduced. This is particularly a problem with cameras that have small compact bodies. A large camera has greater cooling capacity so it can run longer before experiencing overheating issues.

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