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Canon XC10 4K camcorder


Andrew Reid
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15 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

I honestly thinks its in fact the temporal NR. I don't see any of the compression artifacts I used to see in h.264 codecs with low bitrates @tugela

Agreed ! I've been pleasantly surprised with CLOG and how easy it is to grade. @BenEricson

here is my first attempt at CLOG

 

How are you using a grey card when you are shooting this type of guerilla filming? I've never used a grey card for exposure or WB, so please be detailed. 

And are you using any zebras or metering to judge your exposure? I haven't shot too much in 4K with the XC10, but I'd like to start. 

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6 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

Life just got way easier

IMG_7393.PNG

Thanks Santa!

A005_C098_161021_PW_CANON_3_2_07_32_20.j

And thanks FilmConvert for decent colour separation at a mouse click! CLog with FilmConvert and a highlight saturation roll off. Here's where I'd been at in terms of trying for nice colour:

A005_C098_161021_PW_CANON_3_2_07_32_20.j

And I think it's not bad, but I was introducing edge artifacts and accentuating compression blocks. FilmConvert does a really good job of getting psychologically realistic colours without the image falling apart.

I had noticed an overall colour cast to the images that I found hard to shake and I think some LUTs just cover over it but FilmConvert actually seems to be converting (what look like to me) a whole bunch of greens and purples and turning them into... real colour.

2 hours ago, mercer said:

How are you using a grey card when you are shooting this type of guerilla filming? I've never used a grey card for exposure or WB, so please be detailed.

I got a 30cm Lastolite EzyBalance yesterday. It folds up and stuffs away into your bag. When unfolded it's big enough to fill the screen. Stick it in front of the lens in the light you're going to be shooting in and select custom white balance 1 or 2 then press set. You should have neutral colours for the rest of that shoot as long as the light temperature doesn't change.

On 20/10/2016 at 2:52 PM, kidzrevil said:

@hyalinejim we should get a thread going about this ! Hopefully we get enough user support to convince Canon to disable that NR.

Canon have replied to me asking for samples:

Quote

Thank you for contacting us in regards to your XC10 camcorder. I understand that you are concerned about a ghosting effect that is occurring on your unit. We wound kindly ask if you can provide some samples showing the issue so we can investigate this further.

Maybe I will start a new thread on this. Canon have already issued two firmware updates, and have included improvements to noise reduction and rolling shutter. So why not this?

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4 hours ago, mercer said:

How are you using a grey card when you are shooting this type of guerilla filming? I've never used a grey card for exposure or WB, so please be detailed. 

And are you using any zebras or metering to judge your exposure? I haven't shot too much in 4K with the XC10, but I'd like to start. 

I use the expodisc, works really well most of the time but I have trouble white balancing in mixed lighting. You put it infront your lens run the custom white balance and your good to go. Generally I expose my images by eye. I still go by ansel adams zone system since all these cameras meter exposure different. The last vid I did I ended up shooting on Av mode f5.6 with the exposure locked at 500 +1 overexposed. That works for run and gun too!

PM me @hyalinejim so we can compile the info needed to start the thread.

If anyone else wants to contribute to the thread please PM me as well with a link to the uploaded video showing ghosting. If possible send the xml file with the metadata to me as well

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A couple of stills from my Disneyland trip (don't ask!) that I've graded in FilmConvert with the new profiles. 5207 Vis3, 60% film colour, 65% Super 16 grain. Tweaks to curve and saturation. Edit: shot in Canon log at ISO 500 (apart from the last one, which I think was at 2000.

I'm really loving the image I get this camera - it may not be for everybody, but it matches my sensibilities. Knowing it is capable of producing exactly what I want and that it's so easy to use makes me want to shoot a lot more, which is - obviously - the best way to get better at anything!

 

Disneyland-1.jpg

Disneyland-2.jpg

Disneyland-3.jpg

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22 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

I use the expodisc, works really well most of the time but I have trouble white balancing in mixed lighting. You put it infront your lens run the custom white balance and your good to go. Generally I expose my images by eye. I still go by ansel adams zone system since all these cameras meter exposure different. The last vid I did I ended up shooting on Av mode f5.6 with the exposure locked at 500 +1 overexposed. That works for run and gun too!

PM me @hyalinejim so we can compile the info needed to start the thread.

If anyone else wants to contribute to the thread please PM me as well with a link to the uploaded video showing ghosting. If possible send the xml file with the metadata to me as well

I agree we should start a thread. I'm away from my mac this weekend but will repost the stills I posted to this thread next week. I'll also contact Canon direct like you did. Let's make a ruckus. Even if it just makes them aware of it or they explain what's causing it would be something. 

If any XC10 owners here haven't registered with CPN (the XC10 makes you eligible) I suggest you do so and voice your concern via that way. No doubt you'll get more attention than consumer channels.

might be a bad idea to dilute the message but if they do release another firmware update I'd also like to lobby canon to add the waveform and shutter angle features from the xc15 to the XC10!

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On 10/21/2016 at 10:08 PM, Tim Sewell said:

A couple of stills from my Disneyland trip (don't ask!) that I've graded in FilmConvert with the new profiles. 5207 Vis3, 60% film colour, 65% Super 16 grain

@Tim Sewell Forgive me for mentioning it if you already know this: FilmConvert will blur your footage at anything less than the 35mm sizes to simulate the softness of smaller film stocks. If you like the size of 16mm grain but want to maintain sharpness then pick the next size up.

I'm very happy with XC10 + FilmConvert. Will upload some nice landscape stuff later. Also I've found a great example of spatial noise reduction killing detail at low ISO. Hold on to your hats :scream:

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Hey guys - yeah, I know. I'm chasing  that super 16 feel with this, so I'm selecting that grain structure - but I'm dialling it down to around 60% as I find the filmconvert implementations to be a little aggressive (plus, we're, like, in the digital age, right?). Thanks for the thoughts though - I respect the work you put out and I'm always happy to hear your comments.

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that last image with the kids looks cinematic as hell ! Love it

Coming from you I take that s high praise indeed - I love your stuff and aspire to be able to create anything even half as good! I thought that was pretty cinematic too - the beauty of this camera is that it has a depth in underexposure that allows you to grade to the image, not to the noise, which is kind of like... film!

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9 minutes ago, Tim Sewell said:

Hey guys - yeah, I know. I'm chasing  that super 16 feel with this, so I'm selecting that grain structure - but I'm dialling it down to around 60% as I find the filmconvert implementations to be a little aggressive (plus, we're, like, in the digital age, right?). Thanks for the thoughts though - I respect the work you put out and I'm always happy to hear your comments.

Coming from you I take that s high praise indeed - I love your stuff and aspire to be able to create anything even half as good! I thought that was pretty cinematic too - the beauty of this camera is that it has a depth in underexposure that allows you to grade to the image, not to the noise, which is kind of like... film!

wow you just gave me an idea

check this article out. One of my favorite DP's underexposes images and brings it up in post and the effect is beautiful....thinking maybe we can get the same result out the xc10

http://nofilmschool.com/2016/08/how-cinematographer-christian-sprenger-shot-donald-glovers-atlanta

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wow you just gave me an idea

Ha. Yeah, well I don't think it's gonna go to 3 or 4 stops (else Arri would have a problem here) - but, coming from a Canon stills experience, there is a depth to the underexposure in their imager that gives you tonality rather than just noise soup. Canon log, especially, seems to retain colour in underexposure that can give you really painterly tones. I'm experimenting with it now.

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25 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

Some landscape shots from a country walk yesterday. 4K CLog ETTR at ISO 500 to 1000. FilmConvert Kodak 5213 Vis3. Very pleased with sky v foliage v skintone colour separation using FilmConvert on XC10 footage.

 

You've got to love that this is a camera that you can sling around your neck and look like Joe Tourist yet grab images of this depth and colour. When it came out the reviews were dire, yet everyone who has actually used it sings its praises to the ceiling. Canon - shitty marketing department, sensor department on steroids.

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4 minutes ago, Tim Sewell said:

You've got to love that this is a camera that you can sling around your neck and look like Joe Tourist yet grab images of this depth and colour.

Yes, and if you hold it at waist height with the screen flipped up it looks like you're just figuring out how to use it, or fiddling with some settings.

33 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

Testing the 1080p footage to see if it holds up better than the 4k

Looking forward to the results @kidzrevil.

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