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Andrew Reid

Does Cinema EOS mark the end of high spec Canon DSLR video?

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If Canon announced that they were withdrawing from the enthusiast stills camera market, you'd be surprised. It's a pretty big market. But withdraw from the enthusiast video market they almost certainly have at the moment, whether they meant to do or not.

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Canon is profitable because they are the default choice by people who don't know much about cameras, and because many people have already bought into the system and are reluctant to switch (yet). Seriously, I've seen billboard ads in foreign countries that can be translated as "Canon. Duh." or "Canon. What else?"

 

Pentax is doing the same as Canon on the video market (their DSLRs are all technically capable of pretty decent in camera stabilisation, yet they haven't activated it on any new camera since 2010 or so (previous ones had) giving the reason that it is too noisy... I happen to have the last one that had the feature, and one barely ever hears it... and that is with the built in microphone). The difference is that Pentax doesn't have a built in audience, nowhere near as big as Canon at least. And it shows. Sony has long overtaken them it seems, Panasonic too, Samsung will eventually... Keep in mind that Pentax used to dominate the SLR market. They were everywhere. But lack of going with the times technologically, not catering to professional photographers etc. has put them in a position where people are suprised that they are still making cameras.

 

Sony and Panasonic are struggling probably because their other businesses are not doing too well (sadly... the X9005B is the only LCD TV that can even come close to a plasma... and the best plasmas were made by Panasonic, who have stopped making them).

 

I wish Pentax would talk to you, Andrew, but unfortunately they are completely oblivious to the wishes of video shooters... despite their intention of catering to that market (why else would their flagship APS-C camera have manual gain and a headphone jack?).

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Canon are just good enough for the 'masses' - we are specialist camera nerds on this forum and have found all the better alternatives to Canon and how to squeeze every last drop out of them quality wise.

 

People still walk into camera stores and online retailers and just buy a Canon because it has the brand reputation and changing ' the masses' to even think Panasonic or Sony let alone Samsung will still take time.

 

We are all believers - the masses have to still follow us!

 

There are still alot of Canon users on here who will not touch a mirrorless camera with an evf.

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I think we should be happy that 'the masses' are still buying Canon because it is 'the brand to get'.

We, as enthusiasts and some even professionals, earn their living with shooting video's. I'm so happy that 80% of video shooters still shoot 720p on their Canon 7D / 5D. Why? Because my GH3 looks amazing compared to it. And my clients go 'ooeh' and 'aah' when they see my footage. Of course it is composition, grading, talent, etc. But the camera is also important.

 

So I say, stop spreading the word about Canon camera's being shitty. You gain nothing from it, but you take the edge, of us video makers who spent lots of time selecting the best gear carefully, away.

 

Buy Canon folks! Great reliable gear! Never had any problems with them!

 

Furthermore, even though your articule is spot on Andrew, it accomplishes nothing. It's like asking Sony why they don't release a Mac Pro competitor for less money. Clearly there is no interest from Canon in this market. But also, they will still sell the most camera's for years and years to come. And you should buy a Canon, because they are great!

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t could be that Canon’s market feedback and sales suggests enthusiasts are contented with video quality on their 7D or 5D Mark III,?

More likely is that Canon's market feedback & sales suggests that 95% of those enthusiasts purchasing a DSLR don't care two hoots about video as they are buying a camera to take still photographs.

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Canon is a company that doesn't realize how many people want them to succeed. I like their cameras. Personally I still think the Mark 2 has one of best looking color sciences of any offering even today. I even like how they roll off highlights even if it is faster than most. It's pleasing. Plus they feel good in your hands, solid. But sadly if you look at it, the Mark 2 was where it ended. The mark 3 was muddy as hell and didn't really look as good imo. It took a hack to make these things competitive. I'll keep my eye on Canon, but I won't get my hopes up, even if the Mark 4 did have 4k. They'd destroy it in typical canon fashion to protect an already 8-bit 4k 1-DC. Sucks.

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I watched Dave Dugdale's review of the GH4 last night.  When Dave, who is about the nicest, least confrontational camera expert on the internet, when Dave is saying he's going to sell all his Canon gear then Canon has a problem (I often drive Andrew nuts by saying "if you don't have something nice to say then...").  In other words, if Canon has lost Dave  it is just a matter of time before they lose the consumer video market.  Andrew has already taken care of us enthusiasts ;)

 

Dave makes a very strong argument for Panasonic.  The first is that the video, in detail, makes all the Canon cameras, even the 5D3, look blurry.  He actually shows you.  He then goes onto a full-frame's 1st trump card--shallow DOF.  He then shows one of the most interesting focal-reducer (Metabones) experiments, showing how you can get very close to a good shallow DOF with MFT.  Then, with the low light, Canon has an edge, but not by much.  He did his review before the Sony a7.  NOTHING in Canon's arsenal can compete with that.  Dave caps it off with what I feel very strongly about too--the smaller the camera the more one uses it.

 

At this writing, I believe Dave's main two bags are GH4 and A7S.  

 

If you read any marketing book it says somewhere, it is 10x easier to keep a customer than get a new one.  Like many posters above, I don't care what Canon does.  I can barely keep up with Panasonic and Sony and Blackmagic.  And if I REALLY have to have the best full-frame, sorry Canon, I'll pick the higher DR of Nikon. 

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writing that "Samsung and Panasonic offer all-round video capabilities better than the 1D C for $1500, a difference of over $10,000" is just plain bullshit and won't make canon take this forum bering serious at all.

i love my GH4s and i thoroughly tested the A7S which has cool aspects, but a 1DC with a small monitor on top which has focus peaking beats the other cameras in all aspects except weight, or is at least on par - plus it's a way better photo camera.

 

i didn't like the price i had to pay for my 1DC, and i hurt canon by buying 3 GH4 instead of 3 7D2.

i also would love to buy a cheaper-than-1DC camera with 4K  from canon, and most likely this opportunity will happen in 2015.

 

but right now this sort of canon-bashing and whining seems to be more coming from people who don't make enough money to buy pro cameras like the 1DC, but still think they have the right to use it for little money.

this is not how the world and the free market works on this planet!

looking back in history, the 5D2, C300 and 1DC at their time were still the most important and first camera milestones in terms of quality except the D800 for its 36MP.

nobody can expect one company to be the leader in technology AND the cheapest prices at ANY time!

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Couple of thoughts:

I hang around in a few high volume forums that aren't as technical as us (including a deals site and a couple of general tech forums) and the prevailing mentality is that Canon video is #1. So as long as people keep on buying their cameras in large quantities, along with pros padding the profit margins with the Cinema EOS line, Canon will say, why do we have to change anything?

 

The other thing is that Canon, like most companies, don't like bad vibes. They won't tell you anything that makes them look bad, hence the silence.

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writing that "Samsung and Panasonic offer all-round video capabilities better than the 1D C for $1500, a difference of over $10,000" is just plain bullshit and won't make canon take this forum bering serious at all.

 

Key word is "overall". Some facts my friend...

 

Sony A7S with a monitor on top kills the 1D C stone dead for image quality.

1D C is not full frame 4K. The active imaging area is barely any larger than Super 35mm in 4K mode, thus NX1 and GH4 with Speed Booster give a similar rendering of Canon full frame lenses

The codec is from another time, when dinosaurs ruled the earth. 4K MJPEG takes up 6 times the space on my drive that H.265 4K does.

Monitoring on the 1D C bare bones is a nightmare. No EVF, no peaking, in fact virtually nothing to help you focus

The GH4 and NX1 can be used bare bones without a monitor, far more pleasing to shoot with

The 1D C is $12,000... how many times do I have to mention ENTHUSIAST MARKET for you to get the point of the article?

The 1D C's codec has banding issues at low ISOs

The 1D C's sensor is rated barely 12 stops, the GH4 for 13 stops and the A7S for 14. So in that sense the raw stills aren't the best either

 

Like I said... Sony A7S with Shogun on top or 1D C with monitor on top just so you can focus... It's a no brainer. Image, usability, size, portability... everything is better on the Sony.

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Video on a stills camera is an afterthought for Canon.

 

4k is not mass-market yet. It's not even enthusiast level. It's professional level. How many 4k televisions do you see at Walmart? How many methods of 4k delivery are there? 4k is at the present moment largely a capture format, not delivery format, and even in that regard it is by no means necessary.

 

Most people that are buying stills cameras are buying them for their intended purpose: Taking still images. Losing 1% of their market because people chose a different stills camera for their video purposes isn't going to hurt Canon enough to make a difference.

 

Nikon doesn't have any camera that shoots 4k, but how often do you see people taking a shit on them?

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Guest 560a4aedcb80685284629074497fdc75

Couple of thoughts:

I hang around in a few high volume forums that aren't as technical as us (including a deals site and a couple of general tech forums) and the prevailing mentality is that Canon video is #1. So as long as people keep on buying their cameras in large quantities, along with pros padding the profit margins with the Cinema EOS line, Canon will say, why do we have to change anything?

 

 

It's frightening how often you see the T3i recommended on the NFS boards.

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Great article. 

Exactly why I sold my 5D3, and will move on Sony A7II or A9. 

 

Even in photo, quality is awful (compare 5D3 sensor and D810 sensor and you will see what I mean) ... I mean what the hell on earth is this fucking company selling us 5 years old tech for 3000 dollars ? 

 

WAKE UP PEOPLE, STOP TO BE FOOLISH. 

 

Canon makes big margin because foolish customers buy from them with eyes closed, because Pros have Canon .... 

BUT pros have canon because Canon was good before, and pros are not gonna change their system in 2 seconds because of their lens, compatibility and so on ... 

 

But be sure that in a few years, pros will go out, consumers will follow, and Canon will die IF they continue like this. 

 

WAKE up and speak about it, just like this article. 

Buying Canon today is a mistake. 

This company did not evolve since 5 years, while others are innovating every 6 months. 

My 2 cents. 

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Well Panasonic is riding high on profit in recent years as whole group, unlike Sony which the losses is bigger than ever

 

Canon is one of the few profitable companies in the camera business while Sony, Panasonic & pretty much everyone else is struggling. They might be doing the wrong things in the eyes of a particular consumer segment, but they seem to do the right thing from a business perspective.

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