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Andrew Reid

Nikon D810 video quality leapfrogs Canon 5D Mark III

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The D810 now shoots better quality 1080p out of the box than the 5D Mark III. It isn't 4K or raw but it's good.

In fact Nikon are now providing better image quality than Canon across the range in video mode. Beginning with the D3300 and D5300 which provide a better APS-C image than the 7D Mark II with less moire, Nikon have taken the same improvement to image quality and applied it to the D800's successor, the D810.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

I did some testing at work (our photographer just got a new D810) and concluded the same thing. The image actually matches raw from the 5D3 pretty closely (until you start trying to grade it) and despite matching all camera and lens settings across both cameras, I was getting a brighter exposure out of the D810.

 

The photographer has used it to shoot video clips a few times and claims that he's seeing some weird stutter in the motion, but I haven't seen it myself yet.

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It's unfortunate that Canon isn't upgrading their DSLR video quality to be competitive. Lots of us have many Canon lenses and being able to shoot very high quality stills as well as video with a single camera is very, very useful. If the 5D3 successor had an XAVC 422 10-bit class codec with log encoding and at least 5D3 RAW-level resolution, it would rock. Between the A7S and GH4, 5D3 RAW produces superior color and video quality (except extreme low light and of course no 4K).

 

Good for Nikon and the D810- folks with Nikon lenses can now have an excellent stills camera with autofocus that shoots nice video.

 

Regarding the post down sampling-low pass filter comment to remove moire/aliasing: if that were possible we'd have plugins which remove aliasing in our NLEs. Mathematically, it's necessary to perform low-pass filtering before downsampling to prevent aliasing during downsampling. The only way I'm aware to remove aliasing/moire in post effectively is via super-resolution algorithms, which haven't been commercially available (research stage or only in limited hardware/embedded systems).

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“Silly little enthusiast filmmakers. We don’t care about them.†WOW.

 

Do you feel that this was coming from one individual who happened to be misrepresenting Canon as a company, or do you feel that this was the overall stance of Canon?

 

Do you plan on posting the interview you recorded on your iPhone?

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Seems like a hybrid shooter's dream. 36MP fullframe goodness for stills and great at shooting video? Yes plz!

If you don't mind the bulk and have zhe monies (not just for the camera, but especially some great glass to throw in front of)... then the force seems to be strong with this one.

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I have the glass but I won't buy this one (I have the d800).Low light performance is still the same as on the d800 (lineskipping) so it's still 2 stops worse than the 5DMKIII.

They have fixed the color noise with some fancy processing but this seems to produce strange artifacts when you start going over iso 3200-6400.

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10 bit XAVC is a bit of a problem, AFAIK, when it comes to editing. I don't think Premiere CS6 can take it, and there are no hardware decoders available for it, nor will there ever be (probably... 10 bit h264 has been around and in use for at least 3 years, and hardware makers have had absolutely no interest in making their decoders decode it in hardware). So the load on the processor is pretty high... might as well use 10 bit HEVC/h265, which has a higher chance of being properly supported.

 

Any chance of you releasing that Canon interview, Andrew?

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I plan to transcribe the interview from my iPhone recording. It was never meant to go online as an audio file, just a rough quality recording to transcribe from. There's a lot of background noise from the show floor on it and much of the implied unpleasantness was in the body language of the product specialist actually, more so than what he said.

 

I don't want to be in such a difficult personal situation with Canon. There are good people at Canon. I have a good relationship with people at Panasonic, Sony and eventually want to have the same with people at Canon. If I am critical of their products on EOSHD then it is because I want to see better products from Canon not because I have a personal issue with them. The truth is there for you all to see, the DSLRs are simply not delivering the advances we want for video and the Cinema EOS line is priced out of reach for many of us.

 

I was chatting on the record to a German product specialist at Canon named Jorg who was very friendly. I was asking tough questions about video on the 7D Mark II but he was doing very well to answer and to explain the other advantages of the camera and who it was aimed at. After about 20 minutes we were discussing moire and he called over a Canon UK manager who happened to be close-by, to ask him if moire had been fixed. You should have seen the face of this guy. You could feel the stress in both of our voices in his presence, it was simply horrible. He refuses to answer whether moire had been sorted out, then proceeded to be extremely rude and dismissive for a good 10 minutes until I decided I'd had enough and ended the interview. It ended with him saying within earshot of me and in a bitter tone "who's next" as if his time was better spent talking to some kind of 'yes' man.

 

The guy's name is John Morris, he's a product specialist at Canon.

 

I feel that in being so dismissive of my concerns over video on DSLRs, he is dismissive of all of us really, as a community, because you all (mostly) share my concerns. And on a personal level, as a representative of Canon at Photokina I feel the attitude he displayed fell well short of what is expected from people at such large companies.

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I like Canon -- less and less each year.  Oh well, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter.  There are many choices out in the market.  I own a canon 7d.  I use to feel pride when I shot with canon gear.  I don't any more.  That being said, the 7d is still a great stills sports camera; at least for the hobbist like me.  I wish I had the same pride in canon as I use to.  I have more pride in the gh2.  Oh well, Canon has to be careful.  Piss enough people off and nobody will come back.

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Well Andrew, here is the interview you've been waiting for...

http://***URL removed***/articles/7079726133/photokina-2014-canon-interview-mirrorless-in-the-very-near-future

 

DPReview interviewed a super high up executive from JAPAN, right from the horses mouth.  I think the people you interviewed were not in a position to speak against their own company.  They were simply employees whose job is to simply toot the company's horn.

 

Regarding the 7D Mark II, the executive said they interviewed 5000 people to see what people wanted in the new camera.

 

In terms of the user profile they were targeting:

 

"The user profile of 7D owners is ‘high amateur’ and enthusiasts who want high framerates and professional photographers who want a lightweight, fast camera. And also anyone who doesn’t want to carry something big and heavy."

 

So to confirm your suspicion, they didn't care about the filmmaking crowd.

 

As a consumer I guess it is too easy think about ourselves first instead of considering how hard it is to make one product to satisfy everyone.

 

On the one hand I am pissed that the 7D Mark II isn't as revolutionary as the A7S for filmmaking but on the other hand I can sympathize with the challenge of having to narrow down the target audience.

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It ended with him saying within earshot of me and in a bitter tone "who's next" as if his time was better spent talking to some kind of 'yes' man.

You know, that's probably who Canon want. Outside of the very large media movers and shakers Canon won't give you the time of the day.

 

I should do a post on my own experience with Canon's PR agency, which I'd say was the hardest to work with.

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It may seem weird and ironic that the brand which launched the EOS filmmaking Revolution is the same that doesn't seem to worry about it all, but at this point, who really cares?

So many good alternative options, let them persue their strategy and we'll just go elsewhere. Seems like there's plenty of room for everyone.

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Though I'd wonder what guys at Sonys stand would be like if you went there and asked about the horrible blue clipping on the a7s. Are these big corporations that different from one another? Sony makes cool innovations that somehow always seem to lack the little important things. Canon makes stuff that's usually thought out pretty well but never really innovates and is a couple of years late. Panasonic is like a melding of these two and is really trying hard these days. Pick your poison.

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@ectobuilder: That is a pretty tightlipped and brusque interview. Not quite rude, but not pleasant or forthcoming either. I think he sounds arrogant.

Not the way to give interviews to international media!

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May be you where the 100th  person who ask him the same question during the day LOL.

 

I might be joking a bit, but this can be true. Sometime your company might put you in a very embarrassing situation when you are at the forefront of the customers. After some time it can get a bit frustrating defending some position time and time again.

 

On the other hand many time when you come from some big corporation and that business is more or less good, at least for them, the Cinema line seems to have been a success, you get very arrogant.

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Do you think the D750 is able to match this video quality?

 

On this thread, the OP days that it is even better. I think is more of the low light. My theory is that perhaps with the 36 megapixel sensor they cannot sample the same proportion for the final binning compared to the other 24 megapixel sensor they use.

 

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You know, that's probably who Canon want. Outside of the very large media movers and shakers Canon won't give you the time of the day.

 

You know, I'd probably say bollocks. I haven't been working in Photokina, but I have been working on other similar venues. Standing on the carpet wearing a shirt and a lanyard with a logo and talking to people. Things are hardly ever black and white. I have no obligation to defend Canon or their reps on a fair but, keep in mind that we only know about one side of the story, or barely even that. Some perspective would always be good to have.

 

Also keep in mind that the people there are hired to concentrate on talking about the products the company currently have on display, not on the stuff they currently don't have. If you stick to a personal agenda and press them mostly about what they don't have is likely to result to frustration at some point. They won't have an answer for you. They may even not know the answer. If you choose not to bark at the wrong tree doesn't make you a "yes man." That is something different. For the most part the people on the floor aren't those who have the decision making power to begin with.

 

So let's give the reps on the floor a break, shall we. We all have bad days at times, and apparently that one rep had his at that time. 

 

Disclaimer: I have no affiliation whatsoever to Canon or their local dealers. I don't even shoot with Canon gear.

 

 

It may seem weird and ironic that the brand which launched the EOS filmmaking Revolution is the same that doesn't seem to worry about it all, but at this point, who really cares?

 

Canon didn't actually start any filmmaking revolution. Filmmakers like Vincent Laforet, Gale Tattersall and a few others did, when they discovered that a new feature added in the 5D (and D90) for something more simple could be used for something cool, too. Canon didn't have them or enthusiasts/indie filmmakers in mind when they added that feature. The "revolution" that followed was just a lucky accident from them. A one that they haven't utilised, apart from the pricey C line aimed at professionals.

Had they really been responsible for a pre-planned "revolution," their mainstream products would not be what they have been so far, ever since the 5D2. The only reason we're now starting to hear rumours about new stuff is because of outside pressure and latest sales figures.

 

In other words, it's not weird, more like business as usual for them. The real revolutions are likely to come from other players, the hungry underdogs, and at this point the lazy market leaders are likely to react rather than lead the way, as we've seen.

 

BTW, the title of this topic mentions Nikon D810, so why is all the talk here about Canon? 

Just like in any Sony or other brand topic the talk is mostly about Nikon. Now that's genuinely weird and ironic, isn't it.  ;)

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Well Andrew, here is the interview you've been waiting for...

http://***URL removed***/articles/7079726133/photokina-2014-canon-interview-mirrorless-in-the-very-near-future

 

DPReview interviewed a super high up executive from JAPAN, right from the horses mouth.  I think the people you interviewed were not in a position to speak against their own company.  They were simply employees whose job is to simply toot the company's horn.

 

Regarding the 7D Mark II, the executive said they interviewed 5000 people to see what people wanted in the new camera.

 

In terms of the user profile they were targeting:

 

"The user profile of 7D owners is ‘high amateur’ and enthusiasts who want high framerates and professional photographers who want a lightweight, fast camera. And also anyone who doesn’t want to carry something big and heavy."

 

So to confirm your suspicion, they didn't care about the filmmaking crowd.

 

As a consumer I guess it is too easy think about ourselves first instead of considering how hard it is to make one product to satisfy everyone.

 

On the one hand I am pissed that the 7D Mark II isn't as revolutionary as the A7S for filmmaking but on the other hand I can sympathize with the challenge of having to narrow down the target audience.

I never expected the 7DmkII to really be great for video though. I never really understood the greater appeal of the 7D in the first place. Starting out shooting video I just as happy would've taken the 550D/T2i and spend some extra on lenses and accessories. Do you really need the weathersealing, top LCD and everything? In the end of the day you can manage to get the same videofootage out of either. For its time, the 18MP sensor and videomode were pretty excellent and the shots looked rather cinematic, especially gearing it up with a nifty fifty or some other prime/lens with low lightloss. And the 7D might've maked sense for hybrid shooters or photography enthusiasts (because of the weathersealing, crop is good for tele, top LCD, enhanced burst, more advanced autofocus for stills, etc) or people with less of a tight budget, but I think it was the successors of the 550D that were going in the videodirection, imho the 7D was always more of the still shooter's friend and from the markII I expected nothing different. That's why they brought something in between, the 60D, which was later even followed by the 70D, which were already a bit more videocentric/nicer to use for video.

 

The 600D in meanwhile was also really welcomed for it's entry level price and sporting a flippy tilty screenie. Add on touchscreen, continuous autofocus during video and a STM line-up, this is looking already way more videominded than the 7D. I don't know what had gotten into them releasing the 700D, because changing a dial and some coating and then allowed you to apply creative filters in liveview and then upping the modelnumber, that's not a successor, that's not evolution, that's botox. I think Canon still has a great chance to win over customers by offering great video, but I think that if you're looking at the 7DmkII for that, you're looking at the wrong camera... I feel like they need something that would take Canon back to the time of the T2i and create something that takes great video for its time and is accessible to just about anybody. A 700D successor with a very capable moviemode and great videoquality. Not even sure if they need to go 4K for that. I think a proper 1080p would suffice for the time and they could keep costs down, keeping it entry level and keep an upgradepath open, all whilst not cannibalizing other lines. I think there's room there for something.

 

So I actually wish/hope for the entry level to evolve for video, if there will be any evolution from Canon's side that is. To continue the line of 550D - 600D - 650D - 700D... but it will take a newer sensor and better engineering/processing to evolve. Although judging their history with that... it's not really likely they will step it up all that much. It's more likely they will throw the 20.2MP sensor of the 70D in the 700D successor and call it revolutionary. But I'm so hoping that's not the case, 'cause I do believe they could win over a lot of people if they'd just bring a solid entry level with awesome video to the market. The other stills for video camera from Canon is obviously the 5D-line if you're looking for something more professional and capable. The 5DmkII most notably I think was of great significance from end of 2008 and then the evolution to the 5DmkIII in the beginning of 2012... I have high hopes for a 5DmkIV next year. They have used the 5D-line in so many productions! But now with the incredible A7S... the D810 seems to deliver... Canon really needs to take it up a notch to keep people interested in their fullframe video solution/hybrid camera. Although for lots of people it will be too little too late. The window is closing for Canon and people are jumping ship to swim and climb abort Panasonic and Sony's yachts. Not so much Nikon yet, but I can see that change... and lets not forget what Samsung is doing...

 

Tl;dr Never expected great things for video from the 7DmkII. I hope the T2i and 5D's success resurfaces again 2015 with new models that will actually offer incredible sensors of which great results can be yielded. If the prayers stay unanswered people will start losing their religion and seek their faith elsewhere.

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