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Andrew Reid

Sony A7S rolling shutter test

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I'd still prefer it to the GH4 if it was a similar price. The high ISO is incredible and I suspect the dynamic range will be very good. But at $3,000+, GH4 all the way. The guy from Atomos said it would be paired with the Shogun for under $5,000 and he said the Shogun is going to be about $2,000. The guy who shot the footage that was released to the public mentioned he thought they were going to go for around 5D MkIII pricing, so I'm going to guess $3,299 for the A7s.

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$3299 is too much. Pros are unlikely to embrace in their masses with wobbly jello and wobbly HDMI cable and consumers are likely to snub it on an affordability basis if it is over $2k especially when they can get the more featured packed GH4 at $1699 and internal 4K without need to spend an extra $2k on a recorder.

 

Careful Sony, this is a promising camera... don't blow it.

 

Reduce the crappy jello and keep the price accessible.

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After only external 4K recording if the rolling shutter stay this bad that will be another let down, new rumors points out a different price than rumored before. Actually it points to the price range I thought it would be, something near D800, 5D range, double of the GH4, if that is confirmed as well, for those that actually believed that it would cost the same as the GH4 will be even more disappointed.

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Sorry, this test is bullshit.

 

In this video, the rolling shuter is composed of 4 components that add together:

1. The A7S rolling shutter (duh)

2. The raster scan display (equal to ~1/24 or 1/30 s for the 4K monitor)

3. The unknown rolling shutter speed of the camera filming the monitor

4. The raster scan display you are watching  (e.g. 1/60 s, with rare exceptions like Lightboost)

 

explanation for display skew:

 

grapho8ssy.png

 

The rolling shutter of the A7S might still be the dominant factor, but I'd wait and see for some real tests.

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Lol, I am pretty sure Sony has NO CLUE what the price will be. For sure in term of production cost it is similar to a classic A7. Now it is only about marketing. 

As andrew said, video pros will prefer the GH4 if they are on a budget, or a real video camera if they have money. This A7S is perfect for people like me who do stills and videos and want great quality of both. But we are consumers and not willing to pay more than 2K. I saw many many post (SAR comments, forums..) of people saying they pay it under 2K, and not if more. 2K is the limit, so the price of this camera should be 1999 maximum (ideally 1699 to match GH4) otherwise Sony FAILS and I F*** them

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It seems that separating camera and 4k recorder is a new business plan for JP companies. There is a truth: if you want a useable 4k and audio, you should spend more than $5000 for Panasonic (body+ Yoga+ recorder) and more or less same price for Sony. Andrew, you were always on the side of indie filmmakers and I want you to keep your position, a line of a commend or an app cannot make 4:2:0 a 4:4:4, if it could they would defiantly add it to their firmware!

 

Unfortunately it seems that these companies have already decayed Atoms as well. This is why Atoms opens the doors of pro-res to other manufactures and release Shogun with a price tag of $1999 which is three to eight times more than their other products.

If Black Magic can release their new camera on-time, they will gracefully win the game. Even if they have delay, I am happy with their announcement this time, it will hold many indie filmmakers from spending their savings to some bullshit products.

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

I am sorry I wouldn't use a camera that produces this much rolling shutter at all. At any price. From 50 dollars to 50.000. This reached the point of being a deal-breaker. And no it's not just for those doing extreme sports and action shooting, it's for anyone who's planning to use the camera for shooting "video" and not still photographs.   

-I hope this is just a camera sample for NAB and not an actual product representative, I would buy it with great excitement for lowlight if it doesn't produce this much of rolling shutter, even for 4-5000$ 

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

Is the rolling shutter any worse than 5D3?

If this test is indicative to final results out of the A7S, then yes. Much worse :S 

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Sorry, this test is bullshit.

 

In this video, the rolling shuter is composed of 4 components that add together:

1. The A7S rolling shutter (duh)

2. The raster scan display (equal to ~1/24 or 1/30 s for the 4K monitor)

3. The unknown rolling shutter speed of the camera filming the monitor

4. The raster scan display you are watching  (e.g. 1/60 s, with rare exceptions like Lightboost)

 

explanation for display skew:

 

The rolling shutter of the A7S might still be the dominant factor, but I'd wait and see for some real tests.

 

Sort of. I think the point of the video is acting as evidence for the main point, which is Andrew Wonder's eyewitness report. If it's not an issue then it's easy for Sony to respond and dismiss it.

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Let's not rush to judgment until we get a 'real' answer.

If this camera can stay under $2k, we would still have a great tool for interview/ less action type filming for reframing, etc.. 

 

Another thing- I just watched an interview over at planet 5D, where a sony rep that said "HD, and 4K are available in both APS-C, and full frame".

I wonder how the camera was set during this test, APS-C or FF...?

 

Still very excited to see this released along side the new 28-135mm 4.0 servo from Sony.

That camera and lens combo along with the new Sigma 50mm 1.4 Art, maybe enough incentive to sell my RAW powered 5D3~ (or at least shelve it more often).

 

From my perspective, I'd be more reluctant to buy the m4/3 GH4 over the Sony IF the A7s price can stay within reason. My .02¢

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I noticed also RS when playing with the camera. The video makes the A7s look unusable. But just for your info, attached to this A7s was a 70-200mm lens and it was fully zoomed in on the video above. So who is doing a pan like this at 200mm? I don't. Yes for sports it is the wrong camera, but for filming under controlled situations to do a real estate video for example, this is the perfect camera. I have no idea how the rs will look at a GH4 at 200mm. Maybe it will not be that extrem but it will be there for sure!

On the other side when I compared the noise level between the A7s and the Gh4 there was a difference like night and day between both cameras :D

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The vistavision sized sensor will lend itself better to locked down shots anyway.  Ultimately look at the rolling shutter as something to limit the camera movement and impart a bigger feel to what you're shooting.  Fast paced cinematic full frame always looks strange to me since if it were a proper sized cinema camera very often there simply wouldnt be the means to move the camera fast enough to promote rolling shutter artefacts anyway.  I cant remember the last time I saw a shot on any film where the dp has requested the operator swings the camera from left to right over and over again.  

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The vistavision sized sensor will lend itself better to locked down shots anyway.  Ultimately look at the rolling shutter as something to limit the camera movement and impart a bigger feel to what you're shooting.  Fast paced cinematic full frame always looks strange to me since if it were a proper sized cinema camera very often there simply wouldnt be the means to move the camera fast enough to promote rolling shutter artefacts anyway.  I cant remember the last time I saw a shot on any film where the dp has requested the operator swings the camera from left to right over and over again.  

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