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HBO Max streaming controversy - Christopher Nolan versus Warner


Andrew Reid
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8 hours ago, mkabi said:

This is where our thought processes diverge... 

Theatres don't support filmmakers... studios support filmmakers... I know you are going to say that theatres support studios and so from super structure point of view that if theatres support studios then theatres support the creatives/artists... right? Perhaps, but that only gives half the story

I don't know if our thoughts diverge that much. I agree with what you said. I'm saying that streaming is supporting a cultural shift away from more thoughtful movies, towards lower quality (imo) content. Like I said, it's not that streaming is inherently making movies worse, but that the audience is less invested in their content since it's on in the background, or literally stays on after they fall asleep. Quantity over quality. Of course some people still critically watch their streamed content (myself included), but we're in the vast minority.

(The other issue I brought up, of concentrating wealth in fewer people is a separate problem.)

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"From now on, it’s all Amazon Prime remakes by directors fresh from a couple of flashy Super bowl commercials"

This is a very ignorant and frankly dismissively rude statement.

Let's ignore Netflix, Hulu, etc. (who are making films like Mank). Amazon Prime: just in the past year we've had (to name but only a few from the top of my head) films like Honey Boy, Suspiria, Cold War, The Vast of Night, The Sound of Metal.

The latter, quite recently released, is a masterpiece from a first-time director with one of the best performances of the year. The Vast of Night was a $700,000 film from a first-time director that never would've been made by a studio like Disney. Cold War is a black-and-white historical drama (in 4:3) by Paweł Pawlikowski, in French/Polish. Honey Boy is a $3.5 million film directed by an Israeli-American woman - Alma Har'el. Shows? They made Fleabag - a low-budget a black comedy from a woman that few have ever heard of; it became on the highest rated shows of the decade, won multiple Emmys and Golden Globes, and catapulted Phoebe Waller-Bridge to stardom.

Setting aside the actual diversity of CONTENT, Amazon (among other streaming services) has opened doors for diversity of TALENT behind the camera. We've never seen so many films and shows from female and foreign directors/showrunners with the audience and exposure that Amazon (or whomever) provides.

Sure, they make some crap. So does literally every movie studio.

But to dismiss their content as "remakes" and their directors as "fresh from a couple of flashy Super bowl commercials" is insulting, arrogant, ignorant, and beneath anyone who has the audience you do.

Look, Amazon sucks as a company. They are pieces of sh*t. But don't dismiss the artists and their work.

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On 12/11/2020 at 4:21 PM, EduPortas said:

People who actually enjoy going out of their houses? 😛

Not everyone is rocking a 75-inch screen in their tailored-made domestic movie theater.

If some of you guys are lucky enough to own a monster TV set and speakers then great, but going out for dinner and a movie is still a popular and accesible way to have fun. Has been like that for the last 100 years.

Streaming services tend to rack-up. Their prices, as many have said, will only go up, even if we don't care for 99% of the crap Netflix and others push on their platforms.

I WILL happily pay once or twice a month for cine ticket I know my family or friends will watch with me in a movie theather. Nice way to spend time and actually enjoy the outside world (facemask included).

 

SMH, I leave my house every day, but not to just go and sit inside another building. A nice day out for me is a kayaking trip or exploring a park or shooting landscapes. I'm not saying there aren't any people willing to go to theaters, its just never going to get back to 2019 levels. Ever. Just as studios are pivoting, so are audiences. 

I have a TV and nothing else, a $500 65" set I bought a few months ago. Its not a monster home theater setup. But still a great covid-free experience without enduring endless previews and jackasses on their phones or talking during the movie. Get some takeout, mix up a few cocktails and its a great date night.

Enjoy

Chris

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On 12/10/2020 at 7:40 AM, mkabi said:

Music industry went the way it went because people were pirating the music online anyway.

When Napster pop out nobody was pirating music online. And the music industry instead of getting the potential from it and be there to use it, they kept trying to close all the variants, while people learned to pirate. Once you learn to get your stuff for free, it is difficult to pay for it. 

Vinyls costed less than CDs which costed less than an album on iTunes. While an album on iTunes is nearly free to distribute, and CDs costs much less to produce than LPs. Charging more money for everytime less product brought the music industry to its knees. 

Now we will see if the film industry doesn't implode before the pandemic ends. 

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3 hours ago, Xavier Plagaro Mussard said:

Now we will see if the film industry doesn't implode before the pandemic ends. 

Not before some thousands or millions of restaurants and hotels worldwide + a bunch of air companies...

This industry is one of the few most affected.

Mere question of adaptation to the circumstances, as always happened before with the TV advent, color TV, home video or since the beginning of the digital revolution, P2P, HD, FHD, UHD, social media, etc.

- E.

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20 hours ago, seanzzxx said:

Lol because the box office has been famously dominated by thoughtful, high quality movies.

A couple highest grossing films of their year: Lawrence of Arabia, 2001 A Space Odyssey, The Godfather, Star Wars, Terminator 2, Lord of the Rings 2 and 3, The Dark Knight. Obviously some lousy films make a lot of money, but by and large prior to ~2005 I'd say that many of the highest grossing films are pretty good or better. I can't say the same for the movies and particularly the shows that rise to the top on Netflix. Every single time I have picked a movie from the top of the Netflix list, I wish I had done something else instead.

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True.

20 hours ago, pixelpreaching said:

(...)

Let's ignore Netflix, Hulu, etc. (who are making films like Mank). Amazon Prime: just in the past year we've had (to name but only a few from the top of my head) films like Honey Boy, Suspiria, Cold War, The Vast of Night, The Sound of Metal.

The latter, quite recently released, is a masterpiece from a first-time director with one of the best performances of the year. The Vast of Night was a $700,000 film from a first-time director that never would've been made by a studio like Disney. Cold War is a black-and-white historical drama (in 4:3) by Paweł Pawlikowski, in French/Polish. Honey Boy is a $3.5 million film directed by an Israeli-American woman - Alma Har'el. Shows? They made Fleabag - a low-budget a black comedy from a woman that few have ever heard of; it became on the highest rated shows of the decade, won multiple Emmys and Golden Globes, and catapulted Phoebe Waller-Bridge to stardom.

Setting aside the actual diversity of CONTENT, Amazon (among other streaming services) has opened doors for diversity of TALENT behind the camera. We've never seen so many films and shows from female and foreign directors/showrunners with the audience and exposure that Amazon (or whomever) provides.

Sure, they make some crap. So does literally every movie studio.

(...) don't dismiss the artists and their work.

True, Part 2.

 

"The opposite of a trivial truth is plainly false. The opposite of a great truth is also true.” ~ Niels Bohr

:- )

 

 

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13 minutes ago, pixelpreaching said:

I think you're agreeing with me? Haha.

Of course, I am. People tend to see it B&W, this is not real ; )

Streaming is a bless for filmmaking and guys working in this industry like me for example : ) I have film credits with Angelina Jolie and Spike Lee, I am not sure I could have them so wide years earlier.

This age brought the democratization for this medium never seen before.

- E.

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4 hours ago, Emanuel said:

Of course, I am. People tend to see it B&W, this is not real ; )

Streaming is a bless for filmmaking and guys working in this industry like me for example : ) I have film credits with Angelina Jolie and Spike Lee, I am not sure I could have them so wide years earlier.

This age brought the democratization for this medium never seen before.

- E.

I also work in the industry and there is undeniably a democratization happening with streaming. Hell, look - the highest grossing American film of the year was directed by a woman this year. Never happened before. Now that was more the result of lucky timing ("lucky" being used loosely in regards to that result). But even after theatres shut down, films directed by women and non-white men have found huge success on Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, VOD, etc.

We have - for a very long time - existed in a divide where we have huge multi-hundred million dollar blockbusters and then a lot of smaller films under $30 million (or so) and many indie films. The middle bottomed out. A lot of people probably don't even remember what theatres and movies were like before the Marvel (and later Disney) take over that started in 2008.

And that just wasn't ever going to be sustainable without adapting.

I love seeing movies in a nice theatre with a nice projection and a nice sound system. I love seeing exciting moments with a big audience. But I also love a VARIETY of content from a VARIETY of voices. Every day we get access to more and more of that. Which is great.

(none of this is to say that I don't have my issues with streaming or certain companies, like Disney - Disney is a garbage company - and there are pitfalls to the takeover of streaming media. But guess what? The world changes. You adapt or you die. Hopefully Chris Nolan realizes that)

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20 hours ago, pixelpreaching said:

there is undeniably a democratization happening with streaming.

First of all, I don't think Amazon (or other streaming services) are actually financing the smaller movies you're citing....  Unless you have access to sums of money far beyond anyone's personal resources, it's a life of fund-raising, not filmmaking.  The U.S. in particular lacks what could be reasonably described as an "art house tradition" (the typical Sundance movie is a Hollywood movie with commercial value removed.  "Quirky", indeed!) and there's no tradition of funding it philanthropically.

As for "democratization", it's more a freedom to disappear and starve.  Netflix has long been known as the graveyard of independent film.   It's not a viable production model, unless you persuade them to finance you.

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1 hour ago, helium said:

(...) it's a life of fund-raising, not filmmaking. (...)

Yes, it is. Well said. But you can have an idea of filmmaking on your back when you do the job.

I am currently producing a doc series on immigration topic for worldwide distribution, so you can get the picture ; ) or a portion of what I mean with it (E :- )

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  • 1 month later...
On 12/14/2020 at 8:19 AM, Trek of Joy said:

Enjoy

Chris

Obviously we are living in very different realities. We are a people who enjoy the outside world, despite high insecurity levels and overcrowding. Our weather allows that year-long.

Over here enjoying a nice evening with drinks, dinner and a cool movie inside the cinema is the civilized thing to do during the weekend. We can even drink inside the movie theatre, hehe! Audiences are generally very respectful inside movie theaters. When they are not, they get shouted at until they leave the room (saw that during the last Nolan film). But that's rare and, honestly, comical. 

Pretty sure big movie companies will go for one last hurrah in my third-world country before migrating completely to streaming.

Or at least I really hope so.

 

 

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