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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K

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1 hour ago, Oliver Daniel said:

I like Blackmagic but they should go to a modular ZCAM box design. The poor battery, fixed screen and odd shape make it a no-go for me. This would be an absolute no brainer if you could just pull it out the box and shoot without having to bolt on a few bricks to make it work reliably.

I don't understand. You seem to want a camera that you can "just pull it out of the box and shoot...", but then you say BM should go to a ZCAM box design. None of the ZCAM box cameras can be used "out of the box". Having several P4Ks and a P6K, I assure you that you *can* pull it out and shoot without accessories. You will need several batteries, but batteries are cheap. My P4Ks have paid for themselves many times over and will continue to do so.

If someone wants a cam where they can just open the box and start filming, grab one of the hybrids like, GH5, XT3, etc. and go to town. Many of the hybrid cameras are fantastic (but don't offer RAW).

All of my P4Ks have a cage and a Sony NP970 battery sled. They now get 2+ hours of run time and the battery life is no longer an issue. You can also get the Tilta cage. Their handle allows you to load a Sony NP battery in the handle. This also gives you a nice stable foundation for handheld usage.

Would I rather have a camera that got great battery life with the internal battery? Certainly. The GH5/GH5s constantly amaze me at how well they perform and how long they last on a battery. With that said, I added battery grips to all of my GH5 & GH5s cameras to increase their battery life as well. The P4K battery life is poor compared to some of the hybrid cameras, but the battery life is good compared to many of the cinema cameras. 

The P4K & P6K give you amazing image quality and the ability to capture 12-bit RAW in an affordable package. The downside is that the battery life is like those Sony cams from a few years back ;) To me, carrying more batteries or adding an external battery is a small inconvenience for the benefits. By the way, the Sony NP batteries and the battery sleds that will connect to the P4K & P6K are cheap. This is a really inexpensive upgrade.

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6 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

By being the only one Ive watched.. thought that went without saying.

Great, then you should buy it.

The motion, the clarity, the colors and the tones/curves.

So does mine.

Looks video to me.

Exactly, very smartphoneish. Not a fan.

Please note:

I have NEVER said that the P6K shoots footage that looks videoish and can't produce cinematic footage. All Im saying is that after reading your post about "proof" that the P6K is "more cinematic than the P4K" I was very disappointed after pressing play on that video.
But like I said there are most likely much better examples of cinematic footage out there.

What is 50fps supposed to look like? It's slower then reality.  You have a You Tube channel and that's the best way you can describe videoish?  Amazing. 

You saying any footage looks videoish is a put down that is left for people to thing a camera is sub par.  Your comments prove this.

The grade put on the camera can push the color and tonal values in any direction but you commented on that. The clarity is not over done at all and not "sharpened" or unnatural. 

You're nothing but biased and your word is not real.  I want to trust You Tube influencers but your response to the P4K is amateurish at best. 

4 hours ago, Oliver Daniel said:

I agree with @Mattias Burling, this doesn’t really “sell” the quality of the camera. In fact, the entire footage page they published doesn’t either. Could easily be filmed with a GH5 and I wouldn’t notice. 

This is mostly down to the filmmakers though and not the camera, however it’s clear that the gulf between camera quality is much less and pretty much every new release doesn’t have that “special sauce” to differentiate them enough. 

I like Blackmagic but they should go to a modular ZCAM box design. The poor battery, fixed screen and odd shape make it a no-go for me. This would be an absolute no brainer if you could just pull it out the box and shoot without having to bolt on a few bricks to make it work reliably.

Lots of options these days - but also in these days I’m thinking far less about my cameras choices than ever. 

And I just watched S1 with the new update look like iHone garbage compared to the P6K footage I posted. 

Nothing I said about the P6K footage had to do with the color grade and everything to do with cadence and how it handled motions, background and captured data information.  You guys need to read my comment before you use the word videoish.  Next time you pick out GH5, S1 and P4K footage make sure you watch out for the motion stutter because it seems like you all have a blind eye when it comes to admitting that those 3 camera have issues in that department. 

 

Motion in film is like silk because its capturing real like. Real life doesn't have stutter and jitters.

6 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

50fps looks like silk, film does not. That's why they're saying it looks more videoy.

You need to revisit film versus the low end motion and cadence. And then revisit the P6K footage. 

Motion in film is like silk because its capturing real like. Real life doesn't have stutter and jitters.

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5 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Read the posts again when you have calmed down from what ever it was that triggered you.  Because you are clearly reading in stuff that isn't there.

My original post was about motion cadence and not cinematic look.  You of all people would know the difference and it's clear that's what my comments were about. 

You yourself post great footage that you bounce around and how different LUT's and color grades but you come on here and talk about curves and color on a piece of footage that I clearly stated had great motion cadence.   That blows my mind.  You're not a novice and have more experience then I do with various cameras including the P4K.  So I truly don't get the flat our trying to dog the P6K with the "videoish" comment you made.  That's such a You Tube influencer comment that's never seen in a good light. And this is a Blackmagic camera.

And clearly lots of footage is on You Tube and has been for days.

Here's a NEWS flash: 

If your camera (the GH5) has horrible motion cadence then NOTHING can bring that back and fix it in post.  And motion cadence covers everything to do with motion, including pans, push in, people in motion, and very subtile movements that has parallax background movement.  

This is what separates cine cameras from the lower end cameras. 

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10 hours ago, Skip77 said:

This footage shows the P6K is more cinematic then the P4K. 

 

19 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

So I truly don't get the flat our trying to dog the P6K with the "videoish" comment you made.  

You are just making this up. Read the posts again. I have said more than once that I'm convinced that the P6K can capture cinematic footage.

21 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

Here's a NEWS flash: ...

I've got one for you to. Google "global shutter" and thank me later.

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Thought I would share a couple of explorations I have done with the P6K ... 

After considerable time with the P4K I began looking for something a bit bigger ... yet most of the cameras out there have an element that

represents a compromise ... and it can be a struggle to decide what you really need in a camera. All about the image quality and sound that

you can capture ... and lens mount sensor preamps and ergonomics play a big part in how we can capture what we see.

I was pleased to see the announcement of the P6K as the P4K has worked well for my needs.

So this week ... heat index outside was 108F ... I captured a bunch of things inside to look at light and color. Also played with the XLR inputs to insure that 

this camera works as well as the P4K.

Here are a couple of short-lived videos ... cannot leave them up for long due to music I added for myself ... hate looking at video without a background of sound.

Not cinema ... no drama ... just moving pictures ... video if it suites you. Capture at 5.7K BM Raw Quality 0 to the CFast card in 24p without and difficulty and

rendered on a 4K DCI timeline with a 2K DCI output. Output as ProRes 422 ...

https://youtu.be/b758C4khvMs

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOTQWfI0YPY&feature=youtu.be

 

I love the extra resolution and great color science that was in the P4K (v4). 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

 

You are just making this up. Read the posts again. I have said more than once that I'm convinced that the P6K can capture cinematic footage.

I've got one for you to. Google "global shutter" and thank me later.

So now you think you're a snob and bring up global shutter? I know global shutter and it has issues or everyone would use global shutter.  

 

Again for the 100th time.  My link and post was only about cadence and motion.  Feel free to add actual comments to debate that if you like, I welcome that.  But don't insult us and make backyard comments about the footage looking videoish.  On anther post you'll praise the S1 for it's cinematic look. 

And stop the b.s. comments that you're making.  You said: "I have said more than once that I'm convinced that the P6K can capture cinematic footage." This is such a backhanded compliment that it's mind boggling.  What's the deal. I thought you were a straight up down the line guy?  Stop with the videoish and I'n certain the 6K can be cinematic. 

You're turning into a negative influencer. Look at the comment below your original one after my video. One of your sheep chimed in the same way.  

Again - cadence motion is better on the P6K then the P4K and that was what my link and comment were about.  

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40 minutes ago, docmoore said:

 

Here are a couple of short-lived videos ... cannot leave them up for long due to music I added for myself ... hate looking at video without a background of sound.

Not cinema ... no drama ... just moving pictures ... video if it suites you. Capture at 5.7K BM Raw Quality 0 to the CFast card in 24p without and difficulty and

rendered on a 4K DCI timeline with a 2K DCI output. Output as ProRes 422

 

 

Nice shots in there, some of them very clear and with lots of details! 👍

What Lens/es did you use here?

What look did you want to achieve, or was it only a simple test of the cameras resolution etc?

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Thank you!

No specific look ... grading was to test DR and color fidelity. 

Canon 50 F 1.2 for one and Zeiss 100 F2 Makro for the other ... listed in the opening credits.

Really looking at highlights and how natural the overall feel could be ... 

My bias is from the perspective of a landscape and portrait photography background ... so I tend to pick times for the appropriate 

light and convey what it imparts to a scene.

 

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5 minutes ago, docmoore said:

Thank you!

No specific look ... grading was to test DR and color fidelity. 

Canon 50 F 1.2 for one and Zeiss 100 F2 Makro for the other ... listed in the opening credits.

Really looking at highlights and how natural the overall feel could be ... 

My bias is from the perspective of a landscape and portrait photography background ... so I tend to pick times for the appropriate 

light and convey what it imparts to a scene.

 

Any comments on the hot topic of P4K vs P6K?

Pros - Cons? Are you missing something from your P4K when using the P6K, or the opposite?

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34 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

So now you think you're a snob and bring up global shutter? 

Ok I'm calling troll now. No way you are this bad at reading even you own posts..

6 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Any comments on the hot topic of P4K vs P6K?

Pros - Cons? Are you missing something from your P4K when using the P6K, or the opposite?

Just be careful, seems to be a very sensitive subject and one must choose the words very carefully. Even when saying that the camera is good :)

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9 minutes ago, docmoore said:

Thank you!

No specific look ... grading was to test DR and color fidelity. 

Canon 50 F 1.2 for one and Zeiss 100 F2 Makro for the other ... listed in the opening credits.

Really looking at highlights and how natural the overall feel could be ... 

My bias is from the perspective of a landscape and portrait photography background ... so I tend to pick times for the appropriate 

light and convey what it imparts to a scene.

Great! 

I own the Pocket 4k and like it a lot, but I stay with 25p for most of my Projects, as I really don´t like the look that 50/60p provides in terms of motion.

It will be interesting in what way high-resolution cameras will or wont change our perception of film-like images.

Even with 4k it´s sometimes too much sharpness and not enough organic structure. I´m looking forward to the upcoming Pocket 6K Footage, Portrait-Shots as well as some short films.

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23 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Any comments on the hot topic of P4K vs P6K?

Pros - Cons? Are you missing something from your P4K when using the P6K, or the opposite?

Both are very good ... disruptive for the above $10K camera manufacturers if over time they function without major issue,

and only time will tell on that front. My experience has satisfied my concerns ... and at these prices replacing a camera is not

a dealbreaker.

I prefer not adding elements behind a lens ... which was designed to perform at a specific flange depth in a specific way. So 

the ability to use better EF mount lenses on a native mount is my preference. Spatial rolloff is characteristic of sensor size and

I just prefer larger sensors ... MF and FF for stills ... so many other elements affect video one has to look at everything. Arri has

used a small sensor to great ends as they engineered the imaging pipeline so well. Most others are playing catchup.

The loss of BM Raw at certain resolutions on the P6K is not an issue for me as I am not bound by production time constraints ...

hence the 5.7K capture to a 4K or 2K DCI Prores render. I did not use Prores on the P4K ... again BM Raw to Prores in Davinci Resolve 

Studio.

Realistically, almost any new camera can produce compelling footage if one stays within the limits of its design envelope and respects 

its limitations.

Just need to decide what tradeoffs are worth it to you.

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6 hours ago, Skip77 said:

Motion in film is like silk because its capturing real like. Real life doesn't have stutter and jitters.

Film motion is not like 'silk' at all. There IS a stutter to it.

Most modern TV's have features now that attempt to smooth the motion out and the results are a little like watching 1080i or 50p at realtime speed, it looks 'videoish'

I have a little mission in life whereby whenever I visit someones house, I try to secretly turn off image smoothing when they are up making me a coffee as most TV's seem to have it on by default.

They don't notice anything and it is back to how the film maker intended 🤫

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1 hour ago, Mattias Burling said:

Ok I'm calling troll now. No way you are this bad at reading even you own posts..

Just be careful, seems to be a very sensitive subject and one must choose the words very carefully. Even when saying that the camera is good :)

And I'll call you a troll.   You still haven't read my first comment that was with the video link.  It's about motion cadence and that's the cinematically better then the P4K. 

Please dispute this or shut up about telling me to read your comments.  Your replied comment was a back handed shot at the P6K at best.  You the "Mighty Mattias say you think the P6K will be able to produce cinematic footage".  What is the "might" in your comment?  You have officially became a You Tube influencer and can avoid backing up your comments.  

Good job brother.

36 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

Film motion is not like 'silk' at all. There IS a stutter to it.

Most modern TV's have features now that attempt to smooth the motion out and the results are a little like watching 1080i or 50p at realtime speed, it looks 'videoish'

I have a little mission in life whereby whenever I visit someones house, I try to secretly turn off image smoothing when they are up making me a coffee as most TV's seem to have it on by default.

They don't notice anything and it is back to how the film maker intended 🤫

You're as bad as the Mighty Matters.  There's not smoothing going on with today's flat screen tv's and certainly not across You Tube and back across my monitors.  

Motion films use the Arri and RED's and others and produce natural motion cadence.  Motion cadence is real and watching the RED or P6K at 50 fps gives you a slow motion smooth look. But the other thing the RED or P6K does is captures the natural motion correctly.  Be it the subject or camera movement.  The cadence on the P6K is not videoish in any way. 

I really think you don't have a clue about what makes great motion cadence and would bet you own the GH5.  

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Mattias... a troll?!! LOL What a good laugh! : )

 

You'd be the only one to probably back that statement, I bet : D I wouldn't dare to write the same about you, though ; -)

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1 minute ago, Emanuel said:

Mattias... a troll? LOL

 

You'd be the only one to probably back it, I bet : D I wouldn't dare to state the same about you, though ; -)

Yes a troll if he calls me out for not reading this comment as he clearly didn't read mine.  Even after I told him my comment was about "motion cadence".  No rebuttal and nothing to defend his comments except call me a troll.  

3 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Mattias... a troll? LOL

 

You'd be the only one to probably back it, I bet : D I wouldn't dare to state the same about you, though ; -)

How's that P6K that you supposedly ordered?  

 

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9 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

And I'll call you a troll.   You still haven't read my first comment that was with the video link.  It's about motion cadence and that's the cinematically better then the P4K. 

Please dispute this or shut up about telling me to read your comments.  Your replied comment was a back handed shot at the P6K at best.  You the "Mighty Mattias say you think the P6K will be able to produce cinematic footage".  What is the "might" in your comment?  You have officially became a You Tube influencer and can avoid backing up your comments.  

Good job brother.

You're as bad as the Mighty Matters.  There's not smoothing going on with today's flat screen tv's and certainly not across You Tube and back across my monitors.  

Motion films use the Arri and RED's and others and produce natural motion cadence.  Motion cadence is real and watching the RED or P6K at 50 fps gives you a slow motion smooth look. But the other thing the RED or P6K does is captures the natural motion correctly.  Be it the subject or camera movement.  The cadence on the P6K is not videoish in any way. 

I really think you don't have a clue about what makes great motion cadence and would bet you own the GH5.  

OK Skip.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/12/5/18127329/how-to-turn-off-motion-smoothing-tv-lg-samsung-vizio-sony-roku

 

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You know what's the problem of that, Skip77? Take a second thought reading your posts again, you'll easily follow the reasoning behind any hostile criticism on your entries as pre-judgement or misconceptions as you call it. Credit must be earned, no other : -)

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