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Blind Color Science Test

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5 hours ago, kye said:

You're probably right, but there's no harm in being welcoming.  If we can influence any of them to do tests with a grey-card then instead of lamenting the decline of industry journalism we can enjoy videos that are useful and informative, but that's probably not going to happen if all we do is unconstructive hyperbolic criticisms.

Not all of us... when only a few of us do fair criticism! LOL : )

 

Imagine if Andrew would adopt this new trend... This world would be much poorer with the lack of the standard we become to be used to.

Speaking of devil... lead me to find such unbiased reviewing outside where there's no friendly place for fanboys, please?

Take it for free: don't bash your luck, guys ; -)

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
On 6/16/2019 at 1:15 PM, Andrew Reid said:

The only time these "internet celebrities" join a proper forum like this is when they hear their name mentioned.

Haha, I would say your more of an "internet celebrity" than I am ;)  I've been following your site for a very long time. Thanks for the great content. I did join to reply to some of the posts on this thread and answer some questions as they come up. I usually try to do this if I see my videos shared on sites. I might post a bit from time to time but I can't spend too much time on forums/groups since I already work way too much. Unlike a lot of photography/video YouTubers I still make a majority of my income from actual video work and I don't intent on become a "full-time YouTube" since I find it weird to teach about cameras when the only time you use them is to make a youtube video. I actually just hired another employee to take the load off of editing so I can get to shoot more and work a little less. 

22 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

I would also say the system is horribly broken if Max has to alter facts to get clicks. 

Yea Youtube is horrible lately. They keep tweaking the algorithms and forcing channels to change or die. You may have noticed may channels that are around the million mark who used to consistently get hundreds of thousands of view per video and now they are getting less than I am. Google is pushing creators to have to clickbait and make dumb choices or find a new career. Thats especially tough for those that have employees that rely on the income to feed their families. A single tweak of the algorithm and a lot of your old great content is no longer suggested or you're clickthrough rate is low in the first hour you post and then the video is basically shadow banned.. I'm doing my very best to create thumbnails and titles that are "clickable" but not clickbait..

The original thumbnail for this video was the two cameras and I thought it was sweet but I guess it didn't get enough views and the video started dying out so I had to change it up, and the side by side shot was just too similar to stand out when in the suggested section so I had to boost it up. This video didn't take too long, but I've had some that were a full week of 8+ hour days to make and in those cases it really sucks when you make a really good helpful video and almost no one sees it, even though you know that it would be helpful for so many people. Now that YouTube filters out videos even in your subscriber feed you can put out a few videos and they won't even show up to most of your subscribers... 

On 6/16/2019 at 3:40 PM, kye said:

You're probably right, but there's no harm in being welcoming.  If we can influence any of them to do tests with a grey-card then instead of lamenting the decline of industry journalism we can enjoy videos that are useful and informative, but that's probably not going to happen if all we do is unconstructive hyperbolic criticisms.

Thanks for being Kind Kye! I wen't back and fourth on the best way to do this, and settled on somewhere in the middle (using factory presets) using proper custom white balance would be the best but I know a lot of shooters don't do this because they are beginners or they don't want to (or they are shooting run n gun, like I am when shooting weddings) If someone isn't willing to tweak colors in post they will likely not want to custom WB. It's funny I was actually criticized by multiple people on using WB presets and was told the proper way to do it was to use auto white balance. This forums is full of much more advanced shooters and whereas Youtube has a very wide audience so I often have to choose a middle ground. 

On 6/16/2019 at 1:02 AM, Castorp said:

I’m sorry but Max videos are clickbaity and toxic. As are most Youtubers like Tony and Chelsea, Fro, and all the other ones I can’t even remember because I stay away from that cynical BS. 

The exaggerated thumbnail is shameful. 

There is no editorial integrity whatsoever with most Youtubers ( with rare exceptions like Mattias Burling).

Max makes money from making basically flame videos that pose as “tests”. All spiced up with manipulative and inflammatory titles, thumbnails and content. 

I'm sorry you feel this way. My tests, comparisons, and reviews are definitely not perfect but I do try hard to keep them accurate while being reasonable in time and target audience. I have my preferences but try to keep my biases out and let people know when its my opinion and why.  What tests did you not like and what is Toxic? I'd love to get specific feedback. A lot of my complaints and harsh judgements about cameras have often matched to with Andrews. 

On 6/15/2019 at 10:54 AM, Andrew Reid said:

he's clearly been around lurking and probably using the blog for inspiration for quite a few years now, without bothering to strike up any kind of friendship, email, or to my knowledge any mention on his YouTube channel. So that's not very endearing.

Actually I did share Pro Color with quite a few people and mentioned your site in multiple vids, I've just stayed way too busy the last few years growing my business and my family (3 kids now) so I haven't been able to spend as much time visiting sites or even watching as much other content creators videos as I used to. I'm also a bit anti-social like many people who are driven to start sites online of Youtube channels, and I'm terrible at reaching out and collaborating with other creators since I feel like I'll just be a nuisance or I'll be asking for favors which I hate doing. 

Anyways, I'll keep doing what I enjoy doing and will keep improving my skills and YT videos whilst trying to provide the most value I can to a large audience of all kinds of video shooters. 

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3 minutes ago, MaxYuryev said:

Haha, I would say your more of an "internet celebrity" than I am ;)  I've been following your site for a very long time. Thanks for the great content. I did join to reply to some of the posts on this thread and answer some questions as they come up. I usually try to do this if I see my videos shared on sites.

People are being way to harsh on you IMHO. I find a lot of your videos interesting and helpful. Make a youtube video takes a lot of work especially anything with thought behind it.

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7 minutes ago, MaxYuryev said:

Thanks for being Kind Kye! I wen't back and fourth on the best way to do this, and settled on somewhere in the middle (using factory presets) using proper custom white balance would be the best but I know a lot of shooters don't do this because they are beginners or they don't want to (or they are shooting run n gun, like I am when shooting weddings) If someone isn't willing to tweak colors in post they will likely not want to custom WB. It's funny I was actually criticized by multiple people on using WB presets and was told the proper way to do it was to use auto white balance. This forums is full of much more advanced shooters and whereas Youtube has a very wide audience so I often have to choose a middle ground. 

You're welcome!

Video is tricky and colour and colour science is especially tricky because it's a very very deep subject.  

The main levels I see in colour are:

  1. Use camera on full-auto in standard colour profile, don't adjust in post
  2. Dial in a profile to get the results you want in-camera, maybe using a grey-card and maybe not
  3. Shoot log using a grey-card and grade in post using LUTs and basic adjustments
  4. Grade manually without relying on LUTs to do the work
  5. Professional colourists

I also hang out on liftgammagain.com which is aimed at professional colourists and in many ways the gap in skill level and knowledge between 3 and 5 (or even 4 and 5) is larger than the gap between 1 and 3.  If you're curious to have a tiny taste of what a professional colourist skill level might be like, check out Juan Melara on YT.  It's a fundamentally different kind of skill level. Here's a couple of videos to get you started:

In talking to the professional colourists I've come to understand that the world of Hollywood and the real pros has basically no overlap with the YT world - if all you know is YT then you've never seen a glimpse of how that other world works, with the only exception I know of being Juan Melara.  I'm happy to point you to other resources where pros hang out if you're curious.

In this sense I appreciate that you're torn between people that haven't got a clue how little they know and probably complain about anything resembling work, and those with more knowledge criticising you for not catering to a more informed audience.

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On 6/17/2019 at 6:24 PM, kye said:

In this sense I appreciate that you're torn between people that haven't got a clue how little they know and probably complain about anything resembling work, and those with more knowledge criticising you for not catering to a more informed audience.

Man thanks so much! I spend a lot of time on YT and I've never seen his video, I'm now subbed and will watch what you suggested and check out his other videos, and also liftgammagain.com 

 

Thank you! 

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Of course you will be crediting Kye and the EOSHD Forum with where you first heard about these videos and grading techniques if you end up mentioning them on your channel, won't you

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I understand Andrew. I sincerely see EOSHD to be unfairly underrated more often than due...

It is nice from Max to pop up anyway. Hope you stay in a serious way, though. Not only for an episodic agenda of your very own.

I was used to post links to EOSHD in the comments section of Max's YT channel videos. How many others outside come here other than lurking and do the same?

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How naive can some people get?

Max is on a PR mission, he's not here to actually contribute to a forum. The PR mission is only necessary as he's been outed faking a shot to make Fuji look greener than Kermit The Frog. If it wasn't for that, he wouldn't be here. Max exists for clicks and to make money, and if he can use the research and knowledge of other people for free to further his content along the way then he's all the richer for it.

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3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

The PR mission is only necessary as he's been outed faking a shot to make Fuji look greener than Kermit The Frog. If it wasn't for that, he wouldn't be here. 

I haven't commented on this as I wanted to give it time to pan out but I had a search on YouTube for "Sony vs Fujifilm colour" and no other video creators have found it necessary to manipulate the thumbnail in this way to "get around the algorithm" and all of them seem to have done OK in terms of the number of views.

I get trying to game the system @MaxYuryev if you feel you've been hard done by but do you not think by doing something so deliberately disingenuous as this you've now become part of the problem rather than the solution?

What I'm really struggling to understand though is why it remains uncorrected this long after it has been pointed out and this long after you've admitted the deliberate deception.

I'm afraid you can't hide behind the algorithm for that one and for what its worth, from my own personal point of view, whatever benefit of the doubt I'd given you for an aberration born of a sense of injustice and you at least having the honesty to admit to it, has evaporated by you not remedying it when you've had the opportunity.

 

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12 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

How naive can some people get?

Max is on a PR mission, he's not here to actually contribute to a forum. The PR mission is only necessary as he's been outed faking a shot to make Fuji look greener than Kermit The Frog. If it wasn't for that, he wouldn't be here. Max exists for clicks and to make money, and if he can use the research and knowledge of other people for free to further his content along the way then he's all the richer for it.

There are no angels in the Catholic altars, only saints and you'll hardly find them in the real life. I don't see anything wrong to make money with a business. Max has his own family to keep going as he wrote. Who can be against that? ; )

On the contrary, seems fairly productive to make viable some core interest of our own. The point is to strictly limit (or not) our conduct and every steps submitted to an agenda. I hope not Max's case. Too lit to be legit. That's a sacred secret and not exactly free balance to make it happen all long way. I make it for living with passion. That's to my book. So far so good (E : -)


PS: The most funny is to be me to remind those old battles with Jon because of Max's Sony bias he was used to disagree when happened... Me sorta defending Max now, if sounds that and it is somehow, in a certain angle of view, is hilarious to say the least : -P

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