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Mike Kozlenko

Selling FS5 to get a BMPCC4K?

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On 3/23/2019 at 1:31 PM, mercer said:

Holy crap, that’s the deal of the year!!!

Not really. That is a fairly typical ballpark price if you hunt hard enough. 

Not unusual to see sub $2.5K FS5 cameras on eBay (although getting a mk2 for that price is a good deal! However the mk2 didn't add much over the mk1)

And getting an Odyssey 7Q  for under a grand is easy enough 

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On 3/14/2019 at 8:01 AM, thebrothersthre3 said:

...the FS5...has internal ND's

For the type of shooting I do, that would be the reason I'd use the Sony over the BM.  Simple choice.  All the other specs would be secondary considerations.

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First off sorry for the length of the post and going off topic a bit here and there.. But I had similar choice a few weeks ago as you...

I was in similar boat with decision to add a video centric camera to my a7riii.. I could have upgraded to A7riv, which made no sense to me as I am coming from photography and wanting to do more high end video.  The a7riv kept the same specs for video, except the eye AF in video which is a big deal for some ppl, but for me that was a non starter, OFC still waiting like everyone to see Sony A7Siii .. In meantime, wanted video centric camera, so its was either FS5 or BMPCC 4K or 6K.. Since I was already invest heavily in Sony Eco system with FF glass, I went with the FS5. I got all my GM, ZEISS E mount glass I can use, with a crop factor of S35 ofc. But I also have Vtg Cine set of Bell and Howell General scietifics which are S35, and C mount Som Berthiot Set, 10mm,16mm,24mm,50mm,75, and a 25-100mm zoom, a B&H set of C mounts, and a set of isco 35mm primes. With the center scan, I can use C mount lenses with no vignette..Plus clear image zoom of 2x.. I can also use clear image zoom in 4K as well which means no vignette up to 1.5x in 4K mode.. The biggest factor for me was not ONLY the internal ND, but the AUTO INTERNAL ND..

Which is SIMPLY AMAZING...

THE AUTO INTERNAL ND IS A GAME CHANGER.. ITS A MUST HAVE AND IN A FEW YEARS I THINK IT WILL BE DEFAULT ON EVERY HIGH END CAMERA...

I set to 180 deg shutter all the time, use GAIN, then I am good to go.. As for menus, the FS5 looks intimidating if your new to cine cameras, but after working with it for a week, i literally can operate it in the dark... Its intimidating at first.. Checkout Doug Jensen course on the FS5.. vortexmedia its called.. That taught me all I needed to know for $50 - 6+ hrs...

Now my biggest FACTOR for going with the FS5, was ability of the internal ND, and the fact that I am heavily invest in sonys eco system.. Though with cine gear going forward, until sony releases the A7siii, which hopefully will be amazing for everyone.. Or if they release a new FX6 and FX3 both with internal NDs... it wouldnt shock me at all.. I could see a s1H type camera for 4K from sony with same color science with new internal nd, maybe that is the reason its taking so long. To get the internal ND small enough to go with IS.. man FX9 users will be mad.. But nothing sony isn't use to doing.. How you think all us A7Riii users felt when they dropped the A7riv, which plummeted our prices.. And look at BMPCC4K with the release of the 6K.. Its part of the camera business.. look what canon is about to drop in the R5, though my guess is it will be "canonified" and dummyed down..  Sony has their new S CINETONE which looks great on the FX9. but they can take a page out of panasonic book and charge $199 for the color science upgrade and release it in the Fx6 and Fx3..

The Sony S camera was about low light, and TBH, the low light int he standard A7iii has caught up b/c they all now use the new BSI chips which are amazing in lowlight.

Back to whether you pick BMPCC or FS5, it really is about what job you need it to do? Are you going to color grade your own work?

Though if u learn grading and have the time, you can make any camera look however you want in RESOLVE or PREMIERE PRO.. Back to why I chose FS5.. OFC, the     FS II is same camera with upgrades incl which are RAW upgrade, HFR upgrade, and MPEG2 upgrade(for some reason) ... anyways I got all 3x upgrades included with a FS 5 with a bunch of +++ , a portabrace bag, a high end sennheiser mic of some kind, and the kit lense of 18-105mm f4 PZ was included too.. and low hrs like 140hrs. Thing was mint though and just had one small issue with an old battery, though was resolved and fixed with a new battery..  Not Bad at all for $2300 + tax..

I was looking at the bmpcc for IQ though, and TBH it was really the opportunity made itself available and funds were there and ofc I had gas.. But if it wasnt available at that price point, I was going to get the 6K BMPCC and then slowly build out my kit which costs alot of $$.. It adds upquickly.. But Battery life and no NDs and the biggest reason was, I didnt have any m4/3 glass and seeing how I already owned E mount glass it simply made no sense to invest in M4/3 or even the EF mount 6K BMPCC.. If I wasnt heavily invested in E Mount glass, then I would have prob be writing about how great the BMPCC is right now... lol 

There both great at what they do but as another poster said, they do different things.. But I feel with atomos, the FS5 is a TRUE cinema camera thru and thru..

It's potential is limitless with the RAW 12bit 4K... As long as you know how to grade footage..

And the fact was I also was able to get a Atomos shogun inferno that same day for $600.. got my SDI cables and SDDs through BH and I was set to start learning my new camera.. So far so good.. I love how easy it is to Rig up the fS5.. I bought some small rig plates and monitor holders and I can move the evf around, and even use it on a gimbal.. And if I dont need RAW for a project I got great codecs with low bitrates in 10bit internal.. The AF works for me when needed.. just a s slow contrast AF I believe.. I dont think its phase detect at all..  The A7riii AF is amazing for video, though the new IV has eye AF for video, which is like dual pixel AF from canon.

But only 8 BIT !! and I am learning to grade and 8 bit I cant push my colors.. Whole reason I got the Atomos shogun inferno was to shoot RAW though.  Yea it adds some weight to the camera but with the shoulder rig mount I built its no problem and if I want to go hand held I can. But to be able to use VTG s16 lenses, S35 lenses, and Now that I am going to purchase a FF speedbooster, I can start to invest into some EF mount glass which I will be able to use on my Sonys with an adapter, but I still got all my GM glass, the 24mm, 35mm(zeiss1.4), 551.8(zeiss) 85GM, and my new favorite 135mm GM... But if you own EF glass, then you have the ability to pick whatever works for you.. IF you got E mount glass, your stuck with Sony... Which I dont mind at all.. Tough choices though and tbh, I dont think you can go wrong with either.. IF you want amazing IQ and great color science then go with BMPCC.. If you want better battery life, auto internal ND, and a more robust cine style camera then go with FS5.  good luck with your choice.. I know I went back and forth a bunch.. If you got the $$, buy BOTH. 

 

Also another reason I bought the FS5 was to have the colors match up easier.. I can use my FS5 as my A cam and my A7riii as my B cam. and I can get the same picture profiles and same looks with relative ease.. If you use to different camera manufacturers, and 2x different kinds of lenses and mix n match, its just alot more time in POST to match everything.. its a real pain.. That was another deciding factor along with the biggest fact that I am heavily invest in E mount glass.. And I was not going to unload my G glass for a fraction of what I paid for it, in order to downgrade to M 4/3 or older dated EF glass, though alot of that glass is amazing also.  Pick a system and stick with it. G luck Again With Your Choice.

 

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6 hours ago, baker21 said:

Now my biggest FACTOR for going with the FS5, was ability of the internal ND, and the fact that I am heavily invest in sonys eco system.. Though with cine gear going forward, until sony releases the A7siii, which hopefully will be amazing for everyone.. Or if they release a new FX6 and FX3 both with internal NDs... it wouldnt shock me at all.. I could see a s1H type camera for 4K from sony with same color science with new internal nd, maybe that is the reason its taking so long. To get the internal ND small enough to go with IS.. man FX9 users will be mad.. But nothing sony isn't use to doing.. How you think all us A7Riii users felt when they dropped the A7riv, which plummeted our prices.. And look at BMPCC4K with the release of the 6K.. Its part of the camera business.. look what canon is about to drop in the R5, though my guess is it will be "canonified" and dummyed down..  Sony has their new S CINETONE which looks great on the FX9. but they can take a page out of panasonic book and charge $199 for the color science upgrade and release it in the Fx6 and Fx3..

The Sony S camera was about low light, and TBH, the low light int he standard A7iii has caught up b/c they all now use the new BSI chips which are amazing in lowlight.

Back to whether you pick BMPCC or FS5, it really is about what job you need it to do?


FX3??

Have you heard anything about an FX3 before??

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16 hours ago, baker21 said:

First off sorry for the length of the post and going off topic a bit here and there.. But I had similar choice a few weeks ago as you...

 

 

How do you justify the cost of the FS5 vs the cost of the BM P6K ? 

And why would your E glass investment matter when purchasing a cine camera?  Wouldn't you want cine glass ?

I would have went with the BMP6K for the price and image quality.  You spent a lot of money on the Atomos and FS5 when you could get better color and better image quality from the BM P6K.

 

Seems like you bought old technology to stay with Sony and have internal digital ND's

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Just now, Super8 said:

How do you justify the cost of the FS5 vs the cost of the BM P6K ? 

And why would your E glass investment matter when purchasing a cine camera?  Wouldn't you want cine glass ?

I would have went with the BMP6K for the price and image quality.  You spent a lot of money on the Atomos and FS5 when you could get better color and better image quality from the BM P6K.

form factor and internal ND's 

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2 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

yes

it's the truth!

We still rocking with C100MKII in 2020, though c200 is getting much more work lately.

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@baker21

I  bought my fs5 from a friend for only $2k. At first I didn't like it but it started to grow on me. The heavier body is better for handheld work, the grip is awesome, SDI, xlr inputs with great pre amps and the varible ND filter makes life easier.

I only shoot sports and have come to love the end trigger/end trigger half function, when I come home from a shoot, i'm only culling the highlights I recorded. No excess clips which saves hours in the editing process. 

I'm hoping the next FX6/FX3? has better low light performance and autofocus. 99% of the time I'd rather use a video camera than a photo style body like my A7iii for video.

 

MAK00092-01.jpeg

 

fuijcovert2_3.2.1.jpg

Fuji conversion_2.2.1.jpg

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Had a big gig last Sunday, first time using the 100 - 400 G master. Focus ring was surprisingly not aids. All FS5 @ 240fps in 1080p.

Hoping the A7SX gets 240fps in 10 bit like the fs5

 

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