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currensheldon

NAB 2019 Predictions and Wishes

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Here is my wishlist..

Canon:

The 8K C300 mk3 is already basically announced:

canon_cinema_eos_8k_camera_2.jpg?itok=iK

 

- The C100 mk2 is in dire need of an upgrade. a C100mk3 with 10-bit 4K 422 to SD (no CFAST raw) and pro res RAW out for $5-6K would do a killing in the cine cam market.

- Offer them in RF versions too..

Sony:

-  FS5/7 mk3 with new sensors, latest (A6400) gen AF & 10-bit XEVC codecs.

Fuji :

- A retro "digital bolex" cine cam which could be a mix design wise of:

fujica_zc10002.jpg

&

56298bd62f8246ec20ff42b2dbeb698a.jpg

- also add an MK cine prime lens trinity.

Nikon:

- Same as above (I'd really like to see smaller cine/video cams with built-in IBIS, battery/recorder options inside the pistol grip & flip out screen on the side):

29142d1361554940-cine-nikon-cinema-camer

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
58 minutes ago, Django said:

Here is my wishlist..

Canon:

The 8K C300 mk3 is already basically announced:

canon_cinema_eos_8k_camera_2.jpg?itok=iK

 

- The C100 mk2 is in dire need of an upgrade. a C100mk3 with 10-bit 4K 422 to SD (no CFAST raw) and pro res RAW out for $5-6K would do a killing in the cine cam market.

- Offer them in RF versions too..

Whenever they do release the C300 Mark III, I hope it comes with a fairly big design overhaul. The tower clamshell design was terrible for both monitoring and audio controls - and any sort of trying to make it more useable meant that you would probably lose audio inputs, audio controls, or have to use an external monitor. The C200 is pretty great with an awesome screen, so they could pretty much just follow that design philosophy. 

-

As I mentioned in the original post, I think the biggest opportunity for Canon (or anyone else) is in the C100 Mark III range. Especially since the video features in the EOS R(p) have been purposely crippled, it would make sense that they would release a lower level cinema camera with the RF mount and the 10-bit 422 4K that their mirrorless/dslr cameras lack (and the C200 lacks). Would be a big seller, I'd imagine. 

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Agreed but Sony also need to update their FS5 who can still only do 8-bit 420 4K at 100mbs max!

However, i doubt they will roll-out a mk3 so quickly (hasn't even been a year since mk2).

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I'm hoping that a small company pops-up that takes the internals of stock cameras and re-houses them with custom integrated add ons to make 'new' products.

There is definitely the scope for someone to take the guts of Pocket 4K for example and create something in a different but still compact form factor that sits in that £3-3.5K area that addresses what people are asking for with regard to internal electronic ND, better audio interface, power, an EVF etc

The volume may not be there for manufacturers to make something like that but there may well be enough demand for a small company to make a living from it.

 

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28 minutes ago, Django said:

Agreed but Sony also need to update their FS5 who can still only do 8-bit 420 4K at 100mbs max!

However, i doubt they will roll-out a mk3 so quickly (hasn't even been a year since mk2).

I have a feeling that if Canon outs out a C100 MarkIII or a XC-style camera, it will have very similar specs to the original FS5 (10-bit in HD and 8-bit in 4K) - just four years later. 

Yea the Mark II versions for the FS7 and FS5 were just small updates, I wouldn't be surprised if they did a bigger update sooner rather than later - especially for the FS7. If the FS5 could do the 10-bit 4K and get approved by the Netflix's of the world, I think it would pretty quickly become one of the more popular doc and doc-series cameras. But it still has that Sony image, so I'll just keep hoping Canon or Fuji do it as well. 

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55 minutes ago, currensheldon said:

[...]it would make sense that they would release a lower level cinema camera with the RF mount and the 10-bit 422 4K that their mirrorless/dslr cameras lack (and the C200 lacks).

Not going to happen. You should know this company by now. No way Canon will release a successor to the C100 II with a better Codec than on the C200. Even Sony would't do that. What may will come one day is a C100 with 4k30p in 8bit 420 and no RAW. CanonRumors suggested the first RF-Cinema-Camera will not come before the end of 2019 and that it will be the C300 upgrade. So prepare to be disappointed...

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Actually, the latest Canonrumors article starts off with: We’re told to expect an “exciting” new cinema camera, possible ahead of NAB in April. 

You are right though, I don't see Canon placing a better 4K codec than the C200 inside a C100 mk3. Even 10-bit HD is a stretch. Not the Canon way. 10-bit will be external only.

 

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2 minutes ago, Django said:

Actually, the latest Canonrumors article starts off with: We’re told to expect an “exciting” new cinema camera, possible ahead of NAB in April. 

You are right though, I don't see Canon placing a better 4K codec than the C200 inside a C100 mk3. Even 10-bit HD is a stretch. Not the Canon way. 10-bit will be external only.

 

Oh, thanks for pointing out that new rumor. I wonder if the C300 III will already have an RF mount if it is announced at NAB. My hope is that Canon will give the C200 a better lower/middle ground recording option (XF-AVC 8bit422 or even 10bit422) once the C300 goes 8K or Full Frame or both (and yeah, I know that's wishful thinking too)... 

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I feel like Canon has made it clear that the C200 is a raw camera that also has other shooting options, so I wouldn't be too, too surprised (this is Canon after all) if they released a non-raw camera that does have a 4K 10-bit codec. It's definitely not a "better" codec than the C200's raw, but it is way more useful for most of my applications (and I would think most shooters in the sub $10k camera range). And yes, I guess they do have the C300II for 10-bit 4K, but it is 4 year old camera that is terribly designed. 

The only hope for Canon is if they go all out on the C300 Mark III and stop worrying about Mark II sales. The existence of the C300 Mark II at $10k is a main reason the C200 doesn't have a good middle-ground codec and that no C100 Mark III exists. 

My two main needs for a cinema camera are:
- 10-bit 4K Codec and
- Small, lightweight design (FS5-sized or smaller).

How the main 4-5 manufacturers haven't released a camera like that by 2019 is a mystery to me. 

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5 minutes ago, currensheldon said:

My two main needs for a cinema camera are:
- 10-bit 4K Codec and
- Small, lightweight design (FS5-sized or smaller).

How the main 4-5 manufacturers haven't released a camera like that by 2019 is a mystery to me. 

Hallelujah!

An XC design of such a camera would be Godsend.

In pro world - not high end - a 10bit codec is a must, raw - not, but of course I wouldn't mind raw for free (like in P4K).

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2 minutes ago, Django said:

Panasonic has:

eva1+(1+of+1).jpg

Yes the EVA-1 was really close. I like that camera and have used it on quite a few jobs. Codec-wise and image wise, it's incredible. Would love something a bit smaller with a modern mount (for adapters/speedboosters) and a useable screen. When you're going for a small footprint, an external monitor with more batteries and chargers isn't ideal.

But this is closest! I'm being very picky here - haha

 

 

2 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Hallelujah!

An XC design of such a camera would be Godsend.

In pro world - not high end - a 10bit codec is a must, raw - not, but of course I wouldn't mind raw for free (like in P4K).

Agreed - and if it's someone who can disrupt a bit (like Fuji), then throw in some IBIS while you're at it. 

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4 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Ideally, a Fuji XH2 which according to my spec would be; updated XH1 to include larger battery, XT3 sensor. Maybe in 2020...

However, right now, they could cease XH1 sales and knock out an XH1S with just the sensor of the XT3. Easily.

 

I am thinking the XH2 will just be an XH1 with an XT3 sensor and faster processor. Hopefully better IBIS.

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1 hour ago, currensheldon said:

I feel like Canon has made it clear that the C200 is a raw camera that also has other shooting options

How and when did they say this? Never took notice of any information like that.

1 hour ago, currensheldon said:

The only hope for Canon is if they go all out on the C300 Mark III and stop worrying about Mark II sales. The existence of the C300 Mark II at $10k is a main reason the C200 doesn't have a good middle-ground codec and that no C100 Mark III exists. 

Canon did state in an Interview after the C200 release that they could not do a better recording option for technical reasons. But I believe that is just a lame excuse. The C200 has dual processors just like the C300 II, only it's the newer version (Digic DV6 vers. DV5 in the C300 II). So yeah, let's hope they have a moment of mercy and just level up the C200 once the C300 III is out... 

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15 hours ago, currensheldon said:

Yea I think we'll see a C300 Mark III before we see anything in the C100/XC-RF range. But I do feel like Canon would do really well to put out a documentary/journalism camera in the $5-$6k range, but to do that it would HAVE to have what many outlets require now (10-bit 422 4K), even just at 24-30fps. Their lineup should be C300 for 6-8k raw plus higher frame rates for cinema and high-end jobs, C200 for low cost raw but not an every day workhorse, and a C100 for the solo-shooter documentary and journalism camera. 

I feel like the C100 line up is more "outdated" than the C300 line up, so logically the C100 series should get the  update first?

But who knows, this is Canon, not sure how much sensible logic applies to them....

 

15 hours ago, currensheldon said:

I would say these are two that I'm most excited about (since I'm assuming Canon will let me down). Fuji could do really well since they have no high-end to protect and that amazing lens lineup, film color profiles, and cinema history. 

I would have made the EVA-1 my main camera if it would have had an MFT mount. That camera with a Super35mm sensor + a speedbooster would have been amazing. Add MFT lens support with the JVC LS300's sensor punch-in for small and light options and it would have been great.

Yeah, I can't believe Panasonic was so dumb to abandoned their faithful GH series users when they brought out their "replacement" to the AF100

We can likely blame this on infighting between the consumer and pro divisions :-/

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1 hour ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I am thinking the XH2 will just be an XH1 with an XT3 sensor and faster processor. Hopefully better IBIS.

I think if it's going to be a 2020 product as most think likely, they have to move their battery game on.

I'm one of the few that doesn't really have an issue with it and can get 1000-1500 frames out of a single battery on any recent X cam, but seem to be in a minority.

But the two things folks seem to want is a bigger battery (and the equiv Sony does kill it!) and a flippy screen. Personally, not bothered with the flippy either as I use an external monitor for video on my XT3 and the standard tilty job on the XH1 is all I need for stills.

If they don't do something about the battery though, the internet and YouTube are just going to bleat about it!

Maybe even the battery from the GFX series? It exists, - just got to make a body to take it surely plus a bit of electronic tweakery?

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8 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

I think if it's going to be a 2020 product as most think likely, they have to move their battery game on.

I'm one of the few that doesn't really have an issue with it and can get 1000-1500 frames out of a single battery on any recent X cam, but seem to be in a minority.

But the two things folks seem to want is a bigger battery (and the equiv Sony does kill it!) and a flippy screen. Personally, not bothered with the flippy either as I use an external monitor for video on my XT3 and the standard tilty job on the XH1 is all I need for stills.

If they don't do something about the battery though, the internet and YouTube are just going to bleat about it!

Maybe even the battery from the GFX series? It exists, - just got to make a body to take it surely plus a bit of electronic tweakery?

Yeah the XH line is supposed to be video oriented so it should have a flip screen. I agree a new battery is in order, though Fuji's solution seems to be a battery grip. They really need to get their grip tech together. The camera stops recording when batteries switch  😕. The XH2 should also have no record limits at least in 4k 30p. If its a video camera it really should have that.

4 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

My prediction is 8k S35 in a slightly larger body than the E2.

I'd only be interested if it has better low light performance than the E2. If 8k is going to hurt ISO performance I am not interested. 
Definitely would be a pretty innovative camera especially if its under 3k. 

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7 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I'd only be interested if it has better low light performance than the E2. If 8k is going to hurt ISO performance I am not interested. 
Definitely would be a pretty innovative camera especially if its under 3k.

Hopefully, yeah. I don't see why low light would necessarily be worse, if they do a full readout and have a fair comparison (4k vs 4k). I find the XT3 has good enough low light for me, so as long as it isn't much worse than that I'd be happy.

I wonder what mount they would go with for S35. I'd love to see MFT a la that JVC camera, or if they surprised everyone and threw in with the L mount lot.

3k would be nice, but my gut says more like 4k. Fingers crossed though!

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