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Andrew Reid

Huawei P20 Pro is superb

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14 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

40MP RAW

Quad Bayer is the future... It has dynamic range like I've never seen from a small sensor.

Completely and utterly destroys iPhone X camera, which I had been very satisfied with.

Proof coming soon :)

It's quite easy to destroy the iPhone X camera in terms of dynamic range though. Clips basically every highlight.

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12 hours ago, Tone1k said:

iPhone is Chinese. 

I have the original One Plus One (cheap Chinese) and while I've moved on to a Samsung, the one plus is still going strong and I use it when I travel OS. 

Lol.  That was genuinely funny.

Quote

The Pentagon has banned the sale of Huawei and ZTE phones on US military bases worldwide, the US Department of Defense confirmed to CNET on Wednesday.

The ban is based on the potential security threat the Pentagon believes the phones from the China-based companies may pose. It's the latest move in an ongoing crackdown on the two companies by the US government, which is suspicious that they could hack into their phones and use them to spy for the Chinese government.

"Huawei and ZTE devices may pose an unacceptable risk to Department's personnel, information and mission," said Pentagon spokesman Major Dave Eastburn. "In light of this information, it was not prudent for the Department's exchanges to continue selling them to DoD personnel."

https://www.cnet.com/news/pentagon-reportedly-bans-sale-of-huawei-and-zte-phones-on-us-military-bases/

Quote

US lawmakers have long worried about the security risks posed the alleged ties between Chinese companies Huawei and ZTE and the country’s government. To that end, Texas Representative Mike Conaway introduced a bill last week called Defending U.S. Government Communications Act, which aims to ban US government agencies from using phones and equipment from the companies.

Conaway’s bill would prohibit the US government from purchasing and using “telecommunications equipment and/or services,” from Huawei and ZTE. In a statement on his site, he says that technology coming from the country poses a threat to national security, and that use of this equipment “would be inviting Chinese surveillance into all aspects of our lives,” and cites US Intelligence and counterintelligence officials who say that Huawei has shared information with state leaders, and that the its business in the US is growing, representing a further security risk.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/14/16890110/new-bill-ban-huawei-zte-phones-tech-congress-mike-conaway-cybersecurity

Quote

AT&T walked away from a deal to sell the Huawei smartphone, the Mate 10, to customers in the United States just before the partnership was set to be unveiled, two people familiar with the plans said on Tuesday, speaking on the condition of anonymity because the discussions were not public. The Wall Street Journal reported earlier that AT&T had changed plans.

The reasons that led to AT&T’s shift were not entirely clear. But last month, a group of lawmakers wrote a letter to the Federal Communications Commission expressing misgivings about a potential deal between Huawei and an unnamed American telecommunications company to sell its consumer products in the United States. It cited longstanding concerns among some lawmakers about what they said were Huawei’s ties to the Chinese government.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/09/business/att-huawei-mate-smartphone.html

Quote

Australia is preparing to ban Huawei Technologies Co Ltd from supplying equipment for its planned 5G broadband network after its intelligence agencies raised concerns that Beijing could force the Chinese telco to hand over sensitive data, two sources said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-australia-china-huawei-tech/australia-prepares-to-ban-huawei-from-5g-project-over-security-fears-idUSKBN1K111O

 

I left facebook years ago.  I never bothered with twitter, instagram, or any of the other social media platforms.  It was clear fairly early on which direction things were going to go.  The only thing that surprises me in 2018 is that people are surprised.  I guess the same thing will be true of Chinese phones ten years from now.  At least law makers are somewhat ahead of the curve on this one.  It is great that they are banning these phones.

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I was a little disappointed when I went from my ZTE Nubia Z9 to the Huawei P10 Plus (long live Chinese phones, been 10 years of dualSIM phones from there now).

The P20 Pro definitely is the right step up. Gotta love that you've got 3x zoom availlable. Compactcameras will get a harder and harder time like this (that's why we see ridiculous stuff like the Nikon P1000 with 125x zoom emerge, they're desperate to pull a gap of some sorts). Only really see room for the premiumcompacts. Wish Panasonic would've followed up on the LX100 already. Fujifilm just announced their XF10, interesting little thing that really takes the core of shooting stills and why shooting on film with the likes of a Ricoh GR1v, Contax T2/T3 or Fuji's Klasse S/W has gained such a traction in the last few years, bringing things back to the roots. Of course the Ricoh GRII really capitalized on that. But the new Fuji is an under-500-bucks camera that features an APS-C sensor and a 28mm (equiv.) f/2.8. Seems targeted towards the hipstagram generation, but I hope it's more than a gimmick. Otherwise indeed... why not use your smartphone?

A smartphone for me is just quick snaps, I just don't like the ergomics or anything for actually getting serious with, so I can't say I've looked into the greater possibilities. I kinda don't get the 'let's make a movie with a smartphone'-movement either. I guess it's easier to draw attention to yourself that way ('ooh, did you hear about that one short that was solely shot on a phone?'). I find that kind of cheap and silly. Especially when people use all kind of smartphone rigs and glass... then I'm just like: why not use a legit camera? But oh well, to each their own.

Can't say that I'm like super impressed with the P20 Pro. For a smartphone, I guess it's alright... if you let the AI do its thing though... it's the worst. 90% it managed to ruin a scene with its 'smart' manipulations. Video really isn't great either. But then again, that's why I'll keep on saying: use the right tool for the job. For me it's alright for personal use and sharing a couple of snaps on Whatsapp... but if quality stills is what I want, the Ricoh GRII or Panasonic G9 are most likely what I'll take with me. If it's video: the GH5 or BMPCC. I'm also in love with the way certain lenses give a certain look, so interchangeable lens systems will always have a prominent place in my arsenal.

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You have to persevere and look past the AI and JPEGs. Seems I gotta keep saying it... shoot 40MP raw and not the 10MP JPEGs, but I would think that would be obvious, especially when it's the main selling point of the phone, it happens in built in camera app, no third party app required, and it's fast to save a shot, less than 1 second in fact, which is amazing considering the resolution.

Here is the iPhone X vs P20 Pro RAW. Click for full size...

iPhone X

iphone-x.jpg

P20 Pro DNG

p20-pro.jpg

Until now phones have seen little benefit to their raw modes, with perhaps Samsung being best of the raw bunch. iPhone X and Google Pixel XL actually take a step backwards in raw, especially in low light.

As for video, yes iPhone X is much better.

200% blow up of 100% crops...

P20 Pro

IMG_20180706_200701-p20.jpg

iPhone X

IMG_4340-200pc-x.jpg

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It looks like we may have more phone using a similar stack sensor from Sony.

 

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/201807/18-060E/index.html

Tokyo, Japan—Sony Corporation today announced the upcoming release of the IMX586 stacked CMOS image sensor for smartphone cameras. The new sensor features 48 effective megapixels*2, the industry’s highest pixel count.*1 The new product achieved a world-first*3 ultra-compact pixel size of 0.8 μm, making it possible to pack 48 effective megapixels*2 onto a 1/2-type (8.0 mm diagonal) unit, thereby supporting enhanced imaging on smartphone cameras.

The new sensor uses the Quad Bayer color filter array, where adjacent 2x2 pixels come in the same color, making high-sensitivity shooting possible. During low light shooting, the signals from the four adjacent pixels are added, raising the sensitivity to a level equivalent to that of 1.6 μm pixels (12 megapixels), resulting in bright, low noise images.
In addition to these advantages, original Sony exposure control technology and signal processing functionality are built into the image sensor, enabling real-time output and a superior dynamic range four times greater than conventional units. Even scenes with both bright and dark areas can be captured with minimal highlight blowout or loss of detail in shadows.

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The non Pro versio of the Huawei P20 takes better raw pictures than the pro version IMHO. I found out that the best balance between photo and video is in the Samsung Galaxy S9. Best video quality is Sony XZ2 but lacks photo raw support and 4k 60p. Lg G7 also has very nice lens and video but the sensors lack in dynamic range. Its incredible what can be achieved nowadays with a good phone, both in video an photo. Raw helps a lot in photo because jpeg phone algorithms seem to be balanced to social media and to look sharp when reduced to "intagram" size. Xiaomi and ZTE have the best ( natural ) sharpening algorithms IMHO. Apple is out of the game in every way except color.

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We did a little research for an all arounder in the family a couple of months ago and we bought the S9+. 

For work, I bought the LG G6 last year, and it is still going strong, recently got Oreo and another upgrade, while its second cam is an ultra wide one, that I enjoy more than any other cam I have ever used (phone cam I meam obv!). Nowwdays is dead cheap too.

LG is back since the G6, and with the new V series. Give them a look.

Another extra is the low SAR numbers of the Koreans. That was one of the selling point for us, while Apple, Xiaomi and Huawei usually are close to the permitted limits.

In day time its processing is more pleasing to me, but in darker environments the small sensor (smaller than the latest flagship phones) is very limited.

All in all, I have vastly better quality with my NX500+30mm 2f pancake, or the 16-50PZ.

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9 hours ago, hoodlum said:

It looks like we may have more phone using a similar stack sensor from Sony.

 

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/201807/18-060E/index.html

Tokyo, Japan—Sony Corporation today announced the upcoming release of the IMX586 stacked CMOS image sensor for smartphone cameras. The new sensor features 48 effective megapixels*2, the industry’s highest pixel count.*1 The new product achieved a world-first*3 ultra-compact pixel size of 0.8 μm, making it possible to pack 48 effective megapixels*2 onto a 1/2-type (8.0 mm diagonal) unit, thereby supporting enhanced imaging on smartphone cameras.

The new sensor uses the Quad Bayer color filter array, where adjacent 2x2 pixels come in the same color, making high-sensitivity shooting possible. During low light shooting, the signals from the four adjacent pixels are added, raising the sensitivity to a level equivalent to that of 1.6 μm pixels (12 megapixels), resulting in bright, low noise images.
In addition to these advantages, original Sony exposure control technology and signal processing functionality are built into the image sensor, enabling real-time output and a superior dynamic range four times greater than conventional units. Even scenes with both bright and dark areas can be captured with minimal highlight blowout or loss of detail in shadows.

"3.Four times greater dynamic range than previous products and real time output

Original Sony exposure control technology and signal processing functionality are built into the image sensor, enabling real-time output and a superior dynamic range that is four times greater than conventional products. Even scenes with both bright and dark areas can be captured with minimal highlight blowout or loss of detail in shadows while viewing the image on the smartphone display."

I read in one of the debates online that the ISPs of Snapdragon were not ideal for bringing out the full potential of smartphone camera sensors, and that many of those functions have now been built into the sensor to improve with dynamic range among other things. 

 

The sensor also does Full Res (48MP) @ 30fps, 4k at 90fps and 1080p at 240fps. I can see further score for image quality improvement via photo stacking, and HDR video.

This probably also means that Smartphone SoCs are moving to Much Higher Resolution Photos and way more photo processing power now (one of the Major shortcomings of the l16 light camera).

This in dual or triple sensor combinations with 12MP (perhaps B&W) sensors of 1/2.3" and larger will have some seriously amazing low light capabilites, and hopefully with another sensor, some great zoom capabilities too.

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