sanveer Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 25 minutes ago, Cinegain said: The E2 just seems too much of a hassle to get operational (and intended that way too) Because they want to sell a lot of accessories to make it even usable, thereby adding another $1000-1500 to the $1999 price tag. Which I think is Highway Robbery. Starting from a Top Handle or Rig to even hold the camera. The only thing I suspect, is that in terms of hardware capabilities alone, the E2 seens to have a lot more processing power than the BMPCC4k and GH5s. Though with that tiny body, I would not be surprised if it has Sony-like heating issues and double as a toaster or induction cooker. 29 minutes ago, Cinegain said: The GH5S also claimed 13 stops I believe, but then the reality of 11 or so stops or something kicks in. They claimed 12 stops with Vlog (13 stops is for RAW stills). It may actually have about 11.5 stops or so, which is respectable to be fair. Especially since it is not shooting in RAW. And the codec is pretty pushable in post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 I am not that sure that the ZCam E2 needs much to get operational. If this camera is used for the stuff it is intended aka tethered shooting, then you only need a power source. Battery or cable. Also don't forget that you can use your phone through the USB-C as a monitor, no dongle necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinegain Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Yeah, I think in a studio, at an operator's station or jib it's quite alright. But for the Lumix/BMPCC generation this isn't the thing you'd want to work with. It's modular, but not like the Kinefinity cameras or that CRAFT digital cinema camera that was doomed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanveer Posted April 13, 2018 Author Share Posted April 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Don Kotlos said: I am not that sure that the ZCam E2 needs much to get operational. If this camera is used for the stuff like it is intended aka tethered shooting, then you only need a power source. Battery or cable. Also don't forget that you can use your phone through the USB-C as a monitor, no dongle necessary. You could be right about monitoring it via a Tablet or Smartphone. But what about a handle? How does even hold it? Also I don't even see a hot shoe or cold shoe mount to attach things to it. I also checked it again from Every Direction Possible. It seems to have a set of fans on the top and bottom (it has open vents). I guess that must be why it can be so tiny without getting terribly hot. Also, it has these open 1/4" everywhere to directly mount things on it, thus getting rid of using a rig for maybe some functions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 2 hours ago, IronFilm said: MFT sized. Yeah, but origin? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 hour ago, sanveer said: This review is filled with strange errors from sensor size, to ports to everything else. The author was in a hurry to make a comparison and did not bother to actually check all the details Wolfcrow makes a habit of this. Rushing to be first. Rushing to be first wrong that is!! sanveer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Kotlos Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 Yeah, even his conclusions are strange to say the least: "The only way the Blackmagic Design Pocket Camera 4K can beat the GH5 is in terms of sheer image quality – dynamic range and color science." But really, aren't all the comparisons of cameras that haven't been even released rushed? anonim 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonim Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 2 hours ago, sanveer said: This review is filled with strange errors from sensor size, to ports to everything else. The author was in a hurry to make a comparison and did not bother to actually check all the details. Which is unfortunate, because I have watched some of his videos and also read some of his posts, and I quite like what I saw and read. I only posted a screenshot of the Conclusions Table. I could have pointed out errors in many places, but I didn't want to write a thesis on it. Too much effort and would have been too boring. Also, I must point out, that Blackmagic for some curious reason has advertised the height of the sensor as being less (much like how Panasonic was being secretive about the Exact Specs of the sensor on the GH5s). Most likely the kinnefinity 4k also sports the same sensor with the same dual ISO and sub 35mm sensor being the hint. Maybe I'm in risk to look stupid, but I found this recap quite ok - it just look strange first raw, but from the explanation it turned also acceptable with some more clarification arguments: GH5 because of 20mb sensor, GH5s because of lowlight, maybe equal with BMPCC... I think that his point is similar to mine: accent to a working process as whole... all possible situations and tasks. But it seems to me that all of comparisons specs vise (aside of fact that BMPCC and little one still are not at disposal) make pretty logical and clear conclusion: if someone need IBIS (as me), or is hard fan of anamorphic shooting, there's no other choice than GH5; for more extreme low light, for more refined image or for pure enjoy in postproduction work - BMPCC, or GH5s if dropped the price - as only one, or as suplement to GH5 for those who need IBIS. I just can't agree with excluding of GH5 by judging practical results of achievable image quality - and I'm glad that wolf... think the same. After all, they all are extremely capable defenders of great values of m43 system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 47 minutes ago, anonim said: I just can't agree with excluding of GH5 by judging practical results of achievable image quality - and I'm glad that wolf... think the same. After all, they all are extremely capable defenders of great values of m43 system. Yeah but I don't really consider the GH5 as a "Cine" camera like I consider the GH5s one. Even the Color Science is better in it than the GH5. It is not as Panny looking as the GH5. It is more toward the EVA1 than the GH5. And Dual ISO, Tons better low light, hell. And I don't give a crap about IBIS for a Cine camera. On sticks you have to turn it off, even the OIS on the lens has to be turned off if it has it. I like the GH5s, but it is out of my price range, especially with the new BMPCC 4k out. I Really don't like the GH5 output. Now like has been stated, if you are into Anamorphic, well you Have to go the GH5 route to get the best out of it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: Yeah but I don't really consider the GH5 as a "Cine" camera like I consider the GH5s one. Even the Color Science is better in it than the GH5. It is not as Panny looking as the GH5. It is more toward the EVA1 than the GH5. And Dual ISO, Tons better low light, hell. And I don't give a crap about IBIS for a Cine camera. On sticks you have to turn it off, even the OIS on the lens has to be turned of if it has it. I like the GH5s, but it is out of my price range, especially with the new BM 4k out. I really don't like the GH5 output. Now like has been stated if you are into Anamorphic well you Have to go the GH5 route. All well and good. Just wanted to chime in that on just a few occasions I accidentally forgot to turn off IBIS when my camera was on a tripod and nothing bad happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonim Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: Yeah but I don't really consider the GH5 as a "Cine" camera like I consider the GH5s one. Even the Color Science is better in it than the GH5. It is not as Panny looking as the GH5. It is more toward the EVA1 than the GH5. And Dual ISO, Tons better low light, hell. And I don't give a crap about IBIS for a Cine camera. Instead of debating with subjective consideration, I posted at previous page one example, "Dies Somnum"... for me it is quite enough "cinematic". I'll be really glad to hear concrete critics about its quality instead of big suggestive words, such as... giving of crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 10 minutes ago, jonpais said: All well and good. Just wanted to chime in that on just a few occasions I accidentally forgot to turn off IBIS when my camera was on a tripod and nothing bad happened. On average you probably won't see the difference but there are situations when it will. I was guilty a lot doing the same thing with my Oly EM1. They do recommend you turn it off on a tripod for "best results" 10 minutes ago, anonim said: Instead of debating with subjective consideration, I posted at previous page one example, "Dies Somnum"... for me it is quite enough "cinematic". I'll be really glad to hear concrete critics about its quality instead of big suggestive words, such as... giving of crap. Luke shot that. He is one of the best film makers and editors on here. He had damn good Anamorphic lens also. Panasonic didn't pick him because he is clueless. We on average on here sure as hell are not going to get footage that looks like that, plus a hell of a lot of it was shot in dark conditions. Hardly a way to judge the output of a camera. I don't consider that "Normal Output" from that camera. He has a lot of talent. And talent can make ANY camera look great. That video came out more than a year ago. I have not seen anyone else on here produce better or equal footage with a GH5. Luke could probably take a Barbie Cam and make it look good! I have seen great stuff out of a GH2, an iPhone, but it Ain't normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonim Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: I don't consider that "Normal Output" from that camera. So there are normal and abnormal outputs... And first we all have to pass (your) estimation of talent. In fact, "Dies Somnum" is not normal nor abnormal, it is not miracle, it is simply nice footage from GH5 in controlled conditions - for which GH5 is actually quite appropriate and intended to be one of the tools of respectable choice. And it passed accurate color grading - with treatment that quite easy match GH5 and GH5s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 anonim - out of likes for today. Of course operator skill is the single most important factor. Deezid just posted some great looking footage from the GH5, and I’ve seen others do nice work with it as well. But if @webrunner5 doesn’t care for the GH5, no big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 18 minutes ago, anonim said: So there are normal and abnormal outputs... And first we all have to pass (your) estimation of talent.I Yep, sorry that is the way it is. I have been around the block a few times as they say. There are talented people, and not so talented. Such is life on all fronts. Panasonic, Sony, Oly, Red, who ever is going to pick the most talented people to shoot in the whole world demo footage with a new camera. So yeah they get the best you can get out of those cameras. Can I do that, no, can most of us, well maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonim Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: Yep, sorry that is the way it is. I have been around the block a few times as they say. There are talented people, and not so talented. Such is life on all fronts. So, as it turned out in case of GH5 - not talented people are responsible for normal output, talented - for abnormal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, anonim said: So, as it turned out in case of GH5 - not talented people are responsible for normal output, talented - for abnormal Yes I believe you are right. You have seen the light. The average person is not going to get the best out of any camera.Even this new BMPCC 4k. I would argue most people will not be talented enough to even begin to get the best footage out of it. Editing ProRes, especially Cinema DNG Raw ain't easy by any means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 So if someone doesn’t have talent, they should just stick with the GH5. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, jonpais said: So if someone doesn’t have talent, they should just stick with the GH5. ? Yeah probably. Save money and just buy a GH4. No HDR in it, that is a plus by the way. The GH5 is a Great video Hybrid camera, but I don't consider it a Cine camera. And that is what this tread is about, Cine cameras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, webrunner5 said: Yeah probably. Save money and just buy a GH4. No HDR in it, that is a plus by the way. If it’s got V-log, you can still shoot HDR, so better off finding one without. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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