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Andrew Reid

Canon M50 mirrorless camera features 4K video

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15 minutes ago, markr041 said:

The M50's AF works even better in 1080 than any Panasonic - dual pixel beats CD any day.

The complaints are that in 4K the AF is lousy in the M50 because it is not dual pixel, just like for all Panasonics for any resolution.

Obviously PDAF wins every time but I'm just saying in 1080p Panasonic's AF is quite usable for vlogging and you get the benefit of IBIS, light and varied lenses, better quality 1080p. 

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There's about 5 years of pent-up demand in Canon's fanbase for affordable 4K video with a decent spec.

So this is a right slap in the face whichever way you look at it.

An entry level camera is $350. This is $900.

Here's the main innovation - Canon has realised that the days of savvy customers carefully researching a camera and weighing up the pros and cons is long gone, what makes the big money is YouTube and celebrity stars with massive social media followings pushing products on their followers.

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3 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

There's about 5 years of pent-up demand in Canon's fanbase for affordable 4K video with a decent spec.

So this is a right slap in the face whichever way you look at it.

An entry level camera is $350. This is $900.

Here's the main innovation - Canon has realised that the days of savvy customers carefully researching a camera and weighing up the pros and cons is long gone, what makes the big money is YouTube and celebrity stars with massive social media followings pushing products on their followers.

Canon just got the bigger picture, just not for semi or professional producers

 

in the total 4 billion online users, how many of them are actually viewing the videos in 4k?

in sites like eoshd, cinema5d, probably over 50%

but in reality, I would be so surprised to get a number over 3% who got 4k screen and enough computing power to actually play 4k

 

the truth is 4k is not the mainstream and will never be in the next 5 years, the bottle neck also includes the popular smartphone display resolutions and network bandwidth.

for an average user, M50 is acceptable camera and lenses from Canon are a lot cheaper. it's affordable and nothing serious

 

for people who is dealing with real customers, get the a6300, a6500, a7riii, a7sii, gh5 etc

 

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Im going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't think Canon "can" do any readout other than a crude 1:1 sensor readout and deBayer technique. We know that Sony has fully mastered 6k readout, deBayer image processing and seemless downsampling to 4k today. Sony Semiconductor WILL sell it if Canon wants to pay for it. Hell, Panasonic was only doing simple 1:1 readout in 4k too. They bite the bullet and buy Sony 1inch-type sensors and also Sony's IMX272 for their GH5 and BOOM! Now Panny has 6k/5k overnight with no problem!

I suspect Canon is WAY too proud to buy Sony 6k scaling engine or sensor readout patents.

So?....Canon is still stuck in 1:1 readout.

This means in 4k you get 1/2 resolution green channel and 1/4 resolution red and blue.

Crap....

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1 minute ago, Cliff Totten said:

Im going to go out on a limb here and say that I don't think Canon "can" do any readout other than a crude 1:1 sensor readout and deBayer technique. We know that Sony has fully mastered 6k readout, deBayer image processing and seemless downsampling to 4k today. Sony Semiconductor WILL sell it if Canon wants to pay for it. Hell, Panasonic was only doing simple 1:1 readout in 4k too. They bite the bullet and buy Sony 1inch-type sensors and Sony IMX272 for their GH5 and BOOM! Now Panny has 6k/5k overnight with no problem!

I suspect Canon is WAY too proud to buy Sony 6k scaling engine or sensor readout patents.

So?....Canon is still stuck in 1:1 readout. 

how about Fuji? did they buy that from Sony?

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8 minutes ago, eoslover said:

Canon just got the bigger picture, just not for semi or professional producers

in the total 4 billion online users, how many of them are actually viewing the videos in 4k?

in sites like eoshd, cinema5d, probably over 50%

but in reality, I would be so surprised to get a number over 3% who got 4k screen and enough computing power to actually play 4k

Ok but why not also addressing this part of the market? Why ignoring a few percent shares in a declining market? The minority of "video enthusiast" and "run and gun pro" like us is a market share (and one with good money to spend). Why does Canon keep ignoring 3 or 5% of this market? Obviously this is hardware crippling, yet Sony and Pana both have nice B Cam with the A7 series and GH5s to complement the FS and EVA pro cam.

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27 minutes ago, OliKMIA said:

Ok but why not also addressing this part of the market? Why ignoring a few percent shares in a declining market? The minority of "video enthusiast" and "run and gun pro" like us is a market share (and one with good money to spend). Why does Canon keep ignoring 3 or 5% of this market? Obviously this is hardware crippling, yet Sony and Pana both have nice B Cam with the A7 series and GH5s to complement the FS and EVA pro cam.

Well like it or not, thats what the XC10/15 is for.

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29 minutes ago, OliKMIA said:

Ok but why not also addressing this part of the market? Why ignoring a few percent shares in a declining market? The minority of "video enthusiast" and "run and gun pro" like us is a market share (and one with good money to spend). Why does Canon keep ignoring 3 or 5% of this market? Obviously this is hardware crippling, yet Sony and Pana both have nice B Cam with the A7 series and GH5s to complement the FS and EVA pro cam.

Okay valid point but you cannot expect Canon to cater to 4-5% market share with their entry level mirrorless camera. If they were going to give the C200 a hybrid B-Cam, it would be a $2000 + camera. 

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32 minutes ago, OliKMIA said:

Ok but why not also addressing this part of the market? Why ignoring a few percent shares in a declining market? The minority of "video enthusiast" and "run and gun pro" like us is a market share (and one with good money to spend). Why does Canon keep ignoring 3 or 5% of this market? Obviously this is hardware crippling, yet Sony and Pana both have nice B Cam with the A7 series and GH5s to complement the FS and EVA pro cam.

I am pretty sure Canon will, eventually with the increasing number of users shooting in 4k

from the design perspective M50 is an entry level camera, very much like SL2.

M50 is just a test of Canon finally going full 4k with Digic 8 processor

so there will be M5 Mark II, 90D, both probably can use DPAF in 4k  very soon

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27 minutes ago, Cliff Totten said:

I dunno....Sony Semiconductor sells its chips and leases its patents to anybody. ( with the exception of BlackMagic Design??)

Of course, the top Fuji sensors are made by Sony on a Fuji design. Sony does manufacture the sensors, it custom made them as well. Nikon also has a saying on the sensors they buy from there. Sony dominates the sensor market at the moment, but I am sure that will change, but not very soon. There is a lot of money on imaging sensors - and a lot of uses, to leave it only to one manufacturer.

I am certain this camera will sell a lot, but it is not an entry level model, is a mid-low one. Entry starts from 350-400euros these days.

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the reason canon is crippling it's entry level 4k camera is simply because they have to upsell more expensive 4k cameras, if they give all the goodies with the entry level camera how are they going to sell the more expensive cameras in their line. sony also have many 4k cameras but they chose not cripple their entry level 4k capable cameras -  it is different marketing strategies.

 

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1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

There's about 5 years of pent-up demand in Canon's fanbase for affordable 4K video with a decent spec.

So this is a right slap in the face whichever way you look at it.

An entry level camera is $350. This is $900.

Here's the main innovation - Canon has realised that the days of savvy customers carefully researching a camera and weighing up the pros and cons is long gone, what makes the big money is YouTube and celebrity stars with massive social media followings pushing products on their followers.

Vloggers could care less about 4k - there are so many tangible benefits to having 1080p in a format where image is not king. Not least of which is having a computer and editing system to edit the video smoothly and not having to spending hours rendering, etc.

The only people that care are people like us on the forums. But this camera ISNT made for us - it is targeted at vloggers, hence giving PM the first review. 

So saying that it isn't an entry level camera because it will set you back $900 takes you nowhere. The correct way of looking at it is identifying their target market, and then placing it against its competitors in that market. I don't see any camera that beats this for 1080p imagery in the vlog sphere.

Other cameras will come in bigger bodies hopefully with better features - we just have to be patient. Otherwise, you can always get the a6500 with it unviewable backscreen in 4k.   

     

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20 minutes ago, mercer said:

Can we at least all agree that this camera is CANON’s entry level mirrorless? They specifically state that in their release.

It doesn’t matter what other manufacturers charge for their entry level camera. This is the lowest camera in their mirrorless line.

No. I am sorry.

The entry level, lowest camera in the M line is the M100, but even the M3 is still on the shelves.
I would neither consider an 800 USD camera as entry level. For this price, the M50 is rather an insult.

Actually, the whole M-line is a mess. Incomprehensible naming, i.e. segmentation, mediocre lens line-up, and empty marketing buzzwords. The "5-axis "image stabilization is "non-axis", as Canon uses electronic, software-based picture make-up, The 4K is a joke, huge crop, no dual pixel AF, and on this "Vlogging-monster" the microphone input blocks the articulated screen.

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5 hours ago, markr041 said:

Pro-wannabe's and pretenders of course claim they use manual focus exclusively. Only amateurs, tourists, and hobbyists "need" AF. :) 

Well, I'm a wanna-be-something that's curious as to why AF is important to vloggers is all.  Seems like many more staid vloggers could just avoid the camera messing up focus by simply not using AF.

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