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Panasonic GH5S 4K / 240fps low light monster


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2 hours ago, Dimitris Stasinos said:

But those exaggerated claims like: "We asked the pros and they said NO, IBIS sucks, don't implement this, cinema cameras don't have IBIS, leave this off board please", cmon these are bullsh$t... GH5's target group (i am talking about the majority here) does not mount their cameras on cars, and even if they will, the proper way is to put the camera on a gimbal.


No one has ever said that is the only reason it is not included. Just pointing out there is also an upside to its exclusion, and it is not all negative. 

And clearly Panasonic is targeting niches of niches, as that is the way to make headway against the duopoly's strangehold. Thus it kinda makes sense for them to consider offering a non-IBIS model if it gets requested. (obviously not ALL THEIR CAMERAS without this, but at least have *one* model without it. Which is what they have done. I bet we will have to wait a long long time before they offer this niche of a niche camera again that is without IBIS)

 

5 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

The most ingenious here is the fact practice redefines theory... ; ) I've learned with what I've seen :-)

The only way a person wants a cheaper product purchases instead of a more expensive one, is if strangely the margins on the cheaper product are bigger than the more expensive one (which is not common, but does happen). 

Well if this is true, that only proves my suggestion that Panasonic had no spare fat in the budget to cram more features into the GH5S while still meeting their target price point. 

 

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the extra $500 is the "you know you fuckin want it" tax.

Just saw the asking price. m4/3 isn't what it used to be.

Not saying DPAF specifically, but a hybrid system with PADF like what Fuji, Sony, Olympus, and Nikon1 use - you know the rest of the camera industry. I've seen people say similar things to "the

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3 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

The only way a person wants a cheaper product purchases instead of a more expensive one, is if strangely the margins on the cheaper product are bigger than the more expensive one (which is not common, but does happen). 


Well if this is true, that only proves my suggestion that Panasonic had no spare fat in the budget to cram more features into the GH5S while still meeting their target price point. 

 

They could be listed for same 2000 bucks, I believe. The Panasonic man said in his interview they had developed both camera models at same time. A business decision made they postpone the launch.

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2 hours ago, Chrad said:

It probably is part of the point, but I think Panasonic care about their reputation as far as batteries are concerned. GH3 and GH4 could go all day on a single battery, and I like to think they were proud enough of the positive feedback they got for that feature that they'd have been hesitant about cutting it to the level of the GH5. If they cut the battery life further on this model, they'd sacrifice one of their perceived advantages, at a time when other camera companies are nipping at their heels. They did the same with IBIS, but I guess someone at Panasonic perceives 'reliability' as more important to the brand perception than 'stabilised'.

It only takes ONE product flop (such as shipping a camera with a 20 minute battery life, if you switch on all the features) to harm the entire product line's image. 

You'd get countless mindless idiots telling other idiots "don't buy Panasonic because they have poor battery life", when the exact opposite is true! (for all but one)

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If that were the case, what about Sony?

@IronFilm When I've finished typing all the features like 6K anamorphic, anamorphic de-squeeze, ETC mode, 4:2:2 10-bit ALL-I, IBIS, fully articulating LCD screen, HLG and the rest found on the GH5 that aren't found on every entry-level cinema camera, I'll make a PDF and PM you. :) 

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1 minute ago, Emanuel said:

They could be listed for same 2000 bucks, I believe. The Panasonic man said in his interview they had developed both camera models at same time. A business decision made they postpone the launch.


IF that is true, then obviously the GH5S has a massively bigger profit margin than the GH5. 

Which would prove a point opposite to what you are saying before. (that Panasonic removed IBIS as was worrying GH5S might cut into GH5 sales too much)

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Just now, jonpais said:

If that were the case, what about Sony?

Different companies have different priorities for their reputations. (and companies can also misjudge the impact of compromising in one area over another)

Sony is gunning for "small" and "full frame" (which leads to overheating and poor battery life, that is their trade off)

Panasonic is gunning for "reliable" and "long battery life".


Small/FF certainly is popular with hobbyists!

Reliable/battery is popular with professionals!

#potstirring 

3 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@IronFilm When I've finished typing all the features like 6K anamorphic, anamorphic de-squeeze, ETC mode, IBIS, fully articulating LCD screen, HLG and the rest found on the GH5 that aren't found on every entry-level cinema camera, I'll make a PDF and PM you. :) 

hahahaha! Ok, I'll give you a point or two there.  ;)

6K anamorphic, very true! Is hard to count the cameras on your fingers that can do this for sub $10K and need more than one hand. 

ETC mode? Been around since GH2
IBIS? Common as chips. 
Articulated screen????? Ditto!!! Even more so.

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5 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Different companies have different priorities for their reputations. (and companies can also misjudge the impact of compromising in one area over another)

Sony is gunning for "small" and "full frame" (which leads to overheating and poor battery life, that is their trade off)

Panasonic is gunning for "reliable" and "long battery life".


Small/FF certainly is popular with hobbyists!

Reliable/battery is popular with professionals!

#potstirring 

hahahaha! Ok, I'll give you a point or two there.  ;)

6K anamorphic, very true! Is hard to count the cameras on your fingers that can do this for sub $10K and need more than one hand. 

ETC mode? Been around since GH2
IBIS? Common as chips. 
Articulated screen????? Ditto!!! Even more so.

Just comparing to entry level cinema cameras, not mirrorless. hehe

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2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

GH5 drains a lot more battery than the GH4. It is not even close, it is reaching Sony territory really (people are carrying similar amount of batteries in jobs I've noticed).

So, we already are talking about the GH6?! I have to accept that human race is so greedy. After 3 (+ EVA = 4) new cameras in less than 9 months, that cover -almost- all bases, people will be still waiting for the GH6 that may, or may not, ever come. Whatever..

 Very greedy! As Panasonic truly has been on a roll lately with a string of great cameras for us: G85/GH5/G9/EVA1/GH5S/etc

 

 

 

@jonpais , I said: 

45 minutes ago, IronFilm said:


It is astonishing how many cameras lack TC!  C100/C200/FS5/FS7(if without XDCA)/FS700/FS100/EX1/etc etc etc

Seems five figures for a camera is the point at which then TC becomes "normal". Sub $10K RRP then TC is quite rare :-/ 

With a few exceptions, such as: Panasonic EVA1 and Panasonic GH5S!! Thank you very much Panasonic. 

Maybe, just maaaaaaaaaaaaybe, Panasonic saw the writing on the wall with the Tentacle Syncs and Zoom F8/F4 (Tentacles + F8 is a GAME CHANGER!! For bringing quality features + TC to a very low low price point, in very small packages too!) and thus Panasonic decided to implement timecode more widely with their products?

 

10 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Just comparing to entry level cinema cameras, not mirrorless. hehe


Thus when I was commenting on how unusual it is for GH5 to offer TC in a couple of their cheap cameras, I was quite clearly referring to cameras in general and not limiting it to mirrorless (or DSLRs).

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14 minutes ago, IronFilm said:


IF that is true, then obviously the GH5S has a massively bigger profit margin than the GH5. 

Which would prove a point opposite to what you are saying before. (that Panasonic removed IBIS as was worrying GH5S might cut into GH5 sales too much)

David, before you infer whatever comes to mind, let's pay attention on his words, not mine (E :-)

 

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11 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Very greedy!

 

Nothing about greed (I know the word was not introduced by you : ) but business. Let's differentiate : )) That's the reason why GH6/GH6S will come, not if will ever come. That's pointless :-)

4 minutes ago, IronFilm said:


The video is long, and it is late, I should be in bed, what exactly are you referring to? (or at least give the exact date stamp)

David, if you pay more attention to that I'm writing you'd find out I exactly posted what you're asking for :-)

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2 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Nothing about greed but business. Let's differentiate : ) That's the reason why GH6/GH6S will come, not if will ever come. That's pointless :-)

"Greedy" there was jokingly referring to us the consumers, who are complaining even though Panasonic has been showering us with wonderful cameras!

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1 minute ago, IronFilm said:

"Greedy" there was jokingly referring to us the consumers, who are complaining even though Panasonic has been showering us with wonderful cameras!

I know. See my edit above. Your keyboard is quicker than mine : ) If I didn't write yet I will now: that's nothing about complaining. It's strictly business POV. Technical side is also secondary as I've been trying to point out. It happens. No need to be so defensive as fan user of their products I also am. A bit different of fanboism :-D

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5a5796aeb4d10_ScreenShot2018-01-11at10_53_46AM.thumb.png.aafdc647d7dbdef6e2be6bbda135229f.png

I'm going to go ahead and say it's less the sensor than the processor that's making people think this is a FF killer. Without benefit of noise reduction it's very clear the FF advantage over M43 that @mercer and I were pointing out.  Not saying this isn't impressive, just think it's very unwise to purchase this camera on its low-light ability alone.

Having said that, it's very clearly a step up from the non-S:

5a57993adbb1a_ScreenShot2018-01-11at11_04_28AM.thumb.png.3148ef3a967f250d9084729dd4572ec7.png

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Played with DPreview's studio scene comparison tool, too - and to me, the image quality of the GH5 and GH5s isn't very different, only that the GH5s has one stop more sensitivity, with ISO 6400 on the GH5s looking like ISO 3200 on the GH5. Dynamic range is about the same in both cameras.

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