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Inazuma

NX1 / NX500

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I'm kinda thinking about getting one or both of these cameras (largely because of the 16-50mm f2-2.8 lens, affordability and ergonomics). I'm just wondering a few things..

  1. Is the exposure drifting problem present in all or only some of the units? 
  2. Can it be fixed?
  3. Is the autofocus performance the same between the NX1 and NX500?
  4. What would you say is the highest ISO you can film at?
  5. Is the NX1 4k readout speed improved with the hack?
  6. Does the NX500 have Gamma DR?
  7. Any other quirks I should know about?
  8. How are the preamps on the NX1?
  9. Any ideas why the 2.5k hack can't be ported to the NX1?
  10. Is the EVF comparable to cameras like the A7Sii and X-T2?

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

1. I have never experienced exposure drift on my NX1.

2. There was a topic about it but I did not follow it re answer to number 1 above.

3. Cannot comment, no significant experience with NX500. but I the auto focus on the NX1 is fantastic.

4. Generally 400 is the highest I would recomend. you can use 800 and no one but IQ snobs like myself and the rest of this forum will say anything. You could use 1600 or even 3200 if you really absolutely need to document big foot or something but the IQ really falls off a cliff above 400.

5. No. Read out speed is still the same, no noticeable RS improvement with hack

6. I am not 100% sure but I do not believe so.

7. The UVF lock when in standby mode/recording is probably the biggest quirk that irritates me all the time but not that big of a deal really. Honestly one of the features that does not get any hype but is kind of a stand out is the screen. It is incredible. you dont really notice how good the screen on the NX1 is until to try and use another camera in the sun.

8. Decent, I use a rode video micro all the time without any external pre-amps and it works great.

9. No idea but do not see why you would want it. The benefit from what I understand is the 2.5k hack on the NX500 is good because it give a full sensor readout so no crop. There is not crop on the NX1 in 4K.

10. Sorry I have never used either of those cameras but it is definitely better than the GH4, a7Si, and the XT1.

 

Sorry I couldn't fully answer all your questions but I hope that helps.

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I'll give you my take:

The NX1 is very useable at 1600, in my opinion, that's really the highest I ever have to go with fast glass and a speedbooster. I'll use 3200 in a pinch, but that's honestly more light than I need 95% of the time. There is no gamma DR on the NX500. Most of us NX junkies here on the forum have stopped using Gamma DR anyway, and run with a tweaked standard profile, but the NX500 also lacks a master black level control, so it is quite difficult to get a flat image to match the  NX1. 

Quirks that drive me crazy: You can't adjust the focus punch-in; it's always right to the middle of the image, which is really annoying. Can't do it while recording either. Also, the EVF can't be toggled during recording, you either choose to use it or you don't, the only mirrorless cam I have played with that does this. No mic input on the NX500 also. 

Preamps on the NX1 are great, head and shoulders better than Canon. Autofocus seems about the same between the two cams. It's no dual-pixel, but very reliable during talking heads, interviews, that kind of thing, and I use it on a gimbal without a problem. I actually like the EVF much better on the NX1 than the Sony cameras, and the screen is way, way better as well. Sony screens and EVFs seem very mushy and soft to me, and peaking is basically useless. The NX1 is far superior in that regard. I've never used a Fuji camera, so I can't comment there. 

As Mountneer said above, the hack doesn't change rolling shutter at all. My favorite features are the bitrate hack of course, and allowing silent shutter on the NX500, which makes it rule as small, portable timelapse camera. The ergonomics of both cameras, but especially the NX1, are just fantastic. Clear, easy to use menu system, comfortable in the hand-- I just can't give them up. I've been playing around with a GH5 at work quite a bit lately, and it's a cool camera, but... I still like my NX1 more! Good luck!

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Excellent cameras, for cheap, completely different form factors. Obviously the NX1 is pro orientated, the NX500 not that much.

1. & 2.  I do not know about it, maybe it is something that appears in specific circumstances that I do not do anyway.

3. Seems like it is. It is not Canon, but I am using NX1 on Ronin and never disappointed the customers. I do not use AF on any other circumstance, even with a Canon camera.

4. 1600ISO, after that the NR kicks really hard, 2000ISO sometimes, I have the impression that the NR kicks in just after the 2000 ISO, but I try to keep it in 1600 just to be sure.

Certainly a camera that needs some kind of light to shine, no A7sII killer here, even AF is so much better with some kind of light (that is obvious and a general rule in photography, but in very low light AF drop dramatically, unlike a Nikon, let's say).

5. The mod increases the bitrate, which is impressive on its own.

4K rolling shutter not that impressive, but near or better than the competition. 1080p is absolutely fantastic though. Check the data.

a7s II FF 1080p --- 30.3 ms (29.5-31.2)
a7s II FF 4K ------ 30.4 ms (30.2-30.6)
a7s FF 1080p ------ 30.5 ms (30.1-32.0-30.5-30.3-29.2-30.9)
XT2 4k ------------ 30.7 ms (30.5-30.7-31.2-31.2-30.8-29.9)
NX1 4K ------------ 30.9 ms (30.6-31.6-31.4-30.7-30.2)
NX1 UHD ----------- 32.6 ms (32.9-32.0-32.9-32.5)
a7R II 4K S35 ----- 33.3 ms (35.6-32.2-32.8-35.3-32.6-31.1)
RX100 IV 4K ------- 36.6 ms (36.4-36.7) (without stabilization it's slightly faster: 35.7)
a6300 4K 24fps ---- 39.0 ms (39.2-38.9)

and the only ones, user tested under 10ms

1DX II 1080p 60&120- 6.7 ms (6.6-6.7)
NX1 1080p ---------- 7.9 ms (7.7-8.0-8.1-7.8)
NX500 2.5k --------- 8.6 ms (8.2-8.8-8.9)

6. Not at all! I use standard profiles for both the cameras anyway.

7. The absolute worst of these cameras is the fact that you can't zoom in to check focus while recording. This is the most annoying thing ever. I hate it! No other issue for me.

8. Relatively great. Miles ahead of Canon's, not as good as a professional sound recordist. Had some issues with headphones jack (listen some echo), but that may be me, trying to adapt to external microphones and.. it's a long story. Easily adjust levels as well.

9. The 2.5K mode was in the original firmware of the NX500 but left out at the last moment (and not in a perfect form, as it seems).

10. I don't use EVFs, and I haven't use a Fuji, but I preferred it from any other I have tested. Not a very formal opinion though.

Also, the OLED touch screens of Samsung are just brilliant.

There are a lot of other great stuff.

28megapixels BSI sensor - great photo camera, a true 50-50% hybrid. 15fps. H265 is such an advantage (for me) and future proof. Excellent battery life on the NX1, no overheating, ever. Continuous 73minutes recording. Great ergonomics for both cameras (one to each own). Best menu system and touch screen implementation. The unicorn 16-50S 2-2.8f lens, and just the right lenses - if they are the right for you!

Fish eye is just excellent. 30mm 2f, great super sharp pancake. 45 1.8f great short portrait. 60mm macro. 85 1.4f, amazing classic portrait lens. The 2 S lenses, and a few more cheap zooms and primes to feel the holes.
 

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8 hours ago, Inazuma said:

I'm kinda thinking about getting one or both of these cameras (largely because of the 16-50mm f2-2.8 lens, affordability and ergonomics). I'm just wondering a few things..

  1. Is the exposure drifting problem present in all or only some of the units? 
  2. Can it be fixed?
  3. Is the autofocus performance the same between the NX1 and NX500?
  4. What would you say is the highest ISO you can film at?
  5. Is the NX1 4k readout speed improved with the hack?
  6. Does the NX500 have Gamma DR?
  7. Any other quirks I should know about?
  8. How are the preamps on the NX1?
  9. Any ideas why the 2.5k hack can't be ported to the NX1?
  10. Is the EVF comparable to cameras like the A7Sii and X-T2?

Let me try and answer as much as possible here, since I have both the a7sII and NX1.

1. I dont think that problem is still alive, neither was alive when I bought the camera.

3. Autofocus is pretty good, unless its lowlight, it hunts quite a bit.

4. Depends on the framerate, 4k - 1600 / 1080p 60 - 800 / 1080p120 - 400.

5. No, however, the rolling shutter can easily be avoided, specially with the 16-50S lens.

6. Yes, it has Gamma DR, however, if you search on other threads, there are custom profiles that work really well.

8. I would say they are average.

9. No idea

10. The EVF and Screen is the best screen in any camera, the a7sII is terrible when compared to the NX1 both in the EVF and Screen.

 

Overall thoughts, The NX1 is still my favorite camera, the image is very very pleasing, and after you learn how to work with its image, is a very veyr strong camera, specially if you get it at a good price.

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4 minutes ago, MountneerMan said:

How does the 16-50S lens help with rolling shutter?

Rolling shutter is very noticeable when you're using a non IS lens, like any camera, the little jitters will make everything look like jelly. Once you're using a stabilized lens (and may I say, its a very good lens stabilization), most of those issues dissapear.

I only shoot handheld, I dont even own a tripod, and never did, most of my struggle was to avoid rolling shutter on any of these new 4k cameras, but once you attach a stabilized lens (or in Sonys case, sensor) those problems become way less prominent.

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31 minutes ago, Inazuma said:

Thanks guys :) Two more

  • Why has Gamma DR fallen out of favor?
  • How usable is the DIS? Can it end up warping the image too easily? Does the image quality drop much?

 

I cant remember why I stopped using it, but I remember commenting something about it around here on the NX1 thread. 

I wouldnt recommend the DIS, it might be usefull for some occasions, but more often than not it would ruin the image.

 

Heres some NX1 footage if you're interested, almost everything in my channel is from the NX1.

 

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2 hours ago, Inazuma said:

Thanks guys :) Two more

  • Why has Gamma DR fallen out of favor?
  • How usable is the DIS? Can it end up warping the image too easily? Does the image quality drop much?

 

The really flat gamma settings can be harder to bring back contrast and beautiful color in post and don't really seem to increase dynamic range much over the tweaked standard profiles anyway, I don't know, most of us are probably using the above poster Ricardo's settings, because he clearly knows how to make that camera sing! 

I'd be very careful with DIS. The edges warp super easy and can ruin the footage. The only time I really use it is occasionally combined with the IS of the 16-50 S lens for some discreet handheld work, like if I'm filming in a store, somewhere without a permit, etc. Using it like that, it's rock-steady, just don't try panning like crazy with it, running around, etc. 

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7 hours ago, Inazuma said:

Thanks guys :) Two more

  • Why has Gamma DR fallen out of favor?
  • How usable is the DIS? Can it end up warping the image too easily? Does the image quality drop much?

 

Regrading gamma DR (with .95 green channel and +5 mbl), I find myself using it again as of late. Something about it just works for my workflow. But I really enjoy Ricardo's settings as well. Been trying gamma DR with impulz luts for a more normal color look and then I use Ricardo's natural settings and vellichor luts for a stylized look.

Yeah, dis degrades image quality. At least if you're pixel peeping. Better off using warp stabilizer in premiere.

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On 4/19/2017 at 7:48 AM, Inazuma said:

I'm kinda thinking about getting one or both of these cameras (largely because of the 16-50mm f2-2.8 lens, affordability and ergonomics). I'm just wondering a few things..

  1. Is the exposure drifting problem present in all or only some of the units? 
  2. Can it be fixed?
  3. Is the autofocus performance the same between the NX1 and NX500?
  4. What would you say is the highest ISO you can film at?
  5. Is the NX1 4k readout speed improved with the hack?
  6. Does the NX500 have Gamma DR?
  7. Any other quirks I should know about?
  8. How are the preamps on the NX1?
  9. Any ideas why the 2.5k hack can't be ported to the NX1?
  10. Is the EVF comparable to cameras like the A7Sii and X-T2?

1) I've only noticed the exposure drifting when you change the focal length / zoom in or out. So if you want a shot where you include zooms, I'd recommend using a third-party lens, then there will be no exposure drifting.

3) Yes. But AF is only good on the "S" series lenses. 

4) 800 and below is clean. 1600 is useable. 3200 in desperate situations.

5) No. But don't use Gamma DR. You lose all the colors. And the NX1 has pretty good color science (way better than Sony). I use the FilmConvert recommended settings (Normal Profile, contrast -4, sat -2). See attached photos.

7) The biggest issue (that no one really talks about) is white balance. I would not recommend customizing your white balance using Kelvin. The colors drift, and you get really funky frames that jump magenta or green, then back again. It's a huge glitch, we own 4 NX1's and all of them do it. The nice thing is, you can customize any preset white balance. So we typically shoot with the "Daylight" or "Tungsten" preset and adjust the RGB to compensate for any weird lighting situations. It's proven to work pretty well. But it's annoying that you can't dial in a specific Kelvin.

8) Good enough for most productions. We plug the Sennheiser AVX directly into it for many situations, and it sounds great. No clients have ever complained. For clients needing higher quality / we're shooting Arri or RED with a Sound Devices recorder. For DSLR clients, the internal audio is perfect.

9) I don't think the camera needs hacking. Just stick with the out-of-the-box firmware, in my opinion.

10) It's a good EVF. Very useable. Very little delay.

 

 

Frame Grab.jpg

Screen Shot 2017-04-20 at 1.57.58 PM.png

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20 hours ago, ricardo_sousa11 said:

I cant remember why I stopped using it, but I remember commenting something about it around here on the NX1 thread. 

I wouldnt recommend the DIS, it might be usefull for some occasions, but more often than not it would ruin the image.

 

Heres some NX1 footage if you're interested, almost everything in my channel is from the NX1.

 

That is stunning.

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My god.. so I just found out that the only fast semi-wide/standard prime Samsung has (the 30mm) is loud and slow at AF.  

Canon/Nikon/pentax = great bodies and lens selection, crap video

Panasonic/olympus = great bodies, large lens selection, no phase detection, questionable colour and small sensor

Sony = feature rich but quirky and has expensive lenses

Samsung = great body, poor lens selection

Fuji = great lens selection, great SOOC images, jumpy AF, lack of stabilsation in body or lenses

Fuck meee. 

Maybe ill get the NX1 for my fast 16-50 needs and also get a GX80 for my fast semi wide prime needs :confused:

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@Inazuma the D7500 is the only hybrid I'm even remotely interested in after going with the 5D3 with ML Raw. I was clearing space on all of my hard drives for the raw file storage, and peeping at my time with other cameras this past year plus and the D5500 was the only image I found remotely cinematic enough compared to the ML Raw... well the BM stuff looked decent too but I have different issues with them. So why not the D7500... the D500 has stunning 4K and the 7500 should be exactly the same. 

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