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Ed_David

RAW vs Log - Blackmagic, Sony, Canon

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A lot of back and forth - between shooting raw vs log.

I did a bunch of tests.  

And in the end, yea, say what you want how PRO RES 4444 is just as good,  I just find RAW gives me better highlight information overall, especially on the Ursa Mini, and  it is nice to worry about color temp after shooting on a doc, not during it, as you move quickly between locations, and light changes quickly.

sharpness, all that, you can control more in post and yes, in raw,

seems to have more noise in the image and log smoothes it out

but, at this point, some noise is good - most digital images are too clinical, too sharp, too everything

any flaws are welcome to the image

so yea,

that's my take on it all.

So sorry Stu and Prolost cats - raw seems good for me.

As well as 100% of the DP-nominated films from the oscars - all shot on Arriraw - I think - or most of them.

whether its for VFX or resolution or god knows what - it just seems like all the cool kids are doing it.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
3 hours ago, Ed_David said:

whether its for VFX or resolution or god knows what - it just seems like all the cool kids are doing it.

 

yeah, cool kids shooting movies with arris these days. us boring farts need to swing around these amateurish dslrs.

I loved your non raw stuff already and you are in the cool kids club anyway no matter if raw or not! :)

 

 

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Since ML raw happened I haven't looked back. Raw's a dream to work with in post.

Yeah Ed, not having to think about white balance is a big deal.

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40 minutes ago, squig said:

Since ML raw happened I haven't looked back. Raw's a dream to work with in post.

Yeah Ed, not having to think about white balance is a big deal.

Squig, have you encountered any major issues using the 5d Mark III and ML Raw on your feature?

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32 minutes ago, mercer said:

Squig, have you encountered any major issues using the 5d Mark III and ML Raw on your feature?

The feature's still in pre-production, but I've done a lot of testing and no, I haven't had a single bad frame or any crashes.

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That's good to know. I was all set to preorder the GH5 and then I saw this video from the Mark III...

I hadn't seen one video from the GH5 that looked near as good. I shot some ML Raw last fall on the 50D and loved it, but it did have a few issues... no sound being one of them... but that ML Raw image is undeniable.

9 minutes ago, squig said:

The feature's still in pre-production, but I've done a lot of testing and no, I haven't had a single bad frame or any crashes.

 

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1 minute ago, mercer said:

That's good to know. I was all set to preorder the GH5 and then I saw this video from the Mark III...

I hadn't seen one video from the GH5 that looked near as good. I shot some ML Raw last fall on the 50D and loved it, but it did have a few issues... no sound being one of them... but that ML Raw image is undeniable.

 

The 5D MK3 is way better than the 50D. I'll probably get an 80D too for the DPAF when ML crack it. GH5, meh.

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42 minutes ago, squig said:

The 5D MK3 is way better than the 50D. I'll probably get an 80D too for the DPAF when ML crack it. GH5, meh.

Does it look like they will be able to crack the 80D? I didn't know they were working on it. 

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18 minutes ago, mercer said:

Does it look like they will be able to crack the 80D? I didn't know they were working on it. 

Yeah, a1ex said he's putting a few hours a week into digic 6 ML development.

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1 hour ago, squig said:

 

45 minutes ago, squig said:

Yeah, a1ex said he's putting a few hours a week into digic 6 ML development.

I've seen some pretty cool 70D ML Raw videos.... even in 720p. Since the 80D has a faster buffer, it could be an epic little cam with its DPAF and ML Raw.

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Squig, when using ACR to work the DNGs, is there now a known fix for the exposure fluctuations when a clip has big changes in luminosity? Some people have mentioned using "Process 2010" instead of "2012 (current)" - does that have any effect?

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1 hour ago, TrueIndigo said:

Squig, when using ACR to work the DNGs, is there now a known fix for the exposure fluctuations when a clip has big changes in luminosity? Some people have mentioned using "Process 2010" instead of "2012 (current)" - does that have any effect?

Most of the sliders in ACR are image adaptive and should be left at the default for developing video frames, particularly Whites, Blacks, Shadows, Highlights.

Exposure and curves are OK to manipulate though.

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"Exposure and curves are OK" -- that's great to hear, thanks. So, can we say the OK sliders are: Temperature, Tint and Exposure, and leave the rest alone? And keep on using "2012" because "2010" makes no difference? I've used Saturation and Contrast a few times but not on clips that would show much change anyway, so don't know if that's all right, too.

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Since you don't have to worry about WB with Raw and Canon has pretty good AWB, is that what you guys use with it? Or do you use 4400 as a happy medium? Or try to nail it anyway?

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Yes, Exposure, Temp and Tint are fine to use. Maybe check out Cinelog C for ACR. This will give extract the most info from the DNGs in a log format. Very good highlight retention.

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On 2017-03-27 at 11:25 AM, Ed_David said:

 I just find RAW gives me better highlight information overall, especially on the Ursa Mini, and  it is nice to worry about color temp after shooting on a doc, not during it, as you move quickly between locations, and light changes quickly.

This exactly. Shooting RAW actually makes sense for doc approach. Throw in 3:1 compressed raw (for BM or later with slimraw) and you can manage your data pretty easily too. I've been having a bit of fun shooting a few BTS EPK projects lately and it's quite freeing not having to worry about white balance as I'm going from crazy warm lighting in the scene to the director brooding in a dim spot beside a window. I'd rather have those few crucial seconds to concentrate on getting the moment right and figuring out a way to prompt some words or action.

Hitting that highlight recovery in resolve is instant magic to start. I also think how you are monitoring while you shoot and what mode you are exposing for affects the outcome a lot too. I wouldn't protect the highlights enough if I were to monitor and expose in log. After, when I want to grade in log for the bolex I just run the corresponding input LUT (rec709 to bolex log from Eddie Barton) in Resolve and voila.

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8 hours ago, mercer said:

Since you don't have to worry about WB with Raw and Canon has pretty good AWB, is that what you guys use with it? Or do you use 4400 as a happy medium? Or try to nail it anyway?

I never use AWB. I light with mixed color temps a lot, like a 4000k practical with a 5600k backlight for example, so I dial in WB to suit in camera. I tend to warm things up a bit in post.

11 hours ago, TrueIndigo said:

Squig, when using ACR to work the DNGs, is there now a known fix for the exposure fluctuations when a clip has big changes in luminosity? Some people have mentioned using "Process 2010" instead of "2012 (current)" - does that have any effect?

2010 is no better. I mostly just denoise, sharpen, and adjust WB in ACR, and sometimes make curves adjustments. It's super important to ETTR and nail exposure with the Canons otherwise they get very noisy.

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39 minutes ago, squig said:

I never use AWB. I light with mixed color temps a lot, like a 4000k practical with a 5600k backlight for example, so I dial in WB to suit in camera. I tend to warm things up a bit in post.

2010 is no better. I mostly just denoise, sharpen, and adjust WB in ACR, and sometimes make curves adjustments. It's super important to ETTR and nail exposure with the Canons otherwise they get very noisy.

Good to know, thanks Squig. I should have my Mark iii next week and then am planning on shooting a short 2 weeks later, so I have a steep learning curve I have to learn quick. 

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