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Panasonic GH5 - all is revealed!


Andrew Reid
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3 hours ago, Hanriverprod said:

Some off the cuff comparisons between um4.6 and gh5.

Would like to see skin off different types of interior lights, wide and cu, and also mixed lights.

Unfortunatelly he didnt said which codec he used with UM46K. One of the strongest features of UM46K is compressed 4.6K raw, not prores so i would like to see how the cameras best codecs compares: 4:1 4.6K raw 60fps vs 10 bit vlogL h.264 30fps (and vs 8bit 60fps) - i would like to see shadow/highlight recovery abilities with the best codecs of both cameras (there is really lots of recoverable information in UM46K highlights).

 

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4 hours ago, kgv5 said:

Unfortunatelly he didnt said which codec he used with UM46K. One of the strongest features of UM46K is compressed 4.6K raw, not prores so i would like to see how the cameras best codecs compares: 4:1 4.6K raw 60fps vs 10 bit vlogL h.264 30fps (and vs 8bit 60fps) - i would like to see shadow/highlight recovery abilities with the best codecs of both cameras (there is really lots of recoverable information in UM46K highlights).

 

ok, he now answered, that  it was prores HQ UHD422 on UM46K. 

So we can see, that GH5 is holding up nicely with dynamic range until you unleash RAW in UM46K and play with shadow/highlight sliders in resolve. Than you can gain additional DR steps where GH5 codec is struggling and cannot really keep up. Raw settings in resolve with highlight/shadow, midtones etc. are much better than just using curves on compressed codec, gives much more clarity according to my tests. It is nice to see that 10bit GH5 codec looks the same like UM 10bit prores HQ422. I wonder what about UM 444 12bit proress though...

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6 hours ago, zmarty said:

I can do even better than that, I will post test videos:

Natural: http://files.hdrcolorgrading.com/2017-04-GH5-Tests/natural.MP4

V-Log: http://files.hdrcolorgrading.com/2017-04-GH5-Tests/vlog.MP4

These are UHD 60fps, straight from the camera and untouched. The videos were taken seconds from one another. The only difference between them is the picture profile.

The natural profile has issues as well, but the V-Log problems are quite severe. I hope it's something really simple that I am missing.

I don't know the value of the ISO, I will try more detailed experiments tomorrow.

I also tried outputting to an external monitor, both in 8 bit and 10 bit, at 24, 30 and 60 fps. The ghosting is still very visible.

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If it's any consolation, having been through this issue with the XC10, ghosting is a hell of a lot more noticeable in a still image than a moving image. But once you see it, it's hard to unsee it. I don't have a GH5 yet so I can't corroborate for you. But if you'd like others to test if their units are affected (and my guess is that it's universal) then you need to tell us what ISO you're seeing ghosting at.

To minimise it:

1. Keep ISO low where possible
2. Turn NR to minimum (theoretically this should decrease it)
3. Find the profile that has the least ghosting
4. Keep movement to a minimum
5. Try not to worry too much about it. 99% of the population won't be able to see it.

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2 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

If it's any consolation, having been through this issue with the XC10, ghosting is a hell of a lot more noticeable in a still image than a moving image. But once you see it, it's hard to unsee it. I don't have a GH5 yet so I can't corroborate for you. But if you'd like others to test if their units are affected (and my guess is that it's universal) then you need to tell us what ISO you're seeing ghosting at.

To minimise it:

1. Keep ISO low where possible
2. Turn NR to minimum (theoretically this should decrease it)
3. Find the profile that has the least ghosting
4. Keep movement to a minimum
5. Try not to worry too much about it. 99% of the population won't be able to see it.

I will try that.

Normally I would agree with you that most people would not see it. It is present in all profiles and I can live with that. However, as you can probably see from my test videos above, the ghosting in V-Log is so extreme that none of my test videos have been usable. It is obvious to anybody watching the footage.

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43 minutes ago, zmarty said:

I will check multiple ISO settings and will report back here.

I checked all ISO values in the Natural and V-Log profiles (respectively), and I really don't like what I am seeing:

Natural: Ghosting is present at all ISO values, but it is less apparent at lower values. I would consider all ISO settings usable in this profile and I would not have much trouble delivering footage in this profile. But compared to my Sony A6300 the GH5 is much worse.

V-Log L: I set Noise Reduction and Sharpness to -5 (minimum values). Ghosting is present at all ISO values, but it is much more severe. More specifically, everything below and including ISO 800 is reasonable. ISO 1600 is OK but ghosting is quite visible. Anything at 3200 or above has way too much ghosting and I would not shoot anything at this ISO or higher.

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7 hours ago, zmarty said:

I can do even better than that, I will post test videos:

That is temporal noise reduction. The reason that it's more visible in v-log is apparently because the GH5 applies noise reduction as one of the last steps of the image. V-LOG = less contrasty so you will see more of those double lines (in temporal noise reduction there is a cut-off point but that depends on the contrast, as the noise reduction engine sees the double images easier on more contrasty images).

Not 100% sure but it seems that's what is happening.

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How is the ghosting in Like709? This could be a great alternative to V-Log at high ISO. See page 175 of the manual to dial down the contrast of this profile using the knee settings.

I still can't believe that people aren't all over this profile. If I had my GH5 I'd be balls deep in the menu, massaging Like709's beautiful knee.

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1 minute ago, hyalinejim said:

How is the ghosting in Like709?

I will give it a try shortly. I am just a bit pissed because V-Log L is a paid license. And I need V-Log or something like it for what I do (I shoot HDR videos exclusively).

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24 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

 If I had my GH5 I'd be balls deep in the menu, massaging Like709's beautiful knee.

Maybe I spoke too soon. Paul Leeming finds no difference in DR between CineD and Like709:

Quote

OK, so I've done a test of Cine-D, Like709 with knee adjusted to give maximum dynamic range, and V-Log. All done ETTR to normalise the highlights and let the shadows fall where they may. Thanks for the tip Mike :)

Dynamic range results, best to worst:

1. V-Log by about two stops.
2. Cine-D (just a bit better than Like709, but not by much)
3. Like709

Basically, with the knee control set to Point: 80 and Slope: 99 (showed maximal gains), it looks very similar in curve to Cine-D, only with a touch less dynamic range in the shadows. I mean, a really little bit of difference. I even wonder if Cine-D is just Like709 with those knee settings built in, but it seems a touch more refined. The whole Cine-D curve is slightly lifted compared to Like709, which is where I think the slight gain is coming from. I think in the real world you won't see much difference between the two when set up for maximum dynamic range.

V-Log is really in another class though, showing more highlight retention and even cleaner shadows!!

Based on the above, I will stick with Cine-D as the linear profile going forward.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/pansonicgh5/permalink/1688892324743802/?comment_id=1689255548040813&notif_t=group_comment_follow&notif_id=1490971906901837

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1 hour ago, zmarty said:

I will give it a try shortly. I am just a bit pissed because V-Log L is a paid license. And I need V-Log or something like it for what I do (I shoot HDR videos exclusively).

If it's a shared issue I wonder if they can fix via firmware. It would suck if it was hardware. Does anybody know about this? I guess it needs to be found out if others are affected.

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8 hours ago, zmarty said:

I can do even better than that, I will post test videos:

Natural: http://files.hdrcolorgrading.com/2017-04-GH5-Tests/natural.MP4

V-Log: http://files.hdrcolorgrading.com/2017-04-GH5-Tests/vlog.MP4

These are UHD 60fps, straight from the camera and untouched. The videos were taken seconds from one another. The only difference between them is the picture profile.

The natural profile has issues as well, but the V-Log problems are quite severe. I hope it's something really simple that I am missing.

I don't know the value of the ISO, I will try more detailed experiments tomorrow.

Yeah not good. I thought the Natural looked pretty good, but v-log, ehh, not so good.

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