kye

19 minutes ago, Beritar said:

I confirm, my GH5 has Open gate 3,3K downsampled 60 fps. Even my GH6 and G9II have not Open Gate 60fps.
The GH5 is still the best Panasonic m43 cameras for a lot of things, including detail rendering and Open Gate 60fps.

I tested a bunch of modes and was really impressed that the only times it cropped in were when you explicitly told it to do so (the ETC and 2x and 4x digital zooms) and everything else was downsampled.  That even included things like the FHD 60p mode in 2x digital crop - it was still downsampling from an area half the width of the sensor ( ~2.5K ) down to the FHD output resolution.  It made all the modes I tested really high quality.

I still read about the hodge-podge of gotchas and limitations on current generations of cameras and just shake my head.

33 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

GH7

Full specs here

https://www.panasonic.com/uk/consumer/cameras-camcorders/lumix-mirrorless-cameras/lumix-g-cameras/dc-gh7.html

How odd, I just checked and the GH5 3.3K 4:3 mode and it's the same horizontal FOV as the 16:9 modes, so downsampled not cropped.

2 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

The GH5II has been tested for displaying the best detail rendering of the whole bunch from what I read, high resolving but gentle. @Beritar Thank you for testing the Gh6 and S-line cameras and for sharing. So far GH5II looks even more interesting to me. None of the bunch does open gate 60p, right?

Just fired up my GH5 and it has 3328x2496 at 59.94p, so I'd be surprised if the GH5ii, GH5S, GH6 and GH7 didn't have at least one >30p mode in open gate..

3 hours ago, MrSMW said:

16fps stop motion is not something my clients book me for 😂

It's never too late for a rebrand and a fresh start!!

On 6/20/2024 at 4:06 AM, lsquare said:

I use both MacOS and Windows. Sadly, Resolve doesn't support ProRes RAW. I figured if I'm going to learn any NLE, it'll be Resolve since it's available on MacOS and Windows. Both of these NLEs are relatively cheap since it's a one-time pay and there are constant software upgrades. Did I get this right? What would you guys do?

I think the answer really depends on your individual circumstances.  

People tend to give advice based on their own situation, which is fine, but almost always underestimate how different the situations of others can be from their own.

Some key considerations to frame the discussion should include:

• If you are going to be collaborating with anyone else
  obviously, if you're planning to collaborate then having the same platform makes certain things 100x easier.
   
• What your workflow is like
  Some people shoot, edit the footage with a simple rec709 conversion, then Picture Lock, then sound design / music / VFX / colour grading / etc all get done, then output and distribution.
  Others may do the edit but will go back and fine-tune it as colour grading and VFX and sound design etc are all being integrated.
  Others my do all the stages simultaneously, in workflows where the concept of Picture Lock makes no sense whatsoever.
   
• How well your footage is shot
  Some projects have complete control over lighting etc during filming and need basically zero colour grading in post.  Others need a lot more finesse, which is well beyond the scope of FCPX.
   
• What the turn-around times are for the project
  If you need to turn something around in 3 days, but need to do round-trip the colour, get Picture Lock before the composer can start composing the score, etc etc then good luck, but if you're in Resolve and editing in the cloud (or with Resolve Server) then you can have the whole team working on the project literally at the same time 
   
• What codecs you're using
   
• What tools you need for VFX / colour grading / audio
   
• What tools you're used to using and how much time (if any) you can devote to switching

I feel like there is an increasing divide between the formal "industry" way of doing things, where (in theory) everyone does their bit in a sequence and (in theory) the process doesn't go back to an earlier stage, and everything can be done in separate pieces of software..  and the way that small teams or solo operators might sculpt an edit, with everything done within the same package and where everything is able to be finessed right up to hitting Export.

3 hours ago, Davide DB said:

However, we are truly insatiable. The GH7 is not yet available and we are already thinking about the GH8 and the 8K!

You're still thinking about the GH8...?

I'm wondering if the GH9 will have 12k120 in 10-bit 4:2:2.  I have given up on it being internal raw in that mode, but my cat videos won't be cinematic if it's only 4:2:0 and doesn't have at least 17 stops of DR.

As an astute poster recently commented, if ARRI can do 17 stops with the Alexa 35 then why not Panny?

I don't think I'm asking for too much when I expect the cameras specs to compensate for my complete lack of skill.

Another comparison

I pulled the video into Resolve and did a little grading on the GH7 LogC image to match the Alexa, and it wasn't too hard to get this:

Obviously colour grading a Log image that has been through YT is an abysmal image pipeline, so take that into account.  

It would be interesting to play with the files and see how they feel.  I suspect the vast majority of people would be looking to get the LogC upgrade in order to get a nicer image, rather than match an Alexa, so shooting Vlog and LogC and then trying to work with the images would be interesting.

11 hours ago, zlfan said:

it is interesting to see how good om1/om1 mkii dci 4k is. i am attracted to the ibis mostly. just kind of uncertain of their video quality. 

like any other camera:

if you're an artist then it's fine.

if you're a technician then not fine because it doesn't have 750MP and 22 stops of DR.

Sharpness and resolution are misleading measures if you care about aesthetics.

The things to pay attention to are the MTF curve of the final images.  Both film and classic lenses all had a natural fall-off where finer details were present but became lower contrast - a low pass filter essentially.

Digital has no low pass filter (except nearing nyquist), and with most processing, it actually exhibits a high-pass pattern, where the contrast of fine detail is higher than that of larger details.

1 hour ago, John Matthews said:

Nice shots. Colors look nice too. The whole time I was watching scared that she'd fall. I genuinely surprised she never wore a helmet. She wiped out pretty good a couple of times (of the times that made it into the final edit).

Skateboarders don't care about helmets, or safety of any kind whatsoever.

See the below video, which they spiced up with slow-motion........ and explosives.

OG BMPCC and 45-150mm f4-5.6 zoom...

The cinema flows from the people through the equipment into the edit.

No excuses.

8 hours ago, IronFilm said:

At least it is more on topic than a dreadful Sennheiser 416

....and far more friendly than the HK416.

50 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Blimps existed for MOS cameras to make them kinda suitable for sync sound in a pinch. 

Or the other option is rent one of the more expensive cameras that are designed from the ground up to be used on sync sound shoots. 

On that topic, if anybody wants to buy one, ARRI has the very best available for sale right now:

https://www.newsshooter.com/2024/06/16/arriflex-416-plus-hs-auction/ 

Now this is marketing...  clicked on an S9 thread?  Here's a product you might also be interested in... the ARRI 416!

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

The tools we have at our disposal are quite frankly ridiculously good.

The weakest link in the entire chain is the human one. By far.

I am growing more and more fond of the saying I invented recently, which is that the art/cinema flows from the people through the equipment to the final film.  

It is simple, but seems to capture the heart of the matter.....   and explains a great deal about the quality of work that we see from various people online.

1 hour ago, Beritar said:

before pressing the recording button the image is prefectly in focus, but as soon as you press the button, the camera tries to re-focus and literraly lost the point of focus

Maybe you would benefit from using back-button focus?  I use it on the GX85 and it works brilliantly because you have full control over when the AF is enabled.

I must admit, this thread really makes me laugh.

No wonder there are no creative or aesthetic discussions here - not only do people not want to talk about it but they refuse to believe these things even exist, and if they don't believe in it then they will shout down anyone that even mentions it.

I've been spending my time more and more elsewhere and I can tell you, there are places where people discuss aesthetics, creativity, productivity, and try and help each other out and encourage each other.

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Some times, some things, have a certain kind of magic.

You can’t always quite determine or define why, but it exists.

It’s usually a sum of it’s parts that combines to more than something else/less.

If you can see it and feel it, even if those around you do not, it exists.

Anyway, GH7 colour science…

It does look quite different to the GH6.

If…IF, I was to move back to M4/3 for video, I was thinking to help keep the costs down, to pair a GH6 (because they are fairly ‘affordable’ used now) with a GH7 but nah, could not be bothered dealing with that difference.

Though possibly could tweak the hue & sat in camera to make them match and then, SOOC, they would be as close as you would not notice.

I wonder if you got the LogC profile for each, if maybe those would match between GH6 and GH7.  Paying for the profiles might be worthwhile if it matched them SOOC.

6 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

There is no magical "medium format look" that is common to all medium format camera/lens combinations (or even a decent subset of them).

Please look through this thread and show me where this was stated.

7 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Come on, now.  I'm not claiming to know everything, but it's also clear that after 20+ years of shooting medium and large format cameras, I have more experience in the format than people who have never touched one and yet are talking about the "look."  I don't have to know everything to know anything at all which is a lot more than the majority of people chiming in on this topic know.

Have you shot thousands of images over the last 20 years with medium and large format cameras?  How many of them have you ever used?  Or even touched?  Without looking it up, could you even tell me what the Scheimpflug's principle is?  What about reciprocity failure?

Somebody doesn't have to be omniscient to know more about a topic than somebody else.

In life I've continually found that when people around me generally agree on something that I can't see when I look, I have found that there was something there and I just hadn't learned to see it yet.

It's about being smart enough to know that you don't know everything.

By claiming that something doesn't exist, you are claiming to know everything - otherwise how can you know it doesn't exist?  It might just be in the part of the sum total of human knowledge and experience that you haven't experienced yet.  The only way you can know something isn't in there is if you have all of it.

You're not claiming you know more than us about it, you're claiming to know everything about it.  The logic is very simple.

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

No, I'm sorry.  That's bullshit.  If a term has no clear definition, then the term is just plain useless.  Otherwise we're just shouting at each other that the images aren't "old-timey" enough.  Also, even in your example of two different grades, if the 100 people you show things to are not video nerds, I think a lot fewer of them are going to rate the second "film look" than you think.  They might say the second one looks older, especially because of gate weave.

Ad of course it's that I'm not seeing "the medium format look."  You can't see what doesn't fucking exist.  I was pretty sure it did exist when I started shooting medium and large format over 20 years ago.  Over years and using many different combinations of lens and film, I've realized how there's no look intrinsic to any format.  Lenses definitely have different looks, but if I have medium and large format film cameras that wouldn't fit the descriptions people give for "the medium format look" or "the large format look," those descriptions are wrong and/or imaginary.

It must be amazing to know everything and have nothing else to learn.

I can't imagine what that must be like.

To see everything.  To know everything.  Wow.

We truly are lucky to have you here to correct all of us in our silly and naive delusions.

Please...  tell us what else we all collectively believe that is also wrong...  enlighten us...  your omnipotence!

30 minutes ago, zlfan said:

handhold 100 mm on m43 is actually pretty good. I have several 50 mm standard primes. if they are stable enough for video use, it will great. em5 og is tripod like at 25mm, monopod like at 50mm, 100 mm is not stable enough for video work. 

100mm on MFT is definitely a pretty long telephoto for sure, but remember that in my case I had IBIS in the camera and the OIS in the lens both helping with the stabilisation.  Depending on what camera and what lens you have, they might not work together like this, so you'll get less effective stabilisation.

I find stabilisation to really be a bit of a gamble - you can get good comparisons from people and they're likely to be good information but until you actually test a setup yourself you're not going to know in what situations you can get a stable image.

I've found that there are lots of things that can impact your ability to get a stable shot, for example all the following will have an impact:

• if you're tired
• if the ground is level and solid or not
• what sort of shoes you are wearing and if they're comfortable
• what pose you're in
• if it's windy
• your caffeine levels
• how tired you are
• if there are bright lights shining in your eyes
• (obviously) if you're moving or walking, but even then there are all sorts of techniques involved and how much practice you've had at them, etc

Perhaps the best advice once you've bought your equipment is to practice as much as you can, know what you can and can't do, and have a backup plan in place for when it gets difficult.

15 hours ago, lsquare said:

Right now I'm sitting about 5 feet away from a 65" 4K TV. I'll probably be using this TV until the end of the decade. The Samsung QN90B is a very good TV and 4K UHD discs look spectacular. Towards the end of this decade, if 8K is cheap enough, why not? Anyway, I'm not really interested in debating whether 8K is necessary or not. Even if the difference between full HD and 4K is minimal, I'm not going to shoot in full HD. 

I guess what I want to ask now is will 5.7K/6K videos look sharp from about 5 feet away with a future 85" 8K TV? Will it look softer from the same distance with a natively shot 8K video?

Thank you. 

If you want your images to be sharp, in your editing program there is a control called Sharpness.  This is used to increase the sharpness of the image.  To get sharper images you would increase this control until the images are as sharp as you like.

If you're shooting 1080p or above, sharpness has nothing to do with resolution.

5 hours ago, zlfan said:

my purpose is to adapt my ff manual focus lenses on this camera for handheld shooting.

I know gh7, om1 mkii are good for ibis. but they are maybe only good <100mm. or can they stabilize lenses of 200 mm well?

I just got the 14-140mm F3.5-5.6 Panasonic zoom lens, and in combination with my GX85 they do DualIS which utilises the IBIS and the OIS together.

I'm able to hand-hold up to about 100mm, which is same FOV as 200mm on FF.

The problem of stabilisation is that there's no standard for testing, and each person has differing abilities to hold a camera steady.  If you're able to rig the camera in a way that makes it steadier then that will significantly improve your ability to get stable shots.  For example, having the camera on a small tripod and using the tripod to brace the camera against your body, or using the string trick to hold the camera to the ground, or using a strap to pull it away from your body and stabilise it that way, etc.

3 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

Tell you what, art happened infront and with my camera whenever the battery quit working.😊

Maybe you need two...  one to have the battery fail and the other one to be rolling and catch the moment!