IronFilm

1 hour ago, Eno said:

Good video in a canon DSLR is ancient history, Canon themselves takes very good care not to repeat the 5D mk2 "mistake" from the past. For us video makers there's nothing to see here, all that Canon wants from us is into buying the very expensive Cxx line cameras and if we want both very good photo and video capabilities we should look elsewhere!

And Canon only made the 5Dmk2 "mistake" in the first place because they got "forced" into it by Nikon! 

Because Nikon released their D90 first. 

No, we're not saying audio gear will last "forever".
But relative to camera gear, audio gear will last you longer. (which means it can be a relatively better investment)

Your audio recorders will last you longer than the typical camera life cycle, and microphones will last you at least as long as lenses and probably even longer.

I guess my problem is the lack of balance here, how in one thread it is so wrong to spend $1K on audio gear yet on the next thread over it is all ok and normalized to spend $8K on camera gear. 

 

3 hours ago, Damphousse said:

The Tascam 60D came out at $350 and EVERYBODY that reviewed it said it was a heck of a deal at that price. 

And I'm not denying it is a heck of deal! We are on the same page about that :-) I started out with a Tascam DR60D mk1 (well, had a Zoom H1 for a couple of years before then, but I'm not counting that).

But I almost kinda get the impression from reading your post that you regard the DR60D and F4 as being on par with each other??? Which is pretty delusional thinking. Is like trying to tell me a T2i and a C300 are the same as each other because they're both 8bit video cameras. Errr.... what?? They're so much more than that!

Yes, you can do great work with a DR60D just like we have seen in this forum you can also with a T2i when treated carefully and you work to its strengths (and avoid its weaknesses).  But what happens when you move outside that limited range of uses where it shines? The T2i/DR60D will struggle and fail

What I'm striving to see in this forum, is greater balance here between camera and sound. 
So sure if you're using a T2i, then a DR60D is going to be a good match for that. 
But if you're shooting with say a Panasonic GH5, with a nice set of lenses, gimbal, quality tripod, a decent lighting kit, etc  then you shouldn't be using a DR60D at the core of your audio kit! I'd suggest something instead in the range of a DR70D to 633 instead.

3 hours ago, Damphousse said:

  A comparably priced Sound Devices unit has analog limiters that are actually functional.

And where is this comparably priced Sound Devices? 
If you mean the MixPre6, it still lacks some of the functions/features of the F8/F4. 
Yet the MixPre6 costs more than the F4. 

And if you mean the MixPre3 (which costs the same as an F4): the one with only 3 ISO tracks, oh hell no The MixPre3 is a way way to crippled machine to seriously consider. (but then again if you really REALLY want that ultra compact size, and CERTAIN you'd never need more than 3 inputs, then maaaaaybe it might make sense. Maybe)

Additionally I find the whole issue of analogue vs digital limiters to be way waaaaay overblown, yes it would be nice if the F4/F8 had anologue limiters too. But it is *not* the big deal most people seem to make it out to be. 

After all many professional recorders use some form of digital limiters, for instance the latest Zaxcom recorders, or the Sound Devices 633 on inputs 4 to 6. 
So rather than just saying blindly something like "all digital limiters are BAD, they're all the same, and are always a dealbreaker to me" you should take a more refined approach to it. (personally I'd rather have Zaxcom's Neverclip technology rather than Sound Device's analogue limiters)

Also we should remember you should NOT be using your limiters hard on every shot. If you are, you're being an idiot, and should turn down your gain. 
Limiters are just there as a last gasp insurance safety measure. 

An even better safety approach (as using limiters of any sort, analogue or digital, is not ideal) is to run a safety track at the same time (which the MixPre6 can't do), to handle the extreme circumstances you might come across. 

Additionally if you need to think about the source before it even hits your recorder, if you're using wireless and it is distorting before it even reaches you then it doesn't matter what kind of limiters you have! Because of these reasons, and others, the whole analogue vs digital limiters thing is a little overblown.

3 hours ago, Damphousse said:

  You should seriously watch BTM_Pix's video. 

I watched Curtis Judd's video when it was first uploaded! :-) I'm a big fan of his channel. And I even went back and watched that YT video just now all over again just for the hell of it :-D
But a few points:
1) he isn't a perfect God of knowledge. For instance it seems flawed to me to promote the Zoom H1 + lav as an option when the Tascam DR10 is so much superior for this niche/price range. 
2) he is targeting his YT channel at the low end and/or videographer (not sound recordist). So his remarks need to be remembered within that context

But overall he is pretty ok, & I agree with him more often than not.  He is also a fan of the Zoom F4 too! (even though the F4 hadn't came out yet at the point of that video upload, he still talks positively about the F4 & recommends waiting for its release)

For instance I say (if you've seen my blog post, or even just the comments here on this forum):

No budget: Tascam DR60Dmk2
Ultra Low budget: Tascam DR70D
Low budget / Semi Pro: Zoom F4 / F8
Entry point for pro grade: Sound Devices 633

And yeah, Curtis Judd pretty mentions the same ones and ranks them like that too.

3 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

Anecdotal.

As a counterpoint I was in Chengdu China a couple months ago and Sony was demo-ing the A9 to a crowd of about 50 people, including three bodies with GM zooms. This was just before the A9 shipped. They went outside to shoot a model dancing around, everyone had the chance to shoot with the cameras and pull their respective images off the card.

After it was released I saw them at every Chinese Sony dealer.

Maybe Sony is trying harder in the Chinese market because it is a brand new market (relatively speaking) so it will be easy to break in and smash the status quo that is in other countries? 

3 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

Just went to Adorama and B&H in NYC this weekend, each had a couple A9's out for people to tinker with and they had bodies in stock.

Well that is no surprise, they're two of the biggest retailers in the world!

1 hour ago, Damphousse said:

I think you may be very close to the truth.  Kodak was the first company to file for a digital camera patent in the United States.  They did it before I was born.  It was some time in the 70s.

More recently in 2005 Kodak was the number one digital camera company in the US.  It is funny how many posts you see on the internet asking why Kodak didn't "innovate".  They did.  But consumer electronics is a cut throat business with thin margins.  I haven't gone back and pulled Kodak's financials from the 70s and 80s and inflation adjusted them but I suspect they were doing much better than the camera divisions of Canon, Nikon, and Sony... by a wide margin.  I just look at the compensation packages, perks, and benefits of the Kodak workers back in the seventies.  I will have to do a bunch of googling but I remember hearing stories about Kodak in the heyday that clearly indicated fat margins.

Kodak innovated to a limited extent, but they didn't push it, they wanted to protect their cash cow: film. 

Just like Canon, who is innovating to a small extent, but mostly is trying to protect their products from themselves (vs protecting against competitors!).

With the notable exception of the Zoom F8/F4 (and to a lesser extent, the Sound Devices MixPre6).

Which is why we rave on so much about the amazing Zoom F4!!

To give a lens analogy, it would be a bit like if Samyang/Rokinon released a 400mm f2.8 AF OIS lens! Would be very surprising, and out of left field, and would be way less in cost than the competition! (although being a 1st generation product, it would lack the maturity/integration/reputation of the big established players).

On 5/7/2017 at 3:36 AM, webrunner5 said:

Yes and you have to take into account that X amount of people Only paid 500 bucks for one for awhile.

I keep on kinda hoping the Micro would get a $500 sale too!

Would be super tempted to get that! (although I shouldn't.... now I'm fully focused on being a soundie, rather than cameraman)

As a 2nd matching camera, with the flexibility of 60fps and having full size HDMI, would be nice! I'd run the BMMCC as the A cam, with the BMPCC as B cam.

On 5/7/2017 at 3:36 AM, webrunner5 said:

A F3 is old just like my Af100

There is a gulf of a gap between the F3 and AF100 however.

17 hours ago, Arikhan said:

I don't do it voluntarily. Let me explain, it's very simple: Super tele primes 300 / 400 F2.8 stablizied lenses for Nikon/Canon are unrivaled - there is NO third party alternative. No option to consider...You have just to pay the price the manufacturer / seller asks for it...And these lenses are not cheap. For sound recording, there are quite many options and a great competition, giving us users the possibility - depending on personal needs and requirements - to make a choice...

Actually it is *exactly* the same when it comes to sound recording.

Just like you have Canon/Nikon as the only option, you have Sonosax/Sound Devices/Zaxcom as the *only* option in the sound world (well ok, Aaton Canter as well, but their cheapest makes Sound Devices look dirt cheap!). So if you want that 400mm f2.8 you have to spend the big bucks for a Zaxcom etc

Of course, you could get a Tascam DR70D but that is like settling for a Tamron 70-300mm f/4.0-5.6  instead of a Canon 400mm f2.8

Of course that Tamron might be a perfectly suitable lens for your kids' soccer games. And there is nothing wrong with many people buying a Tamron 70-300mm f/4.0-5.6 if that is right for them. Just like the Tascam DR70D will be the right choice for many people too.

But it is a bit insulting to the Canon 400mm f2.8 to think that Tamron can come anywhere near close to it in performance? Likewise if you do a Tascam DR70D vs Sonosax SX-R4+ comparison. & think they're similar.

Anyway, nothing wrong with not picking the Canikon 300/400mm f2.8, & nothing wrong with not going with Sonosax / Zaxcom / Sound Devices.

Just please remember the context here! We're basically discussing what is the best telezoom kit lens will suit your needs best (or maybe something a little different/better, like the Tamron 18-400mm or streeeetching the budget to a secondhand Sigma 100-300mm f4).

6 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Yes, it's a good job Canon's competition has also made some really bad mistakes, this seems to be the latest one.

They are not doing enough smart things to turn that market around.

Canon and Nikon will continue to rule the pro stills market because Sony and Panasonic simply haven't figured out a way to change the status quo yet.

Part of the problem is the lenses.

It's a tricky one. I can't figure it out myself... still working through the problem in my head before offering any good solutions after years of thinking about it... My current feedback to Sony would be... "Erm, yeah, good luck!"

Overcoming the lens issues would havee been less of an issue for Nikon if early on they'd offered a cinema camera (with a sub mount under F mount).

Just like how Sony made massive inroads against Canon with the FS7 vs C300. Because people in the cinema world don't care about auto focus and native lenses as much.

However it could be too late if Nikon tried to join in now.

9 hours ago, Arikhan said:

Yes, it seems to fit my needs for an affordable price. The F4 seems to be a much more advanced device, but it's much more expensive too...The final question will be: Do I really need the advanced functionality of the F4 for my usage?

If you're  a solo shooter on a tight budget, then probably half the features of the F4 you might not appreciate. 

But if you think in the future there is any chance you might specialise as a location sound recordist, then the Zoom F4 becomes a no brainer choice. 

3 hours ago, Kisaha said:

@Damphousse I am very serious about sound; you seem to be 188$ serious about it, which is not much, if you consider that you can keep, and work with such a device, for the next dozen years at least. You can record on your iPhone these days, from dead cheap to DPA expensive, cheap Tascam's like DR 40 do the job, everything is fine. 

I'm picking up six DPA microphones today! :-o

7 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

The £300ish difference is probably something you wouldn't think twice over if it was a camera body or a lens I would imagine.

 

This.

Sadly this.

People quibble over spending a few hundred for audio gear, yet will drop thousands in a blink of an eye on camera gear and lights.

Makes me sad when I see sets where the entire audio equipment is costing the same as a single lens the camera department has :-/ 
Which often is true in the indie low budget world.

Of course when I show up...  we get the reverse problem! lol
Where my entire audio kit is costing more than what the camera department has. Ha

7 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Its IBC next week so make sure you keep an eye on that in case someone comes up with a new model before you take the plunge.

 

Fingers crossed for a Sound Devices 633 mk2! Or a new Sonosax or Zaxcom. 
Athough it would be better if they don't release anything.... don't think I could afford them this year! :-o
I'll be sticking with my Zoom F4 for a while longer ;-)

4 hours ago, Damphousse said:

I own the Tascam 60D MK I.  It's build quality is not "terrible".  Are you playing ice hockey with it?  And the power options are fine.  USB power powers it all day with any quality external phone/tablet battery solution.  I can power my BMPCC and my Tascam off the same external battery pack and get hours of use off of it.

 

I agree, the Tascam DR60D (I also used to own a DR60D mk1) is not quite the build level of a Sound Devices (or even a Zoom F4), the build quality of the DR60D is still not a big practical concern. If that is all a person can afford, then don't let that factor into holding you back from buying one!

 It should, as it covers S35

Also consider the Tokina 11-16mm PL lens as well.

On 8/30/2017 at 3:16 PM, jonpais said:

Matthew Scott prefers the BMPCC and BMMCC to the Red Scarlet.

See blog post

There are also downloadable files for comparison.

Thanks for that! I would read his blog now and then but has been while.
Was a really good!

Catching up on these ones for instance:

http://mattscottvisuals.com/blog/2016/7/14/bmpcc-optical-low-pass-filter-swap-no-more-ir-contamination

http://mattscottvisuals.com/blog/2016/2/1/thepocketcameraeffect

Oh and of course this one makes an extra good point:

http://mattscottvisuals.com/blog/2015/9/23/cinesound

On 8/14/2017 at 9:32 AM, Riadnasla said:

Does anyone here still use the BMPCC? I remember the plethora of lacking features and bugs when it got released, but haven't heard much since then. 

 

Surprised you haven't heard much since, it is a very popular camera!

On 8/14/2017 at 9:32 AM, Riadnasla said:

Has it improved? What should I know before picking one up?

The BMPCC of 2017 is a totally different camera from the one they released! (& even the one they released was very good too! Just now you have a drastically better user interface)

On 8/30/2017 at 6:31 PM, Snowfun said:

I switched from the Pocket and BM 2.5 cinema to 2 Micros. Really happy with the setup (smallHD and BMVA for monitors mounted on smallrig cages).

 

Yeah, although I own a BMPCC myself, if I was buying today I'd probably go for a Micro rather than a Pocket. 

As a Micro is like a Pocket v2.0!

And I'd never go for a BMCC EF over a BMPCC, and would only prefer a BMCC MFT over a BMPCC is everything is 100% on a tripod.

On 9/3/2017 at 5:12 AM, mercer said:

No purpose really, just curiosity. I am thinking about getting another Micro in a couple months, especially after seeing that the Ursa handgrip works with the Micro's Lanc. 

Ohhh!! I didn't know that. Good to know (although I neither own an URSA or Micro :-P ).

On 9/3/2017 at 4:05 AM, mercer said:

I was always curious how that 9mm body cap lens would fare on the Micro... how do you like it? I have seen a few videos with it on the Pocket and it seemed better than expected.

Hmmm... I have that lens. Never thought about using it on the Pocket, as surely the f8 at best would be a pain in the ass?

Am thinking about using my BMPCC with the Panasonic 14mm pancake and the wide angle adapter for it for my vblogging usage. As my cellphone camera is such a total piece of sh*t!
Did my latest vblogs with the BMPCC and that lens pairing:

But yeah, might give the 9mm bodycap a go if I know I'll be filming outdoors with lots of sunlight. 

However of course the biggest issue with the BMPCC for vblogging is the lack of a flip up screen! Wish I could buy a super cheap 3" monitor for vblogging, as all I'd want to use it for is framing so 3" would be big enough and I'd love the compact size.

13 hours ago, rasilov said:

I just bought a new SD card - exactly the same problem: ticking at about 3.5 Hz and continuous soft buzz at approx 1kHz.  I'm going to buy either the Zoom H6 if I can trust another Zoom, or the Tascam DR40 unless anyone can suggest a cheaper simpler one, bearing in mind I only need mono recording.

If you just want a simple cheap handheld recorder then go for the Tascam DR22WL

What will you be using this for btw?

If you want to take it a little bit more seriously, then have a read of my latest blog post before choosing what to buy next:

http://ironfilm.co.nz/which-sound-recorder-to-buy-a-guide-to-various-indie-priced-sound-recorders-in-2017/

11 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

The input level of the H1 pre likes to be on the low side or extraneous noise can be noticeable. Use an input level of 33 rather than 99, for example. 

 

Yeah, what are you setting your gain to rasilov?

If a person doesn't need:

5th & 6th inputs.

Time code.

Hirose power connection.

XLR outputs.

Metadata entry.

USB interface.

Flexible file naming.

(& much more)

Then yes the Tascam DR70D could be a worthy lower priced option.

But those other things I mentioned are VERY handy. Some are essential even (such as TC & metadata entry) if working as a sound recordist on bit bigger productions.

But if you just need the basics of a 4 ISO track recorder then the Tascam DR70D will be fine enough for now.

Hopefully they would? As for a long while they were the *ONLY* English speaking distributor for Kinefinity! :-o

36 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

With regard to battery life with it, I'm not sure whether this would be a massive drawback when you power it from USB.

This video tests it running for 11 1/2 hours off a cheap 12,000 mAh block with all channels recording and with phantom switched on all of them.

Yes I agree the battery life with the Tascam DR70D is a non-issue. Just use an external power supply!

It is quite normal with ALL recorders that if you have a full shoot day, then you just use an external power supply.

Even if you've dumped billions of dollars and purchased a new Sound Devices / Zaxcom / Sanosax recorder, then you still use an external power supply.

So I don't see it as a massive negative to criticise the DR70D for that, just that the micro USB connection is not as ideal as Hirose.

I have never owned a Tascam DR70D, but I used one when I was starting out, when I was the sound recordist for a feature film.

 And I had an issue with it, also with my Tascam DR60D mk1 that I had at the time, but all was solved with a simple firmware update:

http://ironfilm.co.nz/firmware-update-for-tascam-dr-60d-mk1-fixes-recording-interruptions-when-running-on-external-usb-power-packs/

On Saturday, September 09, 2017 at 6:49 PM, Mattias Burling said:

I have to be honest here. There is always alot of talk about how these cameras are way better than that camera etc. But never any footage. Never any reviews. Never any first hand experience.

Because you need to hang out in the Kinefinity Facebook group for that.

Basically is the only place (in English that is, there seem to be places very active in Chinese however) that actively discusses Kinefinity (it almost never comes up on EOSHD, & even less often on many other forums) & has actual Kinefinity owners on it.

The Zoom F4 is the best buy for bang for buck sound recorder right now from the lower priced options.

The Zoom F4 is insanely low priced (a steal!) for how much it does.

Only if you really need the more inputs or Bluetooth, would I suggest the more expensive F8 instead.

And I'd only recommend the MixPre6 (ignore the MixPre3!! Too crippled for its price) if you really REALLY need that HDMI triggering. Otherwise get an F4.

If you're on an ultra super tight budget, get a Tascam DR70D. But once you own a DR70D, then there is almost no reason whatsoever to own a H5/H6.

Anyway, this is all just a repeat of what I said in my latest blog post:

http://ironfilm.co.nz/which-sound-recorder-to-buy-a-guide-to-various-indie-priced-sound-recorders-in-2017/

20 hours ago, Phil A said:

And it has a 1.85 crop, so slightly smaller sensor than s35 / APS-C

Which is the same more or less as the RED Raven.

HOWEVER..... the Kinefinity Terra is massively better than the RED Raven in this instance, because unlike the Raven the Terra has a MFT mount option. Thus it is no more a negative than it was with say the GH2 (and it isn't a negative really! Just look at the feature film Upstream Color, overuse of shallow DoF even! & shot on a GH2).

 

20 hours ago, Phil A said:

At US $3,999, it probably has to be rather good in first reviews to be a new, better alternative to the KineMini 4k or the BMD  Production Camera 4k.

It is already better than the KineMini 4K, being a newer model and a much smaller form factor.

And it is a bit of a joke to compare it with the BMPC4K. It will be way ahead of the BMPC4K for sure.

11 hours ago, rasilov said:

Thanks for that info. Really all I need is a recorder to record single channel mono (I don't even need stereo), but what is important is that there is absolutely no digital noise on the sound as there was with the Zoom H1. There must be no recorded noise other than the quantising noise which for 16 bits will be -96dB, and of course the mic hiss.

You should probably record 24bits btw

I purchased the Zoom F4 earlier this year, but only just now got around to uploading an unboxing of it that I filmed ages ago on my cellphone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXSLbg8DrqA

This is my thoughts on the various options for sound recorders we can choose from on the market:

http://ironfilm.co.nz/which-sound-recorder-to-buy-a-guide-to-various-indie-priced-sound-recorders-in-2017/
 

On 9/6/2017 at 10:19 PM, rokkimort said:

I'm looking at specs and they are looking pretty good, so I wanted to scout the prices, and only found new ones for sale in Germany for 6k euro+. Ebay search through sold listings does not show anything as well, so I'm wondering if these cameras are still a valid purchase? Don't they make them anymore? I was expecting to see used ones below 4k, but there are simply none. Does anyone have an idea why?

Outside China there are not too many Kinefinity bodies in existence. 

So you will have a tough search on your hands if you want to pick one up secondhand. 

There is however one KineMAX 6K on eBay right now (saw it got listed just a couple of days ago, as I keep a saved eBay search for them, so I get automatic emails), something like $5K ish I think it was?!

Of more relevance perhaps to you, is just a few days back Kinefinity announced a new Terra 4K camera!! :-o So that is the camera I'd suggest you'd keep a keen eye on watching its developments leading up to its release later this year. (will basically be kinda like a RED Raven, but at a heaps lower price, and a better body)

1 hour ago, Gregormannschaft said:

And how each camera matches with drone footage.

And a side by side next to an iPhone

http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/09/06/sony-unveils-venice-36x24mm-full-frame-digital-motion-picture-camera-system/

"the camera’s lens mount can also be changed to E-mount (lever lock type), which opens up a lot more options for using a wide variety of lenses."

Today marks the end of Sony's FZ mount :-( As a Sony F3 owner it makes me a little sad :-/ But I'm not too surprised (& the FS7mk2 was a small hint), as I half expected this day to arrive eventually.

This does make Panasonic look even more dumb now, because they didn't announce their EVA1 with a locking MFT mount. (As heck, Sony can put E mount into their highest of high end cameras!!)

"The Sony VENICE CineAlta digital motion picture camera system is scheduled to be available in February 2018. No pricing information was given on release."

Reckon I'll be able to afford it with what I find down the back of the couch?

T-S in video is rather rare, he can still stand out without using them. 
And if the budgets are so low and turn around is so tight, then they don't justify being used anyway!