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Ideal settings for GH3? (color grading and a first example)


81 posts in this topic

Posted

Haha not too technical. The more I learn about filming the technical it gets. Now I'm diving into the audio technics. I think you need to understand the technical part too. 

 

I will do my next project at home flat and dive into the world of color grading. Keep you posted about that. For my trip I will stick to flat AVCHD doing the rough editing parts and sorting on road  and fine tune edit and post at home - but first have to cycle 14 months. Time to start preparing the trip and work out my outline script 

 

Again thanxs all for the tips!

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Posted

who said anything about grading EVERY single clip?

if you have 20 shots under the same lighting or sunlight, and so on, you would create a preset and drop that 1 preset on the 20 other clips.

 

and you would not be hard pressed to notice a difference in avchd, 50 & 72.  I'm doing a test of this right now and there are some obvious differences, mainly compression.  a 1 TB external HD isn't that expensive now day, so to worry about storage space is irrelevant, and to travel on the road, with all your files on the computer and no backup source has BAD NEW written all over it.

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Posted

who said anything about grading EVERY single clip?

if you have 20 shots under the same lighting or sunlight, and so on, you would create a preset and drop that 1 preset on the 20 other clips.

 

and you would not be hard pressed to notice a difference in avchd, 50 & 72.  I'm doing a test of this right now and there are some obvious differences, mainly compression.  a 1 TB external HD isn't that expensive now day, so to worry about storage space is irrelevant, and to travel on the road, with all your files on the computer and no backup source has BAD NEW written all over it.

 

Yep I already knew I can copy paste in grading and yep I also know I have to make backups of my footage on my trip. I do this at home as well. I may be a beginner on certain levels but not completely blond   :P

Anyway Gravitatemediagroup wonderful how you helped out and I'm looking forward to your test - hope you'll give me a notice when it's done. Thinking of doing a test myself with all the camera settings. 

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Posted

lol it's a pretty boring test, and you may have to skip back and forth around the video to really make comparisons 

it's kind of a gh2 vs gh3 test, but it just has a little bit of each setting of the gh3 with the same lighting and same subjects for the most part

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Posted

Here is my test I did today.  There are a few notes to be aware of:

 

1) There is moire evident when set at 0 (roof of the pavilion).  At -5 there is none, although the compression of youtube introduces moire.

2) Excessive sharpening in post is akin to sharpening in-camera by re-introducing moire.  Not only that but it also exacerbates banding as well.  The last shot of the sunset, you can see a sort of "pulsing" wave above the sun.  This is not present in either the 0 or -5 setting, although you can see some banding in the 0 setting.

3) There is a lot of noise at -5, but there's more detail too.  Proper noise reduction will help.

4) Contrast isn't easy to fix.  I made a bunch of other shots, however I wasn't able to match them.

 

Never forget we're dealing with an 8 bit codec.  You can grade the footage, but only so far.  And trying to fix things in post could result in worse problems.  The banding was especially surprising, and it looks worse in the ProRes version.  I think it best to find the right compromise for the type of shooting you do.  And you have to get your exposure and contrast as close to final version as possible.  The GH3 is better than the GH2, and you have some room to adjust, but it still isn't a whole lot. 

 

http://youtu.be/qxxFe_y-2y4

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Posted

@nahua thats why you don't ned excessive sharpening, the gh3 detail alone is fine, but to match it with a hacked gh2 you would need to add a PINCH.

 

and moire is something that will probably be an issue for a few more years to come.  I see broadcast cameras suffer from it also.

 

and I really hope you aren't considering "boosting" the saturation 150% on 8bit color your grading process

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Posted

Great trial @Nahua, thanxs!

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Posted

Hi Blanche,

 

I think if you are going to be shooting for that long you will come back as a professional and teach us all some tricks.

 

May I make a couple of suggestions.

 

1) You should learn a little about 'in camera editing' techniques.

Basically this is shooting with a rough edit in mind.

So shooting 'establishing shots', 'cutaways', holding shots for 10 seconds.

You will probably learn all this yourself on your trip but a little bit of prior knowledge would help a lot.

It would help you by reducing the amount of footage you shoot and help you decide what would be useful to film.

 

2) Look into 'cloud' based storage. This is where you upload your footage, your data, to remote servers.

I don't really know too much about this but I certainly agree with others that carrying all your footage on external hard drives has 'disaster waiting to happen' written all over it.

Maybe look into some sites like 'dropbox' and 'clesh'

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Posted

@Matt

 

I think she is fine with keeping everything  on external, just don't keep EVERY thing on the laptop/pc that you are using.

And what would be REALLY nice is if you had 2 externals, and every so often send one back home, have somebody dump it, and have it sent back.  Not sure your situation or how easy it would be to send/receive mail,but it's a thought. 

 

Also, with massive amounts of footage I don't think cloud storage would be the best options because it would take FOREVER, unless you had some pretty seious internet. 

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Posted

I think with massive amounts it wouldn't work.

It is just an idea.

We don't know how much footage is intended to be shot.

Can you imagine having an external drive with 10 months footage stolen or lost.

 

I did think maybe buy 5 or 6 external drives and sending one back every so often.

I like the idea of someone backing it up for you so you know the footage is safe and not on a drive that got damaged in the post.

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Posted

yeah, 500gb - 1TB dirves aren't too terribly expensive anymore.  If you are trying to keep your footage safe, spare no expense.

I've learned that the hard way and now.......

I have everything on my main PC HD, I have another HD that mirrors my main PC. I'm about to install another 2TB internal to drag and drop to, and periodicaly I backup to an external, and for stuff that I REALLYYYYY don't want to lose I store to to what would be a 5th HD (external)

Like I said, I've learned the hard.  Its a bit excessive, but it's ALOT easier to delete old footage from a HD than to recover a corrupted or fried HD ; )

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Posted

Hi Blanche,

 

I think if you are going to be shooting for that long you will come back as a professional and teach us all some tricks.

 

May I make a couple of suggestions.

 

1) You should learn a little about 'in camera editing' techniques.

Basically this is shooting with a rough edit in mind.

So shooting 'establishing shots', 'cutaways', holding shots for 10 seconds.

You will probably learn all this yourself on your trip but a little bit of prior knowledge would help a lot.

It would help you by reducing the amount of footage you shoot and help you decide what would be useful to film.

 

2) Look into 'cloud' based storage. This is where you upload your footage, your data, to remote servers.

I don't really know too much about this but I certainly agree with others that carrying all your footage on external hard drives has 'disaster waiting to happen' written all over it.

Maybe look into some sites like 'dropbox' and 'clesh'

 

 

- Thanxs for your tips but I know already know scripts  and are using it (except the last Panasonic Trial)  - I followed a short course camera journalism and almost finished the book Directing The Documentary. Besides that I watch documentaries, analyzing the scripting and reading about a lot in my spare time. Lately I'm practicing scripting and storytelling with camera interviews. My latest is about a man who makes glass art made with a canon hf 100.

 

- Yeah could based storage would be great but I will travel mainly in a region where the internet connections ar not that fast Central Asia, Iran, the Himalaya and parts of China. So uploading will be a pain in the a....  :rolleyes:

 

- Gravitade. - Yeah I know, and I will create two backups all on solid disks. Thinking of sending one disk home and when it arrives home and a friend mad a back up there, deleting the back up I have on the road. (edit) O I just red some of you also suggested this. 

 

 

Next thing on the preparing-for-filming-list = have to find out if I can do a pre -edit and aftherwards save and re wrap my footage into comprimized stuff and reconnect it again at home. I hope it works. 

 

 

 

 

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Posted

@Blanche

View some tutorials on color grading with the on-board tools of FCP X (skip the ones that suggest you can do without the scopes or use automatic functions or match colors). I disagree with every single post that says you create one preset and paste it. Why? Because your already good images can be so much improved by thorough grading. Do it as the last step, after editing is finished. It should take a minute or two for every clip.

 

NEVER 'share' your film directly 'for vimeo', because that means, that the inferior Quicktime H.264 encoder is used, and the film is simplified too much. The fade in at the beginning shows 'temporal banding'. You can avoid it completely, if you put a very subtle amount of grain on top of this clip, export as ProRes master and encode an x264 mp4 (for the vimeo upload) with the free x264 encoder from the high quality master.

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Posted

@Blanche

View some tutorials on color grading with the on-board tools of FCP X (skip the ones that suggest you can do without the scopes or use automatic functions or match colors). I disagree with every single post that says you create one preset and paste it. Why? Because your already good images can be so much improved by thorough grading. Do it as the last step, after editing is finished. It should take a minute or two for every clip.

 

NEVER 'share' your film directly 'for vimeo', because that means, that the inferior Quicktime H.264 encoder is used, and the film is simplified too much. The fade in at the beginning shows 'temporal banding'. You can avoid it completely, if you put a very subtle amount of grain on top of this clip, export as ProRes master and encode an x264 mp4 (for the vimeo upload) with the free x264 encoder from the high quality master.

 

Thanxs - I have entrance to verry good lynda.com grading tutorials on FCP-X so that's got me going.

I don't really know if I understand the uploading suggestion you suggest. 
- how do I add grain? 

- how do I export as ProRes master

- and encode this precisly to x264. Sorry for being a bit lazy, I haven't got time and access opportunity to try it out with FCP-X right now.

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Posted

@axel

My suggestion is to create a preset for only the clips that were shot at the same time.  If you shot 10 clips within 15 minutes the lighting will not have changed that much to cause a difference.  don't use the same preset for clips shot 6 hours earlier, the day before and the day of. 

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Posted

- how do I add grain? 

 

Simply by >effects >stylize >film grain >realistic grain (as opposed to iMovie grain) >amount between 5 - 12%

 

BTW & OT: With Motion 5 as a developer tool for FCP X effects, much more could be rigged. So for example the complex filters of the 'Film Convert' plugin.  It takes into account that analog color film stock is composed of three layers of colors (not channels) resp. layers of colored grain, magenta, cyan and yellow, with different characteristics, depending on the emulsions speed, and that the three layers have a slightly different focus. My opinion is, that mimicking a certain film stock is useless though, because we live in a digital world, and we only fine-tune a look with such filters.

 

- how do I export as ProRes master

 

You make the project setting ProRes or ProResHQ, then you export as 'original'. Or specifically ProRes (Compressor preset, since 10.6 to be saved in the share menu).

 

- and encode this precisly to x264. Sorry for being a bit lazy, I haven't got time and access opportunity to try it out with FCP-X right now.

 

I think the best way is to install the free MpegStreamclip, download the free X264 QT-encoder-component (I use this one). You open the master with MpegStreamclip, then you export as mp4 and choose 'X264 encoder'. 

 

If you downscale 1080 to 720 for vimeo, check 'better downscaling' in MSC, avoids scaling artifacts (moire!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted

@axel

 

you are trying to hard, end of discussion 

from now on, you don't worry about my post, and i won't worry about yours

 

you lost all credibility with me in 3 words "when you film"  .......for future reference, don't use the word "film" when discussing 

digital cameras.  it's slap in the face to the pioneers.

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Posted

you lost all credibility with me in 3 words "when you film"  .......for future reference, don't use the word "film" when discussing 

digital cameras.  it's slap in the face to the pioneers.

 

So noted. Maybe that 'filming' instead of 'recording video' (or what?) is a germanism. The sloppyness of my native language is notorious. I didn't mean to imply anything. Or did you make a joke? Sigh, I am lost with the niceties of english ...

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Posted

shoot or shot works

 

i've made a promise to myself from here on out, when I see people use the word "film" when talking about digital to correct them, so that they can continue to pass it on and eventually everone will be on the same page ; )

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Posted

@Axel thanxs I'm already working with MPG streamclip so I try that setting.

 

@Gravi... Yesterday I went to a film festival and I bet all those films where digital so ...
I also do use the word film in some cases. Let's not talk words though and stay o the topic, Who cares if we call it video making or filming. Everybody does understand what we're talking about!   ;)

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Posted

@blanche

you are missing my point, it's a bad trend going around that needs to stop

it's a slap in the face  to the pioneers, and "film makers" that are still doing everything they can to keep film alive.

 

at the film festivel, in what way were the movies being shown?

if it was digital transfered to film, I would give it somewhat more credit being "viewed on film"

if movies were shown on a projector hooked to a laptop, then it was called a "movie festivel"

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Posted

@Gravi..

I'm sorry not a native english speaker and yeah therefore not getting your point.
The festival was the International Film Festival in Rotterdam....http://www.filmfestivalrotterdam.com/en/
And in the Netherlands that is called FILM. When making a video, you also use filming in dutch. 

 

But let's refrain from names and words and return to the film/video/making in this forum!

 

Blanche -
Now a bit confused what to use for what avoiding slapping in faces ...

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Posted

A new name should be found. I don't like the name 'video' personally, because it derives from an unfitting historical background. From when 'video' meant recordings of events, not creating and editing images.

 

But the name 'film' will only cease to be generally used once the videomakers stop looking for cinematic travesty. And this will take a long time, unless you and the other 'pioneers' are just about to change this.

 

On wednesday, a local TV-team made a report about my restaurant, with a C500 and a 5D. I didn't see the finished video yet, but I saw clearly that they tried hard to make it look like film. Everybody does, if I didn't miss the latest trend.

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Posted

I did some research on the noise grain in 50Mbit long-gop vs 72Mbit ALL-I

 

Actually the noise grain is the same in 50Mbit 24p and 72Mbit 24p. But it is different between 50Mbit 50/60p and 72mbit 24p especially in motion. Less noise in the 50/60p codec.

 

But the difference is quite small. 50p is on the left versus 25p (I have PAL camera hence EU frame rates).

 

gh3-50p-vs-25p.jpg

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