Nikon Zr is coming

[Danyyyel]

3 hours ago, ND64 said:

NR is stronger on ZR, but its not just NR. There should be something else.

 

I think they have been tweaking the Sensor since they launched the Z6iii. The S1ii showed them that this sensor was better than what the Z6iii was capable of, even without the DR boost mode. Perhaps the sensor was a bit rushed for the launched of the Z6iii and since then, with Sony, they have been able to refine the settings 

[ND64]

5 hours ago, Danyyyel said:

Perhaps the sensor was a bit rushed for the launched of the Z6iii

That doesn't make sense. Tweaking sensor can't happen in few months, and it will be so expensive that it would be more feasible to make a new sensor from scratch. I don't believe they're different sensors. But the pipeline has been changed for sure. Maybe a new debayer algorithm and chroma noise reduction provided by RED is implemented. 

[Emanuel]

It is the pipeline, of course... :- )

[ND64]

Everything attached to this camera eclipses the body 😄

[Video Hummus]

On one hand, we have a video company (Panasonic) with a very robust video imaging pipeline, managing to squeeze an amazing amount of DR and latitude performance out of sensor that first appeared (lackluster; performance wise) in the Z6III. However, the camera was still heavily criticized for "terrible" rolling shutter performance and seemingly NOT being a SONY camera. Never-mind sony has released several cameras with terrible rolling shutter but people still shat their pants for them. The curse of being Panasonic LUMIX and not Sony Alpha.

Nikon's take-2 on the same partially stacked sensor housed in a new body--apparently designed less than 1.5 years after they bought RED (Press X for doubt) for a measly 85 million (RED probably had massive debts that Nikon absorbed). It seems to me they did their best to squeeze enough RED tech for marketing purposes into a camera that was clearly just designed to be a Z6III with a new body, minus EVF, and with a huge giant screen. More like a Version 0.5 of "Z Cinema" than a V1.0, IMHO.

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

The curse of being Panasonic LUMIX and not Sony Alpha

Yup, but to be fair, Lumix has had a lot of ‘love’ recently from the shill brigade but a lot of them will now (and have already started) flipping over to the ZR.

Soon though, Sony will be releasing the A7V and they will then flop back in that direction and will have gone full circle.

Beyond that, perhaps DJI will have popped out their rumored MILC and that will become The Next Big Thing?

It’s all inevitable.

[ND64]

Canon does nothing, or at least none of the above, and own 50% of the market. Just because of this global perception that the red brand is the Toyota of camera industry. Perception is key when it comes to business. 

[Ilkka Nissila]

7 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

On one hand, we have a video company (Panasonic) with a very robust video imaging pipeline, managing to squeeze an amazing amount of DR and latitude performance out of sensor that first appeared (lackluster; performance wise) in the Z6III. However, the camera was still heavily criticized for "terrible" rolling shutter performance and seemingly NOT being a SONY camera. Never-mind sony has released several cameras with terrible rolling shutter but people still shat their pants for them. The curse of being Panasonic LUMIX and not Sony Alpha.

Nikon's take-2 on the same partially stacked sensor housed in a new body--apparently designed less than 1.5 years after they bought RED (Press X for doubt) for a measly 85 million (RED probably had massive debts that Nikon absorbed). It seems to me they did their best to squeeze enough RED tech for marketing purposes into a camera that was clearly just designed to be a Z6III with a new body, minus EVF, and with a huge giant screen. More like a Version 0.5 of "Z Cinema" than a V1.0, IMHO.

Panasonic is reading the sensor slower in both the normal and DR boost modes, explaining how they can get more DR out of it than Nikon in their implementation. It may or may not be the same sensor. In any case Nikon's compromise is different from Panasonic's and these are both legitimate choices. The ZR was under development before Nikon acquired RED and what RED know-how they added in this camera is likely in the firmware (and post-processing support in the R3D NE format pipeline). In cined's testing the latitude test shows better retention of color across exposure adjustments in post-processing when using the R3D NE than N-RAW and so it would seem that the RED acquisition already paid off for Nikon to become more competitive in the video arena, and this is not just marketing if it benefits users. What Nikon should do now is try to make the h.265 a bit more competitive so that more people who cannot handle the raw data rates can still benefit from the camera. It would be very costly for everyone to shoot everything in R3D NE to get benefits from the camera. I personally am looking forward to seeing some Prores 422 HQ material shot with the camera and see how that fares in comparison with the Z8.

[ND64]

1 hour ago, Ilkka Nissila said:

What Nikon should do now is try to make the h.265 a bit more competitive

It is, but when exposed 2 stop ETTR. The NR is not fixed, and changes with S/N ratio, apparently.

[ghostwind]

2 hours ago, Ilkka Nissila said:

Panasonic is reading the sensor slower in both the normal and DR boost modes, explaining how they can get more DR out of it than Nikon in their implementation. It may or may not be the same sensor. In any case Nikon's compromise is different from Panasonic's and these are both legitimate choices. The ZR was under development before Nikon acquired RED and what RED know-how they added in this camera is likely in the firmware (and post-processing support in the R3D NE format pipeline). In cined's testing the latitude test shows better retention of color across exposure adjustments in post-processing when using the R3D NE than N-RAW and so it would seem that the RED acquisition already paid off for Nikon to become more competitive in the video arena, and this is not just marketing if it benefits users. What Nikon should do now is try to make the h.265 a bit more competitive so that more people who cannot handle the raw data rates can still benefit from the camera. It would be very costly for everyone to shoot everything in R3D NE to get benefits from the camera. I personally am looking forward to seeing some Prores 422 HQ material shot with the camera and see how that fares in comparison with the Z8.

It looks like the R3D offers about a 1/2 stop more DR than N-RAW and better color in the latitude tests, as you point out, so it's a tiny step over the Z6III. Interestingly, the Z9/Z8 have the same, or slightly better, DR using N-RAW as the ZR has using R3D. So the 4-year-old Z8/Z9 cameras still produce a comparable, lovely image. Very curious what they'll do with the Z9II/Z8II, as they can easily add R3D, but they need to have their cinema line and photo lines..