Nikon Zr is coming

[Danyyyel]

2 hours ago, Davide DB said:

Hummm, IDK if this could be an everyday camera for all the v-loggers out there.

IIUC according to Gerald, all of the codec implementations, with the exception of RedCode, are more than mediocre and are anyway worse than on other Nikon Z cameras.

In practice, if you want to use it, you have to use RedCode, but at 6K@60p, it consumes 470MB per second, and a 320GB CF Express card is full in 28 minutes.

Surely the FW is alpha or beta, and then with updates, things will change but ATM, we're shooting ants with a cannon.

The guy problem is that it is written cinema on this. So either you can film a hollywood movie with it, or it is shit. Someone should give him a film camera to see how many functionality their is, and hold and behold perhaps he might see something call grain. I mean I have been using Nikon since the z6, a Nikon files have been extremely robust. I got my Z9 3.5 years ago. At first I didn't even touch the 10 bit h265. Then I just used it just like that for some personal things, and nowadays I only use the RAW format when I want the absolute best. He just look at 400% at the files, he knows nothing about grading etc. 

[mercer]

30 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

That’s the end of an era right there.

I’ll have to part ex my S5ii and some lenses to get the Z8 like I should’ve done two years ago.

Less the end of an era and more the end of an error.

I have been interested in Nikon for so long. My favorite lenses are vintage Nikkors, one of my favorite cameras was the D5500 and the Z9 and Z8 look like fantastic hybrid cameras but waaaay beyond my budget as a hobbyist narrative filmmaker. The Z6iii got me close and the Z5ii even closer... the ZR... I think I may be sold. And Cam Mackey doesn't love it... so... LOL. Just kidding Cam if you read this site. 

[mercer]

33 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

 

Double post... sorry.

[Danyyyel]

3 hours ago, mercer said:

I know the phrase of the day is content creator, but I, personally, see this as the ultimate, low/no budget, DIY, short film camera. I don't think I have ever been so tempted to hit preorder.

I understand its inconveniences and there are a couple things I need to research... battery life (the FP is atrocious), overheating, IBIS quality, etc... but I must say this is the most excited I have been for a camera since I bought my 5D3 and installed ML Raw onto it.

People here would have dreamed about this camera just two years ago. People were crying for 10 bit and log like 5 years ago, and some people filmed movies with the Gh2 or Canon 5D. I am not saying this camera doesn't have flaws. But saying this is a camera for content creation when you have multiple Raw formats, and one color science that was only available to cameras costing 7k, but more precisely 10 k when you add the accessories in the apsc red komodo, and about 15-20k in full frame.

In fact you can film a movie with this. I am sad it did not happen 10-20 years ago, or I was not 10-20 years younger, thinking about this I prefer the later... Oh shit, looking how the world is going, I prefer the former. LOL

[KnightsFan]

5 minutes ago, Danyyyel said:

But saying this is a camera for content creation when you have multiple Raw formats, and one color science that was only available to cameras costing 7k, but more precisely 10 k when you add the accessories in the apsc red komodo, and about 15-20k in full frame.

That card placement is rough for anything other than handheld which is why it screams content creator to me. You can certainly find specific projects where it's not an issue, but if you're like me and only have a single camera used for all projects, that's a complete non starter. No way am I taking a camera all the way off the gimbal/tripod/jib/car rig to change cards, when there are other cameras--including the Z6III--that would save all that trouble. I understand some people really get into Raw, but I haven't cared about Raw ever since decent 10 bit capture became the norm, and you implied a similar thing earlier so we're on the same page for that, I think.

I mean of course I agree that 10 years ago, this would have been mind blowing, but that's just how it goes, right? Higher ability leads to higher expectation.

And to be extremely clear: everyone who finds this to be exactly what they want, that's great! Nikon just made a lot of strange choices in my opinion.

[eatstoomuchjam]

1 hour ago, Danyyyel said:

But saying this is a camera for content creation when you have multiple Raw formats, and one color science that was only available to cameras costing 7k, but more precisely 10 k when you add the accessories in the apsc red komodo, and about 15-20k in full frame.

To be clear, the OG Komodo was $7k several years ago - but nowadays, it's $3k new (and used, generally around $2,600, but I bet you could find one for $2,300ish if you tried).  And people often make it sound like thousands of dollars in accessories are needed, but you could just as easily add about $100 in third-party rig parts and a $200 monitor with SDI inputs and use it.  That's close to my setup - though I also have a $400 RVLVR handle that I bought for a different camera originally and a $300ish V-mount plate in my setup.  That and the monitor cost a bit more because I have a Pyro 5 on there so that it'll also have wireless transmission.  I'd say $3,000 for the body and $3,300 for a minimum reasonable working setup and $4,000 for a full setup, assuming that you don't already have the monitor, etc.

1 hour ago, KnightsFan said:

You can certainly find specific projects where it's not an issue, but if you're like me and only have a single camera used for all projects, that's a complete non starter.

Most definitely, but I also say all the time that the $10,000 Ronin 4D 8K is a great camera, but I wouldn't want it as my only camera.

[ND64]

Chinese netizens have a proverb saying: don't squeeze the whole toothpaste at once. 

A product that satisfy everyone might become a disaster for the company. Cause nobody will upgrade to Version 2.0. So they never define a line in their design goals to satisfy everyone. Every iteration keeps some pain points to reserve room for improvement in those specific areas in the next generations. Cripple Hammer is not a broad crippling with a rough hammer. Its a surgery precision cuts with at least three gen ahead in mind. Of course there is always a risk of bleeding. But the risk of not having a plan is greater. RED and Arri didn't have such a plan, and ended up searching for a buyer who has. 

 

[MrSMW]

7 hours ago, KnightsFan said:

Nikon just made a lot of strange choices in my opinion

I'm not sure I agree...

I think some folks expected Nikon to take everything from RED and simply dump it in a Nikon body and to then charge 20% of the price of a RED.

Was never going to happen. Who would then buy a RED camera going forward if they could basically get it all for a fraction of the price? 

Virtually no one and they would have cooked their golden goose.

What they have done is made a RED-lite camera (arguably more Nikon than RED) that can either act as a B cam to a RED user, or something for the Nikon user to use alongside other Nikon cameras they may already have such as the; Zf, Z6iii, Z8 or Z9. and give them a taste of RED, if not the full-blown illusion of shooting something much more than it is (the 'Creator FX3 effect').

Or for the minimalist, low-budget filmmaker (or content creator) who fancies a bit, but not full on, RED colour science and 'RAW-lite'.

I've watched a few reviews now and I'd definitely have gone for this (subject to overheating and battery life tests) for my needs as a hybrid shooter. In fact a pair along with a pair of Zf's (a pair of the new black & silver models) for a pretty compact, capable and fun to use set with a super-nice image output.

It's not a full-blown cinema camera and I do agree, the choice of placement for the card slots is bloody awkward (as it is for my S9), but that rear LCD more than makes up for it for me.

Now if they could just get the spec of the Zr into a Zf body...

[Kino]

$2K vs. $15K

Not 16 bit, but not bad!

The only problem here is that R3D NE (12 bit) is likely destined for much greater things, like the 8K Z9 II with a new sensor and better DR. That camera should be arriving in early 2026.

[MrSMW]

Admittedly only looking on my phone but I wouldn’t know which is which unless I was told.

At the extreme, I am sure the RED camera has a marginally better image/latitude, but for 99% of the time for 99% of real world users needs (the latter of which is not RED’s market of course)…

The 2 best things this camera has is the image quality using the RED raw 12 bit and that screen.

[BTM_Pix]

A good video showing real world ice cream.

Sorry, I meant real world usage.

 

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

The 2 best things this camera has is the image quality using the RED raw 12 bit and that screen.

And that mount.

Megadap will be rubbing their hands at the amount of E mount lenses that may well be finding a home on this camera.

Not just from Sony defectors either but from new owners of the ZR who look at the plethora of appropriately sized E mount lenses on the new and used market and will consider the ZR as a de facto E mount camera.

 

[BTM_Pix]

12 hours ago, mercer said:

And Cam Mackey doesn't love it..

This was at the top of my YouTube feed today.

Genuinely thought at first glance it was going to be Mackey’s review of the ZR.

Maybe the world has got so twisted around that Depp is now cosplaying Mackey.

 

[Davide DB]

13 hours ago, Danyyyel said:

The guy problem is that it is written cinema on this. So either you can film a hollywood movie with it, or it is shit. Someone should give him a film camera to see how many functionality their is, and hold and behold perhaps he might see something call grain. I mean I have been using Nikon since the z6, a Nikon files have been extremely robust. I got my Z9 3.5 years ago. At first I didn't even touch the 10 bit h265. Then I just used it just like that for some personal things, and nowadays I only use the RAW format when I want the absolute best. He just look at 400% at the files, he knows nothing about grading etc. 

 

 

I'm not trying to defend GU, in fact.

If you've seen the whole video, he says that the files produced by the camera in Nraw, H.264, and H.265 suck, especially compared to the same files produced by the Z-series cameras. And that the only usable codec is RedCode.

Now, is that true? Who knows. Neither you nor I have the camera in our hands right now, and I don't think it's reliable to just average all the shilltubers out there.

Personally, and I don't need GU to tell me this, I find that putting the word "Cinema" on it is just a marketing gimmick.
But it's certainly not the tool that prevents you from making films. Great films have been made with crappy gear for a century. Films have been made with the GH2 and 5DII.

[ND64]

5 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Was never going to happen. Who would then buy a RED camera going forward if they could basically get it all for a fraction of the price?

People already asking for Z8 sensor in ZR body with air cooling! One thing this camera did, even before shipping, is raising expectations from Nikon. I mean with 8k60p capable stacked sensor, and IPP2 pipeline, you get almost $15k Raptor Xe image quality, with IBIS, and 1 second boot time.

[ND64]

2 minutes ago, Davide DB said:

Personally, and I don't need GU to tell me this, I find that putting the word "Cinema" on it is just a marketing gimmick.

Gerald is pissed that they call it cine camera, then complain why the only dependable codec of the camera is the one used in cine cameras. Tho I understand for a video shooter who never leave his garage room YouTube studio, the quality of h.265 is important and Nikon should address that.

[Davide DB]

8 minutes ago, ND64 said:

Gerald is pissed that they call it cine camera, then complain why the only dependable codec of the camera is the one used in cine cameras. Tho I understand for a video shooter who never leave his garage room YouTube studio, the quality of h.265 is important and Nikon should address that.

 

Why are you guys in such a bad mood this morning?
Is everyone a Roger Deakins now?

I'm not a professional, and a camera for less than 3K would be great for me. I film underwater every week, and sometimes I do small jobs too. Nevertheless, knowing that every time I film I bring home half a terabyte of stuff scares me, because I would also like to have the option to make some compromises.

Right now I film with a GH5MII, and I only use the ALL-I codec when I'm doing something special. Having a camera that only shoots RAW is too limiting for me. So yes I leave my garage sometimes but Nikon should address that. 😄

[ND64]

6 minutes ago, Davide DB said:

Why are you guys in such a bad mood this morning?

Mood? I'm just saying we have never seen a cinematic work done by the Undone, and yet he thinks he is the one who defines what cine camera should be. 

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Megadap will be rubbing their hands at the amount of E mount lenses that may well be finding a home on this camera

Which is exactly how I’d use it with Tamron zoom’s, the: 20-40, 28-75 and 70-180 f2.8’s.

[BTM_Pix]

59 minutes ago, Davide DB said:

Why are you guys in such a bad mood this morning?

It’s the international break.

The world turns to shit when there is no club football.

There is only so much England vs Andorra that people can take.

Everything will be OK again on Saturday.