New Fuji X-S20 (with DCI & UHD 60p plus 6.2K/30P 4:2:2 10-bit internal)

[MrSMW]

10 hours ago, mkabi said:

In my strong opinion, skip the Nikon pair and go straight to Fuji.... BUT choose either XH2 or XH2s and pair either one with the Fuji GFX 100S (Fuji's medium format camera).

Ha! Spot on! It’s the exact option I’d go for if switching today; a pair of either plus a 100s, all available used.

And may even do so over the Winter after my season has ended…

But waiting to see what L Mount does re. S1 line replacement first, mainly re. a replacement for the S1R.

In my eternal quest for the perfect hybrid set up, I have established several non-negotiables…

Has to be 3 bodies; 2 dedicated to video and 1 to stills and if the stills body has a video capability, bonus, but not a deal breaker.

The stills unit needs to be 50-100mp because I am heading back to cropping (in post plus AI software such as DXO) over bigger/longer lenses and steering away from anything that really needs a battery grip for handling.

The stills unit must have a damped shutter. 

I am also moving away from something I wished to explore which was pulling stills from video. I think it would take the joy of photography away from me and make the process, well more ‘a process’.

So a pair of used XH2’s, each with something like the Tamron 17-70 would be direct replacements for my pair of S5ii’s but zero real world gain. More a sideways move…

GFX100s over S1H with battery grip with pair of zooms (weighing over 2kg for the pair) replaced with 2 primes of around 28mm and 85mm and job done.

Just one of several options waiting in the wings but probably the leading contender today.

[MrSMW]

I should add, if Lumix pop out something like a 60mp S2R this Winter, that would seal 🦭 the deal for me and I’d stick with  L Mount.

Zero issues with the S5ii’s as for video, they kind of tick all the boxes. 

I would prefer 6k 50p open gate, but as it does not exist, will soldier on cropping social versions of my work from the 4k.

Having something like an S2R over a GFX also keeps it within the eco system so useful for back up, switching stuff around in a pinch.

But we will see. I am back to primes for my stills work this weekend and then it’s just a case of seeing whether Lumix delivers in the coming months…

[SRV1981]

 

[MrSMW]

Overeats?

[SRV1981]

4 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Overeats?

Over my head?

[sanveer]

13 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

 

Cameras overheating in 2023 is a crime. Perhaps, certifying agencies should rate cameras similarly to (NCAP for) cars for safety and reliability, rating them on camera overheating (just like like dust and water protection ratings).

How possibly expensive can a tiny fan or a thin liquid or hard metal layer be, that camera manufacturers are too stubborn not to enforce it, for heat dissipation.

[MrSMW]

9 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

Over my head?

Ah, the YouTube thumbnail changed as they often do.

With the read play button over the title, it looked like it read ‘overeats’ 😉

[AlexTrinder96]

Has anyone been able to test the X-S20 vs X-H2S for video? CineD have the X-S20 dynamic range as lower than even the XT4/XT3 and shockingly even the XT2. Would love to see their testings. Surely it cannot be that bad?

I believe it shares the same sensor as the XT4 but with a newer processor? I haven't see many X-S20 video yet but none of them seem to jump out at me in terms of dynamic range tbh. Cheers in advance 

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

On 8/18/2023 at 12:11 PM, SRV1981 said:

 

Will do a test with mine here - not the best conditions now (the temperature here dropped to around 23oC), and only have a V30 card (a 200Mbps Sandisk Extreme Pro that until now worked without glitches with 6.2k, but probably will generate more heat).
But will try to record in Long GOP instead of ALL-I (this probably generates even more heat), with the LCD open (since the back was made to get the fan, probably there is some heat spreader there).

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

Well, quick test, very unscientific one, but here we go:

6.2k 30p, Long Gop 10bit 4:2:2 360mbps. Camera on Boost mode, filming a TV screen with a movie playing to give a harder time for the codec (if you test in a static shot, in theory the encoding work could be pretty minimal in a long gop).  Face detect running too, getting faces on the tv screen.

Temperature set on the menus to "High", back LCD in open position.

Extreme Pro V30 200 Mbps card. Room temperature, 24 deg celsius, 70% humidity.

First overheating warning (yellow) appeared around the 25 minutes mark. The red warning appeared very soon after, around 29 minutes. But the camera never shutdown, ran for 45 minutes until the 128gb card was full.

Camera hot to touch, much than usual, but not close to cause a burn. With an infrared thermometer (not a very precise one) marked around 38 degrees on the back, where the fan could attach. The bottom plate was hotter, arounf 42 degrees, but you can hold the camera on the bottom without disconfort. The grip was hot too, around 40 degrees - removed the battery and card right after, battery hot but no so much, card was hotter.

Was expecting worse, since the red warning appeared so soon. Since the battery was a source of heat, probably feeding energy with a PD charger could extend the run times (and probably mandatory if you want continuous takes bigger than this, albeit the battery just dropped one bar).

Will do the same test in a hotter day under the sun (probably some months from now, it's winter here). Guess that yeah , a shutdown is a possibility under hot sun.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

Well, torture tested today - heatwave here in Brazil, 39oC outside, around 30oC inside.

Put it in a small tripod in my room, no ventilation, and under direct sun (in a black camera...). 6.2k, 10-bit 4:2:2, 360 mbps, with a v30 Extreme Peo card (which gets somewhat hot - my v60s are on the way). Static scene this time.

Yellow warning around 15 mins, red on 20 mins, shutdown in 30 mins. Camera very hot, maybe bad to handhold - but when under the sun, i mean it, the tripod legs were very hot too. 

In the weekend I made a 10 mins recording in a music festival, under the sun too (but arguably in better conditions than today's test), with the same settings, no heat warning whatsoever.

For my use, more than enough. Will try the Ulanzi fan now.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

Call me impressed, the little thing works.

Could not reproduce exactly the same conditions - the sun moved and I had to transfer the camera to the window around the 20 mins mark, hence it had a little bit of more air. But was under the sun, became very hot as before.

The Ulanzi fan was used on full speed. If the footage is long, good idea to use it plugged on a power bank / USB charger, with 25 mins the internal battery was around 50% (then I plugged it in). 

The yellow warning appeared on the 25 min mark, and the red around 33. And the camera never shutdown until the 128gb card is full, on the 46 minute mark.

The integrated temperature meter was kinda useless - yellow on the 39oc, red on the 42oC. 

Another bad thing - even with the back film applied, the suction cups do not work very well; pressed the fan a bit to stick from time to time. Needs some "baby caring" in a tripod, and for run and gun it will fall for sure. In the Fujifilms, I would mod it to use the srews that the camera have.

To summarize, it works for tripod use, even a bit better than I expected. But have some caveats.

[ntblowz]

Yeah the suction cup really doesn't work, and it is quite heavy vs my aliexpress fan, I guess that why it doesn't really sucks even with film vs velcro solution from my other fan, the battery life is way shorter (less than hr vs 4-5hrs).

 

I just have to say lucky I didn't pay full price for this ulanzi fan, the aliexpress one have ver 2 which with some camera models you can just snap on instead of velcro which is even better 

[kye]

8 hours ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

Call me impressed, the little thing works.

Could not reproduce exactly the same conditions - the sun moved and I had to transfer the camera to the window around the 20 mins mark, hence it had a little bit of more air. But was under the sun, became very hot as before.

The Ulanzi fan was used on full speed. If the footage is long, good idea to use it plugged on a power bank / USB charger, with 25 mins the internal battery was around 50% (then I plugged it in). 

The yellow warning appeared on the 25 min mark, and the red around 33. And the camera never shutdown until the 128gb card is full, on the 46 minute mark.

The integrated temperature meter was kinda useless - yellow on the 39oc, red on the 42oC. 

Another bad thing - even with the back film applied, the suction cups do not work very well; pressed the fan a bit to stick from time to time. Needs some "baby caring" in a tripod, and for run and gun it will fall for sure. In the Fujifilms, I would mod it to use the srews that the camera have.

To summarize, it works for tripod use, even a bit better than I expected. But have some caveats.

Good to hear it works - thanks for doing a real test, unlike almost all others who think that 10 minute clips in 25C/77F is a test of anything at all.

It's a pretty poor showing that the camera still gets hot though.  I have a BM UltraStudio 3G box that I use for a clean feed from Resolve to my reference monitor, which is a small metal box:

I've recently switched to a configuration that makes it upscale video constantly, and it gets hot.  Hot to the point it disconnects and it almost too hot to touch.  I got a USB fan to blow on it on the lowest speed and the box stays almost completely at room temperature and cool to the touch, except for the spot where it is pressed against the chip inside via heat paste which gets a little warm.

This is how a good heatsink should be - a tiny bit of airflow should make an incredible night-and-day difference.

It sounds like trying to cool the Fuji with a fan is like trying to cool a nuclear reactor by blowing air on the side of the carpark building.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

17 hours ago, kye said:

Good to hear it works - thanks for doing a real test, unlike almost all others who think that 10 minute clips in 25C/77F is a test of anything at all.

It sounds like trying to cool the Fuji with a fan is like trying to cool a nuclear reactor by blowing air on the side of the carpark building.

Lol, kinda is. But the camera was hot to touch only under full sun continuously; in shade, or in the music festival that I was, it got barely warm. For me use (20 min clips maximum), did not need a fan at all - bought it just for the low price and as a preventive measure.

But again - if the back of the camera was metal, probably it would never overheats. Guess that Fuji was worried about someone melting the LCD, but it was just a case to show a message to open the LCD screen when the temperature get above some level.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

18 hours ago, ntblowz said:

Yeah the suction cup really doesn't work, and it is quite heavy vs my aliexpress fan, I guess that why it doesn't really sucks even with film vs velcro solution from my other fan, the battery life is way shorter (less than hr vs 4-5hrs).

 

I just have to say lucky I didn't pay full price for this ulanzi fan, the aliexpress one have ver 2 which with some camera models you can just snap on instead of velcro which is even better 

In fact, I was expecting that the fan would not make ANY difference, hence it is a plus. And since a tiny fan could make this improvement, for sure the cheaper Aliexpress versions would perform the same or better, which is good news.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

Talking about the X-S20 itself - since I was a CDAF m43 user before (my first 2 PDAF cameras were the X-T20 and the X-S10), I could be easily impressed, but I'm liking a lot the camera. Must confess, more than I expected.

Was in a music festival this weekend. First test (and one of the reasons that compactness and discreetion are top priorities for me): festival stated that "professional cameras" are forbidden. Attached the 55-200mm on the camera, facing down the ThinkTank bag, only the back of the camera visible. Security saw the size of the camera, did not even bother to ask to take a look. 🙂

Shooting music festivals is a scenario that I'm used to - but, again, using m43 cameras. Always got good results, once even was published on the official Franz Ferdinand instagram channel. Face detection with m43 usually could not detect the face from distance, but single point usually worked, and with low light and bad stage lighting I usually switch to manual focus, focus on the mic stand, put the focus a touch farther and get good sharp photos.

The X-S20 not only got the faces all the time, but 90% of the time, find the eye of the subject, at 200mm, even with the singer occupying half the frame. With daylight and stage lighting. Never had so many keepers in a concert. And one of the singers and the festival channel already published some of the photos. 🙂

It is another league from the X-S10.

Made two videos, but since I recorded in 6.2k 10bit 4:2:2, will need to work with proxies, and I'm still a beginner in Resolve, will need some spare time. Tested with the internal mics in Auto level, could see that the bass is distorted, was a experiment to see the levels needed, but apart from that the sound was good for internal mics (much better than all my GXs and the FZ1000). AF again was getting the eyes 100% of the time, will see the precision at the footage.

Still have to test it more, but my doubts about having to go to Sony to get good AF were killed. From the tests that I saw with screen recorders with the A7CII, A6700 and some other cameras, I see minimal differences. For me, ths one looks like a keeper.

[Dustin]

On 9/20/2023 at 2:15 PM, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

Talking about the X-S20 itself - since I was a CDAF m43 user before (my first 2 PDAF cameras were the X-T20 and the X-S10), I could be easily impressed, but I'm liking a lot the camera. Must confess, more than I expected.

Was in a music festival this weekend. First test (and one of the reasons that compactness and discreetion are top priorities for me): festival stated that "professional cameras" are forbidden. Attached the 55-200mm on the camera, facing down the ThinkTank bag, only the back of the camera visible. Security saw the size of the camera, did not even bother to ask to take a look. 🙂

Shooting music festivals is a scenario that I'm used to - but, again, using m43 cameras. Always got good results, once even was published on the official Franz Ferdinand instagram channel. Face detection with m43 usually could not detect the face from distance, but single point usually worked, and with low light and bad stage lighting I usually switch to manual focus, focus on the mic stand, put the focus a touch farther and get good sharp photos.

The X-S20 not only got the faces all the time, but 90% of the time, find the eye of the subject, at 200mm, even with the singer occupying half the frame. With daylight and stage lighting. Never had so many keepers in a concert. And one of the singers and the festival channel already published some of the photos. 🙂

It is another league from the X-S10.

Made two videos, but since I recorded in 6.2k 10bit 4:2:2, will need to work with proxies, and I'm still a beginner in Resolve, will need some spare time. Tested with the internal mics in Auto level, could see that the bass is distorted, was a experiment to see the levels needed, but apart from that the sound was good for internal mics (much better than all my GXs and the FZ1000). AF again was getting the eyes 100% of the time, will see the precision at the footage.

Still have to test it more, but my doubts about having to go to Sony to get good AF were killed. From the tests that I saw with screen recorders with the A7CII, A6700 and some other cameras, I see minimal differences. For me, ths one looks like a keeper.

Hey man, I’ll be joining you as an X-S20 user in the next week. Just sold my XT3 and a gimbal to swap for the newest Fuji tech and to gain IBIS. Couple questions for you:

1) How does IBIS when holding camera steady for slow pan or standing still handheld shots work? All the YouTuber reviews of Fuji ibis demonstrate it in a way I would never use- ie walking, running swinging left and right.

2) Have you noticed any issues with Dynamic Range? I saw the CineD video with a $1,200 anamorphic lens. Looked fine to me as have other clips I’ve seen. I think having the same sensor as my XT3 which I loved, and 6k plus 10 but 4:2:2, should be pretty good.

I’m looking forward to testing this camera out for myself. I may make a public YouTube as well because for whatever reason, there aren’t too many reviews on YouTube of this camera yet that show what I want to see and not click bait bull.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

On 10/9/2023 at 11:21 AM, Dustin said:

Hey man, I’ll be joining you as an X-S20 user in the next week. Just sold my XT3 and a gimbal to swap for the newest Fuji tech and to gain IBIS. Couple questions for you:

1) How does IBIS when holding camera steady for slow pan or standing still handheld shots work? All the YouTuber reviews of Fuji ibis demonstrate it in a way I would never use- ie walking, running swinging left and right.

Not a definitive conclusion, but is better than the X-S10. Standing still, with IS Boost on, is very steady - but if you need to pan, have to put the IS Boost to off, since it "battles" a lot with pans.
In regular mode, with pan, looks like that it fights less than the X-S10, albeit not silky smooth as an Olympus. Or as a dedicated gimbal.

 

On 10/9/2023 at 11:21 AM, Dustin said:

2) Have you noticed any issues with Dynamic Range? I saw the CineD video with a $1,200 anamorphic lens. Looked fine to me as have other clips I’ve seen. I think having the same sensor as my XT3 which I loved, and 6k plus 10 but 4:2:2, should be pretty good.

Did not see great differences than the X-S10 - but the previous model did not had 10-bit recording, and never tried F-Log before. As expected, the FLog and Flog2 modes have much better dynamic range, specially in the highlights. But I'm a novice working with log (and suffering to color grade it).

[Dustin]

9 minutes ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

Not a definitive conclusion, but is better than the X-S10. Standing still, with IS Boost on, is very steady - but if you need to pan, have to put the IS Boost to off, since it "battles" a lot with pans.
In regular mode, with pan, looks like that it fights less than the X-S10, albeit not silky smooth as an Olympus. Or as a dedicated gimbal.

 

Did not see great differences than the X-S10 - but the previous model did not had 10-bit recording, and never tried F-Log before. As expected, the FLog and Flog2 modes have much better dynamic range, specially in the highlights. But I'm a novice working with log (and suffering to color grade it).

Ah thank you sir! Not too worried for me about FLOG. Coming from the XT3, I tried it out but the appeal with the Fuji stuff is the film profiles and that Eterna simulation. I had a chance to get a Panasonic at $1,500 however, since I already own the 18-55 2.8-4, and Viltrox 33mm, 13mm 1.4 primes, didn’t make sense for me to go Panasonic since the AF lenses are so expensive.