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"Canon is not happy with third party lens makers" is now officially confirmed


Eric Calabros
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On 9/4/2022 at 8:18 PM, Andrew Reid said:

Only the Komodo is RF, the others have swappable mounts. For instance one of the best mounts for RED is EF, so completely incompatible with RF or mirrorless lenses. That's the Motion Mount with electronic variable ND built in. So what use is RF for RED users who want to use that?

You are far better off with either EF or PL lenses for the vast majority of RED's bodies, especially the proper high-end stuff. Komodo is entry level.

This is not correct as RED V-Raptor has a fixed RF mount and you need adapters for the other mount. The RED V-Raptor XL has a swappable PL mount where you can buy the EF mount.

So from the latest 3 models that RED sells two are native RF.

 

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7 hours ago, Kisaha said:

(The "quote" above is irrelevant).

The Canon vND is terrible and very expensive. I bought the Meike one.

The speed booster got mixed reviews and very expensive. I got the Viltrox one.

These 2 adaptors are the biggest benefit of me adopting RF at the moment.

I will be very reluctant with future upgrades..

I got the Canon VND but changed the filter to breakthrough X4 VND for best VND on the market.

We also got the Canon speedbooster for C70 but once we migrate to all RF lens (24-70 2.8, 28-70 F2, 15-35 f2.8, 70-200 F2.8 etc) it kinda becomes irrevalent.. except just for the EF 35mm F2 IS which we still have pairs well with C70.

We just dont buy third party for best compatibility issue, I have a friend who have Sigma 24-105mm Art but it locks his C70 up from time to time.. once he changed to Canon no more lockup.

 

Next upgrade will be looking at V-Raptors and Komodo combo.. at least our RF lens still works.

 

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6 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

come to think of it these adapter/filters are strictly mechanical things no? So there wouldn't be anything firmware related that would affect them... I hope!

No, both the Kolari and Meike adapters also provide electronic control for AF etc.

A simple handshake ID check between camera and adapter/lens will be able to tell the camera the identity of what it is connected to it and compare that with an approved list at which point the camera can then adopt a policy of "if you're not on the list, you're not coming in" and prevent any operation until you remove it.

Of course, it is not currently active in any of the firmware as people are able to happily use these products but its obviously only an update away should Canon choose to do it.

On the basis that the Canon version does not fare very well at all on every comparative review I've seen then these 3rd party products must be damaging not only sales but reputation too.

The colour shift and IR pollution performance of the Canon version in this review being an example.

 

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After 2 years of Canon VND adapter for EF and using normal screw in VND on RF lenses, I'm not sure that the adapter is more convenient. 

Going from min to zero is a pain as either you remove the filter and put a clear one or swap the adapter, I find unscrewing faster as I can simply put in the pocked the vnd and I'm done. 
The small wheel for me is not as easy as the front filter to do fine adjustments.
The plus that you can use lens hoods.

If I would start all over now, I would probably look into some magnetic system.
As adapter the kippertie revolva seems a better solution but is very expensive and I'm not sure how compatible is with the R5/c...

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4 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

No, both the Kolari and Meike adapters also provide electronic control for AF etc.

A simple handshake ID check between camera and adapter/lens will be able to tell the camera the identity of what it is connected to it and compare that with an approved list at which point the camera can then adopt a policy of "if you're not on the list, you're not coming in" and prevent any operation until you remove it.

 

 

Are you sure that you could not just create a simple pin passthrough adapter as the camera don't need to be aware of the adapter, of course they could check if EF lens is mounted check if OEM adapter is used, and then other adapter manufacturer are screwed. But as the adpaper support fully manual lens not sure they would really do this...

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15 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

Are you sure that you could not just create a simple pin passthrough adapter as the camera don't need to be aware of the adapter, of course they could check if EF lens is mounted check if OEM adapter is used, and then other adapter manufacturer are screwed. But as the adpaper support fully manual lens not sure they would really do this...

This is the same way to get the Sigma MC21 to "work" on Leica by taping over the pins (for similar reasons in terms of blocking by the camera) but it becomes a dumb adapter with no control of AF, Aperture and IS.

So, yes, you could do that with the Meike/Viltrox/Kolari etc but lose all of that stuff in the process which may or may not be an issue depending on what you are mounting on it (just using EF as an intermediate mount etc for older manual lenses) or only use manual focus anyway.

But the best way I can see to have your cake and eat it in terms of keeping all of that, insuring yourself against future firmware blocking and not having the dramatic colour casts at greater intensities is as @ntblowz does it by using the official adapter but swapping out the NDs for the Breakthrough versions.

More expensive in the short term but not as costly as having an adapter that all of a sudden is rendered useless.

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I was probably never ever going to buy a Canon mirrorless anyway. 

But the Canon C70 / R5C / R7 / R10 were doing a good job at maaaaaaaaaybe tempting me to the "dark side". And if Canon had kept up this good work for another couple of generations, maybe I'd take Canon more seriously??

However, this anti-3rdParty news just absolutely crashed any desire for Canon, and any hope they might one day be a viable choice in the future for me. 

I'll keep on supporting Panasonic/Nikon/Blackmagic/Fujifilm instead! 

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On 8/30/2022 at 7:31 AM, MrSMW said:

 

I think Nikon are so far preserving their own native lens lineup also?

This is partially why I am going in that direction (Nikon) as it seems to be the only other mount you can get an adapter for Tamron’s 35-150 for.

I never previously subscribed to the ‘lenses first, bodies second’ line, but have come to the conclusion I do want to build a system around primarily one single ‘do it all’ lens.

I did look to see if there was an opportunity to use this lens with Canon, but it seems not, so it’s Nikon or Sony and Sony don’t have any cameras that fit my needs, but Nikon ticks more boxes anyway so…

Nikon has half a dozen brands which support autofocus on the Nikon Z Mount (and of course many many many more brands which make manual focus lenses for Nikon Z Mount):

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/ci/17912/N/4196380428?filters=fct_a_focus-type_5738%3Aautofocus%2Cfct_brand_name%3Akipon|tamron|ttartisan|viltrox|yongnuo%2Cfct_lens-mount_3442%3Anikon-z-mount 

I think it is just that Nikon Z Mount is the newest of all the mounts. That's why 3rd Parties have been a bit slow-ish to bring out lenses for Nikon Z Mount, they needed time to develop lenses. Plus they were waiting first for Nikon to gain market share traction with the Z Mount before bringing out products for it themselves. 

Am sure over the next few years we'll only see many more 3rd Party AF Lenses for Z Mount. 

 

Damn, a 32mm f.28 compact full frame lenses for under US$150 for Z Mount: 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1719556-REG/ttartisan_af3228b_z_af32mm_f_2_8_full_frame.html 

Niiiice! I look forward to what lenses are coming next for Nikon Z Mount. 

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1 hour ago, gt3rs said:

After 2 years of Canon VND adapter for EF and using normal screw in VND on RF lenses, I'm not sure that the adapter is more convenient. 

Going from min to zero is a pain as either you remove the filter and put a clear one or swap the adapter, I find unscrewing faster as I can simply put in the pocked the vnd and I'm done. 
The small wheel for me is not as easy as the front filter to do fine adjustments.
The plus that you can use lens hoods.

If I would start all over now, I would probably look into some magnetic system.
As adapter the kippertie revolva seems a better solution but is very expensive and I'm not sure how compatible is with the R5/c...

If you're going to use the VND, how often do you really need to take it on and off? 

The kippertie is a no-brainer if using s35 lenses for Komodo. I found the Canon VND to be slightly more neutral than the breakthrough, which was disappointing. I sold mine. Some on the reduser FB group found similar results. Maybe there's some sample variation? 

Agreed on magnetic lenses...I've been waiting for Breakthrough to release their new magnetic lenses but it seems they're busy with the other releases. Nice to see them get involved with cinema solutions though.

Anyways, matte boxes are becoming increasingly compact (bright tangerine, tilt, smallrig) - they're a pretty good interim solution if you're willing to spend on filters. 

But yeah, filters are pretty annoying. The next Canon cinema camera w/ full-frame, DGO, and internal ND should be compelling.

 

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On 9/1/2022 at 5:30 AM, MrSMW said:

Apparently, Tamron have announced their first Nikon Z lens, some variable aperture zoom, but it’s a start.

This is a Tamron lens, but with a Nikon badge:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1703932-REG/nikon_nikkor_z_28_75mm_f_2_8.html 

With a sub $1K pricetag, then it is priced almost as cheaply as the Tamron too! Even though it has the Nikon namebrand on it. 

As the Tamron version is only a hundred bucks less:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1658157-REG/tamron_a063_28_75mm_f_2_8_di_iii.html

I feel like a premium of only ten percent is a fair price to pay for Nikon branded lens I can have full 100% confidence it will get supported well into in the future with all the Nikon bodies. 

Which isn't something you can't say always when buying third party lenses to pair with a random other camera body from another brand. 

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On 9/2/2022 at 6:36 AM, Avenger 2.0 said:

Makes me wonder what Blackmagic will do with their next cameras. Guess a RF mount is out of the question now and an EF mount is a dead end in the long run. Would personally love to see a 6k with MFT mount.

Blackmagic should have done this from Day 1! As MFT supports Super 35mm lenses. 

The Pocket 6K Pro with a MFT Mount would be dreamy. 

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  • 1 month later...
On 9/7/2022 at 5:30 AM, ntblowz said:

I got the Canon VND but changed the filter to breakthrough X4 VND for best VND on the market.

Intended to follow your lead and get the X4 VND as well but they're never in stock, so I went with the Kolari VND filter instead which has been getting some great reviews too, and Kolari states it is compatible with the Canon drop-in adapter. It's also around $100 USD cheaper than the X4 if I'm not mistaken.

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14 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Meanwhile, far from handing out cease and desist notices, Nikon are absolutely thrilled with a 3rd party releasing lenses for their system.

1016696762_ScreenShot2023-02-22at21_43_15.png.bb80547aa9b66e6e1462cc52ef0613ba.png

Hopefully this might see Canon reverse their policy?

Nah, me neither.

 

Apparently Nikon is deciding which lenses 3 parties can license or not, basically only non competing lenses. Not a coincidence that these are ASP-C lenses. Not really open but better than Canon.

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