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Nikon will announce Z6s/Z7s updates, with dual card slots and 4K 60fps


IronFilm

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1 hour ago, bjohn said:

Perhaps it doesn't suck as much as you think: https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82199

I am not a big fan of Cinema 5d's testings

The perceived dynamic range is better as there is more NR in prores. You are losing highlight retention with prores. Just add noise reduction in post and you'll get the same thing with better highlights. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Geoff CB said:

Unfortunately that is not possible unless you specifically design the sensor for it like the 12K

I meant that lineskipping or pixel binning is fine, I just want the option 

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In my opinion needs a lot more than what is rumoured. What about internal 10bit? Internal N-LOG? Is the 4K/60p APS-C only or full frame? Dual card slots - Dual XQD or one SD and on

https://nikonrumors.com/2020/07/06/breaking-new-nikon-z6s-and-nikon-z7s-mirrorless-cameras-expected-later-this-year.aspx/ When even part of the Canikon duolopy has a cheap FF camera (the Nik

Have you actually used prores raw in Z6? It has far less issues than presented by some youtubers. And I find AF on native lenses very good in video mode. In fact I was shooting on 2 cameras, Canon C20

9 hours ago, Django said:

I know all that but cmon A72 came out in 2015, EOS RP in 2018... you gotta laugh at Nikon’s horrendous release timing.. time and time again. 

Doesn't really matter when they came out, that's the price segment that Nikon is aiming at. (plus remember that the release RRP will only last a handful of months, the street price will drop lower at some point in the near future)

Sony has a strategy of keeping their older cameras around to sell at low low prices to grab the low end market share, as they're doing with the old a7mk2. (and heck, Canon does the same too! Just look at how many older Canon Rebel models are still being sold)

There is nothing at all wrong with Nikon coming out with a band new fresh model to target the same low end market share. In fact this is a GOOD THING they're doing it with newly designed model, I'd rather have a 2020 design than a 2015 design. 

Like @David Bowgett said:
 

10 hours ago, David Bowgett said:

...on a low-end camera that's intended as a competitor for the A7ii (no 4K at all, worse battery life, weaker IBIS implementation) and the EOS RP (awful, barely usable 4K with a comparable crop, even worse battery life, no IBIS at all). 


When you look at the Nikon Z5's competition, I feel like the Z5 has the potential to be a smash hit for Nikon. As quite simply there is no better FF mirrorless camera on the market today that you can buy new with a RRP of sub $1.5K

 

8 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

The thing is if Nikon wants to make an impact they have to BEAT the specs of their competition, matching them is not enough to gain back market share. 


Read again what David said, Nikon didn't "match specs" here!

Nikon crushed their competition. (in this particular market segment)
 

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Sorry but I don’t share your enthusiasm.

Competing on the bottom segment against a 5 year old crap camera like the A72 is certainly not an achievement.

The EOS RP can currently be purchased on blowout price  for under $800. Now that’s a steal in that particular segment.

At $1400 the Z5 isn’t a cheap camera. For $400 more you can get an A73 with no crop 4K and log.

I just don’t see the Z5 making an impact in 2020 with those specs and price point.

Furthermore, Nikon who is already severely lagging behind its competition in sales really needs more innovative products than a cut down Z6 at entry level and a minor updated Z6S on the high end If they wanna remain relevant and afloat.

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1 hour ago, Django said:

Sorry but I don’t share your enthusiasm.

You may have no enthusiasm for the low end of the FF market, but that's wear most of the FF sales happen!

It is wise for Nikon to get themselves a slice of that pie, and even grow the market. 
 

1 hour ago, Django said:

Competing on the bottom segment against a 5 year old crap camera like the A72 is certainly not an achievement.


We applaud the likes of Blackmagic or Z Cam when they bring us cheap goods (even with all their flaws) at ever low prices, why can't we show the same respect to Nikon when they launch the best ever sub $1.5K mirrorless FF camera? 

Am glad to see Nikon offering us bargain choices! May they deliver many more new products like this. 

What's next, a Nikon Z40 that gives us 4K DCI 60fps with IBIS for the same price as an a6100/M50?? So what if it is still 8bit, so what if it still has a 30 minute record limit, I'd still be very happy to see such a "Nikon Z40" camera! Yes, the camera snobs will turn up their noses at it because it isn't 8K raw, but this "Nikon Z40" would sell like hotcakes. 

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It isn’t about being a gear snob but rather pushing things forward rather than backwards.

1.7x crop in 2020 is a joke and hence you can’t even consider that a real FF-category camera. 
 

It’s a FF stills, worse than APS-C vidéo hybrid.

I’m all for pushing the price down but not at the expense of crippling features.

Again the Z5 at $1500 naked, $1800-$2100 with the crappy zoom kits isn’t by any means a bargain in my book.

This camera is DOA as far as I’m concerned and there is nothing snobbish about that as I consider cheaper cameras to be of better value.

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I don't see the Z5 as a bargain - far from it. 1.7 crop basically means 4K is essentially unusable. Better options exist, an A73 with all the advantages it has with cheaper lenses (both Sony and 3rd party) could work out similar price to a Z5 and expensive Nikkor glass.

Or an RP at $400 less is pretty similar specs wise. At $1400 the Z5 looks expensive and uncompetitive.

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48 minutes ago, Django said:

1.7x crop in 2020 is a joke and hence you can’t even consider that a real FF-category camera. 

 

It’s a FF stills, worse than APS-C vidéo hybrid.

Sorry for the slight off topic but it's  funny you didn't describe the canon RP (1.6 crop) in such disparaging terms when you were bigging it up against the Fuji XT3 the other day.

I think the z50 has its place although I agree that it is going to have a hard time against its more established mirrorless competitors until the price goes down even if it does seem a better spec'd camera  

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1 hour ago, ade towell said:

Sorry for the slight off topic but it's  funny you didn't describe the canon RP (1.6 crop) in such disparaging terms when you were bigging it up against the Fuji XT3 the other day.

Only thing funny is you chasing me around this site with the failed intent of proving me wrong at every corner.

I recommended the RP the other day to an amateur on a tight budget that missed his Canon 5D2.

Furthermore, the RP came out in 2018, is below the magic 1 grand price and is fully compatible with EF-S lenses in which it shares the same crop factor.

It's in my opinion a better value than the $1500-$2100 Z5 kit. At that price range a Z6/A73 would seem to be better suited for hybrid shooting.

The XT3 as great of a camera as it is, isn't FF anything, it belongs in a separate category IMO.

Regardless, my main point was that Nikon needs to seriously up its ante and innovate and not go backwards if it wants to be taken seriously in what is already a battle of the titans in between Canon & Sony.

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3 hours ago, Django said:

It isn’t about being a gear snob but rather pushing things forward rather than backwards.

There is nothing "backwards" about bringing out the best sub one & a half grand FF mirrorless camera. I'm betting the Nikon Z5 has better IBIS, better 4K, better autofocus, better ergonomics/design, etc than any other FF mirrorless in this price bracket. 

And Nikon does pretty regular deals once the camera has been out on the market for a handful of months, we'll see a hundred or two knocks off its price, or a special where the Nikon F to Z Mount adapter gets thrown in for free to make it even more of a stunning deal than it already is. 

We all get super excited when BMD or Z Cam launches a camera which brings the best to a new lower price bracket, Nikon deserves the same excitement and praise for what they've just accomplished with the Nikon Z5. 

And it is rubbish to call it hit with the "cripple hammer", it is nowhere near bashed with the cripple hammer as the Canon RP is, neither is it as outdated as the Sony a7mk2 is (which Sony simply keeps around so it can still target the price market underneath the a7mk3, while Nikon created a entirely brand new model for it). The Nikon Z5 is a cutting edge & fresh new FF camera which merely has been brushed over with a gentle tickle of the "cripple feather duster" (and given that it is 30% cheaper than the Z6's launch RRP then that's pretty generous by Nikon).

  

1 hour ago, ade towell said:

Sorry for the slight off topic but it's  funny you didn't describe the canon RP (1.6 crop) in such disparaging terms when you were bigging it up against the Fuji XT3 the other day.

Exactly. If we fairly compare the Nikon Z5 against its FF competitors in the sub grand and half category, then the Nikon Z5 only comes out looking even better from the comparison!

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44 minutes ago, Django said:

Only thing funny is you chasing me around this site with the failed intent of proving me wrong at every corner.

Sorry if you get that impression, I'm not stalking you just found your comment a little ironic after the discussion the other day. Anyway hopefully no harm done, I come in peace, back to the Z50...

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^ we're not talking about the Z50 but the newly announced Z5.

@IronFilm Let's agree to disagree. I see nothing impressive or exciting about the Z5. It's a cut down Z6 hit indeed with the cripple hammer for video.

FWIW, I have absolutely zero interest in the RP either. Never have, never will. I just think it's a better deal at the current $800 price. I recommended it to a dude that missed his 5D2. Nothing ironic about that. 

Personally, I hope Nikon don't screw up the Z6S but from the moniker and the rumors it sounds like a minor incremental update to Z6, which is kind of late to the game in comparison to what Canon & Sony are releasing. 

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52 minutes ago, Django said:

it sounds like a minor incremental update to Z6, which is kind of late to the game in comparison to what Canon & Sony are releasing.

Once again, Nikon is not getting the credit they deserve (but hey, what is new? This has been going on for years. Same happened with the D90/D5200/D750/D500/etc etc etc).

You call the Nikon Z6 "late to the game", yet here we are nearly years after the Z6 was announced, and the Z6 still remains as a strongly competitive option in the FF marketplace. The Nikon Z6 is after all the only sub $3K FF camera with 4K raw!

Plus the Nikon Z6 still has better AF (looking at you Panasonic / Z Cam / Sigma / etc), better ergonomics (vs Sony / Z Cam / Sigma / etc), better colors (than Sony), better lens range than almost all (once you factor in the FTZ), better IBIS (than Sony / Z Cam / Sigma ) and more.... than some of the Z6's FF competitor. 

Am not FF obsessed myself (thus I'm more likely to choose a Panasonic G9 instead), but if I was to buy a FF mirrorless right now today then the Nikon Z6 is right at the top of my list, with the Panasonic S1 in a competitive second place (and the Z5 in 3rd place). 

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Again I respectfully disagree. Z6 isn’t bad but you’re making it to be a bit more than what it is. 
 

Z6 can’t shoot RAW. You need to send the camera in for a paid upgrade and then it unlocks ProRes RAW externally. You’ll still need to buy and attach an Atomos recorder. 
 

Not a very elegant, practical or cheap solution.

The inclusion of internal Log recording would be much more useful on a MILC.

Also your claim that “ Nikon Z6 is after all the only sub $3K FF camera with 4K raw!“ is false. Sigma FP does FF internal RAW DNG recording for $2K.

 

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On 7/23/2020 at 12:32 PM, Django said:

It isn’t about being a gear snob but rather pushing things forward rather than backwards.

1.7x crop in 2020 is a joke and hence you can’t even consider that a real FF-category camera. 
 

It’s a FF stills, worse than APS-C vidéo hybrid.

I’m all for pushing the price down but not at the expense of crippling features.

Again the Z5 at $1500 naked, $1800-$2100 with the crappy zoom kits isn’t by any means a bargain in my book.

This camera is DOA as far as I’m concerned and there is nothing snobbish about that as I consider cheaper cameras to be of better value.

LOL people always look at their needs as something sacred, just to be polite. That Z5 is lower cost than some APSC cameras, rendering the 1.7 crop about same size as APSC sensor size in 4k. Nikon did not go back, they are giving people a full featured FF camera for the price of  APSC ones. Its a primarily FF great photo camera with 4k apsc video for about same price as APSC cameras. A photographer that does some video, it is much better than those apsc cameras,

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On 7/23/2020 at 10:23 AM, Django said:

Competing on the bottom segment against a 5 year old crap camera like the A72 is certainly not an achievement.

The EOS RP can currently be purchased on blowout price  for under $800. Now that’s a steal in that particular segment.

At $1400 the Z5 isn’t a cheap camera. For $400 more you can get an A73 with no crop 4K and log.

Furthermore, Nikon who is already severely lagging behind its competition in sales really needs more innovative products than a cut down Z6 at entry level and a minor updated Z6S on the high end If they wanna remain relevant and afloat.

What a load of crap, as said before this camera won't stay at 1400, it is at 1300 (body only) now on Amazon, price with different bundle has been between 1250 to 1300, with heavy discount on lens ftz adapter, cards etc. And by the way you can also have for 400 more the Z6 with actual 10bit to raw video. This thing is a baby Z6 with same viewfinder that trounce all the Sony camera until the latest A7s3, Beter IBIS, magnesium  body (go and watch how good the construction of the Nikon Z cameras) and I am not comparing it to a 2016 Sony but to the current A73, which the Z5 beats handily. You look like those people that compare cameras on spec sheets. For now their is zero competition to the Z5 in what is a 1300 and by Christmas 1200 to 1250 FF camera.

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On 7/22/2020 at 3:58 PM, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

Z6, yeah, probably. If Nikon enable 4k60 in the Z6s, probably not.

The case is that I don't think that Z6 and Z7 sells very well - z5, even canibalizing the Z6, could finally bring more people to Z mount.

But for stills, yeah, the z5 is VERY compelling.

Last year Nikon shipped 280 000 FF camera with only the Z6 and Z7 which are very solid numbers. More so that these two models had critical flaws for a big chunk of the Nikon buyers which is dual card slots. This is why all the new models are coming with dual card slot. There was push from many photographers (many event, wedding ones) to only move now to ML because of the dual card slot z5. This was before the rumors of the z62, z72.

 

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16 hours ago, Danyyyel said:

LOL people always look at their needs as something sacred, just to be polite. That Z5 is lower cost than some APSC cameras, rendering the 1.7 crop about same size as APSC sensor size in 4k. Nikon did not go back, they are giving people a full featured FF camera for the price of  APSC ones. Its a primarily FF great photo camera with 4k apsc video for about same price as APSC cameras. A photographer that does some video, it is much better than those apsc cameras,

Good points! 

Treat the Nikon Z5 as a FF stills camera, but also....  a S35 filming camera. 
 

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