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Sony A7S III / rumours


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7 hours ago, Dave Maze said:

go ahead... tell me how stupid i look in this thumbnail. 

 

Hey Dave, so that today and was curious if you could redo the test recording RAW to the Ninja V.  Was really curious if the magenta still shows up in 16bit RAW or if that is artifacts from the internal codecs (they are "S" level after all).

But nevermind now, just got my email from B&H this morning that mine shipped this morning and will be in hand Friday, so I will check myself, already have version 10.54 firmware loaded on my Ninja V ready to go..

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You could literally post a frame from R5 or Arri Alexa, say it's a Sony A7siii frame and someone would say the color isnt that good and that something is wrong with the skin tones.

These recent camera releases have resulted in a significant amount of velocity  and trolling right across the web.  Every camera is good these days. Every single one. Nor is a single one of them

Some tests and a review from Brandon Li. Chris  

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Got my email from B&H this morning and saw FedEx pick it up before lunch, I will have my A7S Mark III Friday 🙂   (of course, Friday is already taken with kids stuff, as is a good bit of this weekend, but I should be able to do something Friday and Sat just by cutting out sleep, ha; that camera can shoot in the dark anyway right, lol)...

Also, have version 10.54 firmware locked and loaded on my Ninja V.  ready to go.  I'm most interested to see the 16bit RAW linear to 12bit ProRes RAW results compared to the best internal codec.  I'm REALLY hoping that magenta cast is gone in the RAW.  I am terrible at removing magenta without affecting skin tones, so I usually can't touch it much.  Also curious to see if the SSD's I've got will handle the sustained write speed.  From my calculations it will, but we shall see.

Can't wait to see how that reduced rolling shutter looks on my motion controllers (I have Edelkrone's JibONE, SliderONE, Dual HeadONE, and SliderPLUS v5 Long).  

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Rolling shutter of the A7Siii is impressively low. Image on the S5 is free of artefacts and digital oddities. I would say it is the better image. As far as lens choices go, some people do shoot with manual lenses. A7Siii would have been tempting if with the image quality of a S5, which by the way has a rolling shutter of 10ms in S35 mode. The long gop codec, if the same as in the S1, is much slimmer than it is on the A7Siii and is performing impressively well. AF is much better on the A7Siii, of course. A7siii with 4k up to 120p full frame plus astonishing AF is indeed something people will take advantage of and will enjoy. I think it's super cool, that we have this crazy camera tech and that we are relaxed about it and wish eachother enjoyment with their cams. Very well said @Trek of Joy!

3 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

Hey use whatever works for you, if its the S5 that's great. The lenses and AF don't work for me, everyone's needs are different. Enjoy your camera.

Cheers

Chris

 

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2 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Rolling shutter of the A7Siii is impressively low. Image on the S5 is free of artefacts and digital oddities. I would say it is the better image. As far as lens choices go, some people do shoot with manual lenses. A7Siii would have been tempting if with the image quality of a S5, which by the way has a rolling shutter of 10ms in S35 mode. The long gop codec, if the same as in the S1, is much slimmer than it is on the A7Siii and is performing impressively well. AF is much better on the A7Siii, of course. A7siii with 4k up to 120p full frame plus astonishing AF is indeed something people will take advantage of and will enjoy. I think it's super cool, that we have this crazy camera tech and that we are relaxed about it and wish eachother enjoyment with their cams. Very well said @Trek of Joy!

 

There are really no bad options among all the 10-bit FF hybrids, they all have warts, but they all are capable of producing an amazing image. Sometimes we get hung up on bickering over aspects that are dealbreakers for me but not an issue for you. I don’t have the time while I work or the eyesight for manual focus, so for me I need good AF and a few key primes. And I have no interest in a c300 size camera. Obviously others don’t have the same problem. But right now only Sony, Canon and Nikon cover the bases and despite a brief flirtation with the RF mount I’m sticking with Sony. My a7s3 is on the way, it’ll be my first camera that shoots decent 120fps and 10-bit after years of Sony’s 8-bit codec. Good times. 

cheers

chris

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1 hour ago, Trek of Joy said:

There are really no bad options among all the 10-bit FF hybrids, they all have warts, but they all are capable of producing an amazing image. Sometimes we get hung up on bickering over aspects that are dealbreakers for me but not an issue for you. I don’t have the time while I work or the eyesight for manual focus, so for me I need good AF and a few key primes. And I have no interest in a c300 size camera. Obviously others don’t have the same problem. But right now only Sony, Canon and Nikon cover the bases and despite a brief flirtation with the RF mount I’m sticking with Sony. My a7s3 is on the way, it’ll be my first camera that shoots decent 120fps and 10-bit after years of Sony’s 8-bit codec. Good times. 

cheers

chris

congrats, same here.  I feel like I've "done the time" with past Sony 8bit color and long gop codecs.  REALLY looking forward to some colors I can push around a little and finally an Intra based codec (even if the "S" variation, I'll take it) as well as seeing 16bit RAW from a Sony.  I really won't need 16bit RAW for the gigs that pay the bills, but for my passion projects (solo wilderness adventures and a couple of Doc's I've written the scripts for), could most definitely take advantage of it. 

We'll see though. 

It is a very great time for photographers and filmmakers, as far as tools available.  Maybe now, people will focus more on "time behind the lens" and improving their skills versus GAS.  I for one really appreciated Sony's A9 and AF/Exposure speed when shooting sports.  In that example, I went from spending a good portion of my brain on exposure settings and nailing focus.  Versus with the A9 and 100-400GM, being able to concentrate most of my attention to tracking and composition.  So these tools can be a good thing, but many times people are putting too much emphasis on the gear over art and creativity.  But even my wife will tell you that I get GAS from time to time, lol

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2 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

There are really no bad options among all the 10-bit FF hybrids, they all have warts, but they all are capable of producing an amazing image. Sometimes we get hung up on bickering over aspects that are dealbreakers for me but not an issue for you. I don’t have the time while I work or the eyesight for manual focus, so for me I need good AF and a few key primes. And I have no interest in a c300 size camera. Obviously others don’t have the same problem. But right now only Sony, Canon and Nikon cover the bases and despite a brief flirtation with the RF mount I’m sticking with Sony. My a7s3 is on the way, it’ll be my first camera that shoots decent 120fps and 10-bit after years of Sony’s 8-bit codec. Good times. 

cheers

chris

Also I feel the majority of people are effectively 'married' to whichever brand they choose. They simply dont have the money, time or inclination to switch to another brand. I am a Sony user with a bunch of Sony compatible lenses, flashes and other equipment so really I only get to choose between Sony cameras. No big deal of course although it has been a little frustrating to see Sony fall behind in the video specs - particularly the move to 10 bit. Still they seemed to have made really good choices (for me) with the A7siii and I cant wait to get my hands on the camera....

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Well, I got her earlier today, but it was senior night for my oldest and a big high school football game to attend to.

I will share a photo of my Ninja, receiving a 16bit RAW 4.2K output to it 🙂

One VERY odd thing though is, I was testing 4 channel audio through the Sony XLR-K3M plugged into the hotshoe on the A7SIII.  And it did 4 channel internally just fine, but restricted output over the HDMI down to only 2 channels?  Not sure what is going on there, the Ninja V is capable of like 10 audio channels.

More to come soon 🙂

 

SonyA7SIII_RAW_Output.jpg

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One thing that I am still trying to catch my breath on, is that it can only get about 48 minutes of 12bit ProRes RAW out of a freshly formatted 1TB SSD.  Get your wallets out, if you are looking to do mostly RAW.  I think it may be showing the amount of record time based on 60fps, because the calculations I was seeing put a 1TB 4K/24p recording at around 100 minutes for ProRes RAW and 70 minutes for ProRes RAW HQ.  I will know more once I test..

BTW, I confirmed that the Western Digital Blue SSD 1TB drives, can handle the RAW output from the Sony A7SIII.  And those are only $104 with a decent warranty.  I use only the WD Blue drives on my NAS and my Drobo 5C, so was hoping these would handle the RAW sustained write speeds.  We'll see, I will do more testing, like filling up the drive with a frame that has moving objects in it and see if it starts having problems towards the end of the space.  I mention this drive, because Atomos is terrible at adding new drives and such to their supported drives page.

SonyA7SIII_RAW_SSD_Usage.jpg

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It's the little things sometimes.  Comparing the Sony A7SIII's new camera strap to the strap that came with my A9, they have gone to a leather material and full embroidery of the orange stripe and Sony logo.  Very nice touch, this cell phone pic doesn't do it justice.  But basically the A9 strap was just a print on some kind of soft rubberish material.

SonyA7SIII_Strap_Quality.jpg

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I know some people were interested in the reported in camera Highlights and Shadows adjustment in the Standard Creative Look and aren't plan on using SLog-3 or RAW.  For those, you will be pleasantly surprised at the adjustments you can make in camera (and these make a lot more sense than some of the concepts covered in Picture Profiles).  I still recommend trying SLog-3 with this camera. 

Here are the Standard Creative Look settings and the amount of adjustments you can do now.  Defaults are 0 on all of them except Sharpness defaults to 4 and Clarity to 1.

  1. Contrast -9 to +9
  2. Highlights -9 to +9
  3. Shadows -9 to +9
  4. Fade from 0 to +9
  5. Saturation from -9 to +9
  6. Sharpness from 0 to +9  (default is 4)
  7. Clarity from 0 to +9   (default is 1)

SonyA7SIII_Standard_Creative_Look.jpg

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I've been using Timecode lately and have gone with the Atomos Atomx Sync on my Ninja V's.  For multi camera that don't have a Ninja V, I use the Atomos UltraSync ONE (then unfortunately have to do audio based timecode on those camera's).  But at least on my main camera's the Sync device is absolutely seamless and your timecode is embedded in your media file as timecode and not audio.  

Was a relief to see that it still works on the A7SIII and the timecode ends up the my NLE 🙂  If you haven't played with wireless TimeCode networks, you should, the technology has gotten a lot better.  One warning though, if you buy into the Atomos solution (which is really the old TCS company that they bought), you pretty much will need to go mostly Atomos.  For me that was fine, as I was building up my timecode solution, but if you already have a bunch invested, you might want to look into interoperability.  But that $149 price tag is really hard to beat on the Sync

(a little known secret is that the Sync device also has a small capacitor/battery in it, that allows you to swap batteries WHILE recording)

SonyA7SIII_Sync_TimeCode.jpg

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I was pleasantly surprised to see that the A7SIII does PD charging faster than it can use the battery.  Which is why I went with the FXLION NANO TWO V Mount.  As you can see in the output of the NANO TWO, it's pushing 9.3volts and a couple of amps out to the A7S3, it too supports PD charging in and out.

I WAS thinking about putting a dummy Z100 battery in my A7SIII to run off my V Mount, but.... now, I'm leaning towards running it off of USB-C PD.  Between this solution and the previous post with the Atomos Sync Time Code device that allows you to swap batteries while recording; this PD solution between the NANO TWO and the A7SIII would also allow the same since the camera actually would be running on the Z100 battery.  I could be in the middle of recording to both memory cards and outputting RAW, yet swap my V Mount battery with no disruptions to video or audio (the XLR-K3M also runs off the A7SIII through the MI port).  

Of course depending on how much space you have memory wise, you will now run out of space before battery.  It's just comforting to know if you starting recording when lots of space on your sd/ssd, but low on your V Mount, you could swap while recording (mostly useful for events, weddings, interviews, etc).  Obviously movie production or any filming involving shot lists, you could manage a swap of the battery around takes.

SonyA7SIII_PD_Power.jpg

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Here's the XLR-K3M running 4 channels into the A7SIII.  This way you inject 24bit/48khz digital signals straight into the media file and have dials and switches of control.  In the A7SIII screen shot you can see the 4 channels levels on the bottom left with a peak marker.  Once the XLR-K3M is plugged in, you can no longer control levels in the camera, it is all controlled on the outside dials of the XLR-K3M.

My typical setup and what I used in this example is a boomed MKH-416 on Channel 1, the XLR mic that came with the XLR-K3M as the on-camera mic (or could be a second boomed mic) as Channel 2, and 2 RODE Wireless Go setups using a splitter that runs one of the lav setups as the left channel (Channel 3) and the other as the right channel (Channel 4).

I verified that I can take the MP4 from the A7SIII with these 4 audio channels into Premiere and see each of the 4 channels and can control each one separately.  For me this is HUGE, because you are basically looking at the FX9 I could not afford (or justify this year) and I needed 4 channels of audio preferably not external, for doing in studio or on location interviews. 

SonyA7SIII_XLR-K3M.jpg

SonyA7SIII_4Channels.jpg

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Some more tidbits I checked out tonight, before I head to bed..

  1. ANY output over HDMI restricts you to only 2 audio channels (for those using the XLR-K3M 4 channel, it does do 4 internally, but you are currently restricted to choosing 2 of the 4 to go out HDMI for RAW or regular)
  2.  Those Sony G memory cards (UHS-II SD) that Sony sold before they came out with the TOUGH series, do NOT register as V90 cards to the Sony A7SIII unfortunately   Even though they have the same performance of 300MB/s read and 299MB/s write, they apparently can't sustain V90 speeds or something.  This REALLY sucks for me because I had invested several hundred dollars in those cards.  I only have 4 of the new TOUGH G cards and 2 of the TOUGH M cards, so will keep bugging PRO support to figure something out there (either Sony needs to support those very expensive cards or swap them for TOUGH G cards).
  3. The LANC option and record option in the Ninja V does not seem to be triggered by the Sony A7SIII.  This is a feature I use all the time on my Ninja V.  When I hit record on my other Alpha camera, it also triggers the recording on the Ninja V at the same time.  Atomos has been having problems with this as they were releasing new versions of their firmware, it would get fixed then broke again.
  4. There's a pretty cool audio monitoring feature that actually helps you monitor 4 channels (see the attached photo).  The caveat is to do 4 channels, it combines channels 1 and 3, and 2 and 4. but it does work I was able to record and monitor 4 channels.  All the controls of the levels were done on the XLR-K3M
  5. The only way to record proxy's at the same time you are recording to both memory slots and outputting over the HDMI, is with the high priced Express cards.  
  6. HOLY CRAP did my Ninja V get hot when recording that RAW output.  It has a really good exhaust fan and heat sync (you will hear the fan in your recording if your mic is not at least 3 or more feet away).  It literally blows hot air out like a tiny space heater.  The A7SIII was very hot to the touch as well.  I have an IR temp gun, once I calibrate it and make sure it is accurate, I will take some measurements of the two.

Good  night, will work on some footage tomorrow (or today I guess, lol).

SonyA7SIII_Audio_Monitoring.jpg

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7 hours ago, Hangs4Fun said:

Here's the XLR-K3M running 4 channels into the A7SIII.  This way you inject 24bit/48khz digital signals straight into the media file and have dials and switches of control.  In the A7SIII screen shot you can see the 4 channels levels on the bottom left with a peak marker.  Once the XLR-K3M is plugged in, you can no longer control levels in the camera, it is all controlled on the outside dials of the XLR-K3M.

My typical setup and what I used in this example is a boomed MKH-416 on Channel 1, the XLR mic that came with the XLR-K3M as the on-camera mic (or could be a second boomed mic) as Channel 2, and 2 RODE Wireless Go setups using a splitter that runs one of the lav setups as the left channel (Channel 3) and the other as the right channel (Channel 4).

I verified that I can take the MP4 from the A7SIII with these 4 audio channels into Premiere and see each of the 4 channels and can control each one separately.  For me this is HUGE, because you are basically looking at the FX9 I could not afford (or justify this year) and I needed 4 channels of audio preferably not external, for doing in studio or on location interviews. 

 

 

Thank you very much, this is the type of info that I'm looking for when purchasing a camera for work. 

Any output delay on the HDMI to the Ninja? (My Nikon Z6 and Panasonic S1 has this bad)

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@Hangs4Fun so many posts full of great info! Been debating between the K3M or the older one with the cable as I don’t need 4 channels. Some are repoing that the K3M’s cord doesn’t seat properly with a small rig cage and top handle. That’s going to be my usual setup as I like to put the Ninja on the end of my top handle. Hmmm...

chris

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1 hour ago, Trek of Joy said:

@Hangs4Fun so many posts full of great info! Been debating between the K3M or the older one with the cable as I don’t need 4 channels. Some are repoing that the K3M’s cord doesn’t seat properly with a small rig cage and top handle. That’s going to be my usual setup as I like to put the Ninja on the end of my top handle. Hmmm...

chris

That is correct because the handle is right in front of the MI

But seriously, here's the thing, when the heck would you ever have your handle on (run and gun) AND be setup for 4 channels of audio?  One of those silly arguments from people not involved in the actual use case.  When I'm in interview mode, my handle is off, and I put it on when  I shoot B Roll or run and gun.  Shouldering or operating the camera from behind you are more likely going to be using handles from the sides of the cage or proper extended hands in the cases where you might be in that setup and still need 4 channels of audio.

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