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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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57 minutes ago, Damphousse said:

I have a BMPCC and besides crappy AF literally none of that affected my shooting.  Wifi?!  Really?!  Alfred Hitchcock is rolling over in his grave.  A film student saying they can't make a film because... ya know... no wifi!

Full Davinci Resolve and internal raw DCI 4k for $1,300... and this is the complaint list?!

I've never seen a Panasonic GH camera at any photo retailer in the cities I've lived in.  I've posted about this numerous times.  Most people aren't even aware of the Panasonic GH series.  You go into a retailer it is all Canon and Nikon with a bit of Sony tossed in there.  Some random Panny stuff shows up but the high end Sony and Panny stuff is nowhere to be seen.  Everywhere reputable that sells Panny GH also sells Blackmagic.

@Damphousse, I wasn't writing about me, but about most  prosumer video shooters who will buy the camera and get frustrated just as masses of DSLR/mirrorless shooters got frustated with the first-generation Pocket. (It's one of the cameras with almost unlimited supply on the second-hand market.) You can see it on Blackmagic's forum where people now start demanding electronic in-body stabilization (!) for the Pocket4K, apparently without knowing what kind of camera (concept) they're dealing with.

Over here in Europe, Blackmagic cameras are only available in professional AV/video equipment retail (i.e. vendors like CVP or Marcotec) whereas Panasonic GH cameras can be bought at any good camera store.

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Interesting quote from John Brawley about the cooling on the P4k:

"Like all other BMD cameras, the fan is a constant on and hasn’t really been a problem as far as I’ve ever “heard”. The camera doens’t cool with a fan. Like ALexa, they use a solid state cooling system, piped to a heat sink. There the fan ensures the heat escapes quietly. So not like a Sony or RED where you suddenly get loud fan noises. Like an Alexa where it’s constant and quiet."

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4 hours ago, Logan said:

Because Sony has been showing that they will push tech down quickly to gain marketshare. Panasonic is leading the way right now, but I'm guessing Sony will make the jump first to steal userbase. I hope I'm wrong and they all add it into their range, but we'll see. 

Ehhh, not so much outside of their own sensors and AF. Sony takes the best sensor and then finds every way to cut corners in order to maintain margins. UHS-I card slots in a 42mp camera, no intervalometer like literally every other brand has, no PP's on the flagship and so on - SMH. They rolled with that crappy 28mbps AVCHD for a couple years past its shelf life and now we're seeing the same lazy 8-bit, 100mbps video in every subsequent camera they've released. A73 video looks like a lot of NR at higher ISO's, its smoke and mirrors with the blogger junkets raving about revolutionary features (eye AF, HDR video!). The gulf between the alphas and the FS line is pretty wide. And with the recent mk3's getting the same lazy video spec, it'll be awhile before anything changes since we probably won't see a new a7 body for another 2 years. The a7s3 is still a mystery at this point and at best it gets 8- 4k60p, the FS5mkII showed exactly where the alphas will not tread. They haven't even added higher bitrates or 10-bit to the alpha lineup - Canon will have a raw hybrid camera before Sony. But I agree with Jon, the first big player with raw will be Panasonic IMO, because as a hybrid camera Panasonic falls short on the stills side, so they need every edge they can get on the video side. Geez, Fuji has even passed Sony on the video side - again my opinion - but the 200mbps stuff out of the XH1 is a step above what the a7's can do. For all their technical prowess, they're hell bent on protecting the FS line, compared to the competition Sony's video has become just meh... All I can say is I'd be genuinely shocked if Sony is first to raw in a hybrid.

I hope sales of the P4k move into GH5/A7s territory or even exceed them, that's the only way the bigger players will respond - when it puts a dent in their bottom lines. Sadly it'll likely be a small volume enthusiast niche camera, leaving us stuck with incremental "upgrades." How long has it been since the original Blackmagic Cinema camera - that goofy silver box with the crappy rear screen? Its been 5 or so years, right? Still no sub $4000 raw from any of the major players.

Chris

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3 hours ago, Damphousse said:

You can use the IS on Canon lenses with a speedbooster.  That is what I do with my BMPCC.

Interesting. Didn't know hat.

3 hours ago, Damphousse said:

I also use tripods.  I am in the market for a monopod.  A gimble is also in my future.

Yes, tripods. Have a look at the Sirui monopod. It's fantastic:

This is the carbon version. I have the aluminum version, cost 160€ in a regular shop.

I am also planning to use a gimbal, own the Ronin M (too big) and the Zhiyun Crane ("1"). We could use hyperfocal distance instead of AF. Or we use something like this.

Most of all, I have the best idea for a new "rig". Consisting of parts for under 10€. 

@John Brawley

Please tell us: 

Will there be something you can show us in advance?

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1 hour ago, Axel said:

Interesting. Didn't know hat.

Yes, tripods. Have a look at the Sirui monopod. It's fantastic:

This is the carbon version. I have the aluminum version, cost 160€ in a regular shop.

I am also planning to use a gimbal, own the Ronin M (too big) and the Zhiyun Crane ("1"). We could use hyperfocal distance instead of AF. Or we use something like this.

Most of all, I have the best idea for a new "rig". Consisting of parts for under 10€. 

@John Brawley

Please tell us: 

Will there be something you can show us in advance?

I own that Sirui and LOVE it. 

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The "mojo" of any Blackmagic (including the pocket) is unique. 

The film texture unmatchable, there is no Sony, Panasonic or even Canon at that price point.

We must wait until see the real footage of this one, and the posible problems of hardware (hope none)

And wait until the A7s mark 3 specs (2,5 times the cost of this)

What do you think about the BMPCC4K against the A7III? ($ 700 more)

 

Regards!

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12 hours ago, Snuff said:

I have recently got for my old Pocket a good power solution. It works more than 5 hours with this power bank powered by 5x hi quality 18650 batteries. You can also put it in a cell phone tripod mount to attach it to the camera. You need to get a LEMO connector to power a new BMPCC4K. 

1. Power Bank 5x18650 QD 185-TY ($20.8) https://www.dhgate.com/product/18650-power-bank-case-battery-holder-output/388633847.html

Size: 13cm* 8cm*2.0cm (5.1' x 3' x 0.8').

2. 5x VariCore New Original 18650 NCR18650B Rechargeable Li-ion battery 3.7V 3400mAh ($14.7) https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/4pcs-lot-2015-100-New-Original18650-3-7V-3400mah-NCR18650B-Lithium-Rechargeable-Battery-For-Panasonic-batteries/32433452171.html

3. Universal Cell Phone Tripod Mount ($3.9) https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/OOTDTY-Universal-Cell-Phone-Tripod-Mount-Clipper-Vertical-Bracket-Holder-360-Degree-Adjustable-4XFC-Drop-Ship/32833106727.html

3. 2 pin LEMO connector for BMPCC4K ($7.3) https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/LEMO-Connector-FGG-0B-2-3-4-5-6-7-9-Pin-Male-Connector-0B-FGG/32836029840.html

 

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I don't believe the pocket 4k uses a standard 2 pin lemo. The male pins are inside of the camera, where on the Lemo connector the male pins are in the connector.

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On 4/12/2018 at 4:21 AM, Chhatrapal said:

I am an indie filmmaker, I shot my first feature on Sony HVR-FZ 1, back in 2009 and a year later Canon 5D disrupted the market. We toiled hard to get over harsh video look and deep DOF of HVR Z1 and then 5D made us look like fools.

When I heard they had the GH5s in mind even before the launch of GH5, I felt cheated... [bmpcc 4k is the most amazing thing to ever exist]

Thanks for sharing a really interesting perspective. As a hobbyist, whose only done a couple paid gigs (for God's sake use rentals), I've had almost the opposite perspective. It's difficult to feel cheated because there are so many good options. During my undergrad I did a minor in film just because it was something I enjoyed doing with my spare time. The best camera I could afford for personal use was an Olympus e-pl2 which had 720p 30fps as it's highest resolution and frame rate. Despite the garbage codec, I was able to adapt an old Minolta 58/1.4 and leave my school's cameras in the dust when it came to shallow depth of field. After the gh4 came out, I was able to pick up a cheap second hand gh3 and most recently a gx85 (hacked with cinelikeD). The quality of footage that I get today was unimaginable 10 years ago. I understand that it is really difficult to support yourself as an independent film maker on a budget (i know the limitations of my talents and wouldn't dream of trying to make it. So seriously, proper respect to everyone out there grinding). If you need absolutely the best quality possible while maintaining a budget, I think the market is a catch 22. There will always be a new bit of technology that ups the game. However, if you're focused on narrative and can do without Arri like quality, these revolutionary innovations are amazing to watch. From my perspective, I was saving every penny for the chance to buy a gh5s (which I wanted but certainly didn't NEED) and suddenly the bmpcc 4k promises better quality at half the price! I'm always excited when a better camera is developed. I never feel disappointed with my purchases because every camera I but is at least two years old and I already know how it stands up to the next generation. It might perpetually be a difficult time to make it as an indie filmmaker, but it's an awesome time to be a hobbyist. I guess I just wanted to echo everyone's sentiment that Black Magic is dope on a stick for shattering the budget market with this camera. I strongly suspect the bmpcc 4k is going down in the history books as a game changer, but who knows what will happen in the next few years. I can only hope that BM gets overshadowed by some visionary putting dual iso 8k 240fps 444 raw with built in ND, weather sealing and a 24 hour battery into a twenty dollar camera made of hand crafted mythril. But for now I'm happy.

 

Then again, I bet six months from now BM will release a bmpYTc 4k ("YouTube") that is exactly the same as the bmpcc 4k only it as a fully articulating screen and costs three times the price. Everyone will be on here complaining about how BM ripped them off for not telling them that they planned to release an overpriced selfie cam.

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Oh man, these videos are so absolutely clue- and senseless! They only state the obvious (namely what can also be gathered from BM's camera spec sheet), tout things as new and revolutionary that the old pocket had, too (12bit raw, and even without fans) - while nobody asks the questions that really matter:

  • Will the camera have an OLPF? If not, will moiré be an issue as with the old Pocket?
  • Will the sensor filter stack remain as thin as in previous BM cameras? Will that mean that you will still need IR cut filters and BM camera-specific Speed Boosters?
  • Will the old BMCC Speed Booster work with this camera, or do you need the Speed Booster Ultra?
  • What is the quality of built-in mics and built-in preamps, and to which degree is fan noise audible in recordings with the internal mic?
  • Is the windowed mode only available for high frame rates (for people who want to continue shooting with s16 glass)?
  • Will 4K raw acquisitation work with 300MB/s SD cards and external USB-C flash drives, or will these two interfaces be limited to recording ProRes?
  • Is the camera ISO invariant like all previous BM cameras, or will ISO be baked into the Raw footage because of the Sony sensor?
  • How will the stills photo mode work? (We already know that it will only take raw stills in CinemaDNG mode and only JPEGs when in ProRes recording mode.)
  • What will be the battery life in different usage scenarios (Raw vs. ProRes recording, phantom power vs. no phantom power, lens stabilization vs. no lens stabilization)?
  • What will be the limitations for outdoor use and operating temperatures given the fan slots?
  • Which functions will be assignable to the function keys?

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9 minutes ago, cantsin said:

Oh man, these videos are so absolutely clue- and senseless! They only state the obvious (namely what can also be gathered from BM's camera spec sheet), tout things as new and revolutionary that the old pocket had, too (12bit raw, and even without fans) - while nobody asks the questions that really matter:

  • Will the camera have an OLPF? If not, will moiré be an issue as with the old Pocket?
  • Will the sensor filter stack remain as thin as in previous BM cameras? Will that mean that you will still need IR cut filters and BM camera-specific Speed Boosters?
  • Will the old BMCC Speed Booster work with this camera, or do you need the Speed Booster Ultra?
  • What is the quality of built-in mics and built-in preamps, and to which degree is fan noise audible in recordings with the internal mic?
  • Is the windowed mode only available for high frame rates (for people who want to continue shooting with s16 glass)?
  • Will 4K raw acquisitation work with 300MB/s SD cards and external USB-C flash drives, or will these two interfaces be limited to recording ProRes?
  • Is the camera ISO invariant like all previous BM cameras, or will ISO be baked into the Raw footage because of the Sony sensor?
  • How will the stills photo mode work? (We already know that it will only take raw stills in CinemaDNG mode and only JPEGs when in ProRes recording mode.)
  • What will be the battery life in different usage scenarios (Raw vs. ProRes recording, phantom power vs. no phantom power, lens stabilization vs. no lens stabilization)?
  • What will be the limitations for outdoor use and operating temperatures given the fan slots?
  • Which functions will be assignable to the function keys?

I agree. And he says he misses actual buttons and dials but it has the specific buttons right there, huge, next to the record button with a scroll dial. Was he even there lol 

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11 minutes ago, cantsin said:

Oh man, these videos are so absolutely clue- and senseless! They only state the obvious (namely what can also be gathered from BM's camera spec sheet), tout things as new and revolutionary that the old pocket had, too (12bit raw, and even without fans) - while nobody asks the questions that really matter:

  • Will the camera have an OLPF? If not, will moiré be an issue as with the old Pocket?
  • Will the sensor filter stack remain as thin as in previous BM cameras? Will that mean that you will still need IR cut filters and BM camera-specific Speed Boosters?
  • Will the old BMCC Speed Booster work with this camera, or do you need the Speed Booster Ultra?
  • What is the quality of built-in mics and built-in preamps, and to which degree is fan noise audible in recordings with the internal mic?
  • Is the windowed mode only available for high frame rates (for people who want to continue shooting with s16 glass)?
  • Will 4K raw acquisitation work with 300MB/s SD cards and external USB-C flash drives, or will these two interfaces be limited to recording ProRes?
  • Is the camera ISO invariant like all previous BM cameras, or will ISO be baked into the Raw footage because of the Sony sensor?
  • How will the stills photo mode work? (We already know that it will only take raw stills in CinemaDNG mode and only JPEGs when in ProRes recording mode.)
  • What will be the battery life in different usage scenarios (Raw vs. ProRes recording, phantom power vs. no phantom power, lens stabilization vs. no lens stabilization)?
  • What will be the limitations for outdoor use and operating temperatures given the fan slots?
  • Which functions will be assignable to the function keys?

I think the problem is that much of this could not be answered by black magic. That is to say they did not want to commit to answers. I was surprised to learn that the reps refused to go on camera with any details that were not already posted on the website.  

I believe you will need to use the same speedbooster that the GH5S uses. Battery life is quoted as upto 1 hour.

Stills mode is limited to 8MP. So that's not ideal.

Since they would not allow anyone to insert an SD card no one knows how audio will sound. 

It was frustrating trying to pin them down for answers.  I think this explains why most videos only state known facts. We did try to show size and handling. I'm sure footage will be available in the coming months. 

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6 hours ago, cantsin said:

Oh man, these videos are so absolutely clue- and senseless! They only state the obvious (namely what can also be gathered from BM's camera spec sheet), tout things as new and revolutionary that the old pocket had, too (12bit raw, and even without fans) - while nobody asks the questions that really matter:

  • Will the camera have an OLPF? If not, will moiré be an issue as with the old Pocket?
  • Will the sensor filter stack remain as thin as in previous BM cameras? Will that mean that you will still need IR cut filters and BM camera-specific Speed Boosters?
  • Will the old BMCC Speed Booster work with this camera, or do you need the Speed Booster Ultra?
  • What is the quality of built-in mics and built-in preamps, and to which degree is fan noise audible in recordings with the internal mic?
  • Is the windowed mode only available for high frame rates (for people who want to continue shooting with s16 glass)?
  • Will 4K raw acquisitation work with 300MB/s SD cards and external USB-C flash drives, or will these two interfaces be limited to recording ProRes?
  • Is the camera ISO invariant like all previous BM cameras, or will ISO be baked into the Raw footage because of the Sony sensor?
  • How will the stills photo mode work? (We already know that it will only take raw stills in CinemaDNG mode and only JPEGs when in ProRes recording mode.)
  • What will be the battery life in different usage scenarios (Raw vs. ProRes recording, phantom power vs. no phantom power, lens stabilization vs. no lens stabilization)?
  • What will be the limitations for outdoor use and operating temperatures given the fan slots?
  • Which functions will be assignable to the function keys?

I can answer almost all of that because I have been following this camera closely.

  • Camera has no OLPF and some of the sample images do have moiré.  Because it's a 4K recording camera it will be significantly reduced but still there.
  • The cameras have ALWAYS had an IR cut filter in them.  Every Blackmagic does but it's a less strong one requiring IR cut or IRND filters.  Most cinema cameras do this because it gives you more accurate color rendition whereas strong IR cut filters found in consumer cameras make the images too green and affect the skintones which the color science has to compensate for.  The mount is normal size this time so you can use regular speedbooster Ultra.
  • You need Speedbooster Ultra for the most full sensor coverage.
  • Built-in mics have no tests available, but the mini-xlr connector is the same as the video assist 4K and Ursa Mini Pro so pretty good overall.
  • Windowed mode is only available in high frame rates BUT they will likely update the firmware to fix this.
  • There is no limit as far as recording media.  If it's the same as the other Blackmagic cameras you can record any framerate or codec to any media option but it will obviously stop recording if frames are dropped.  So as media speeds increase, yes you might be able to do 4K 60fps raw loseless to an SD card.
  • This sensor is a dual mode sensor.  So if you work in the 400ISO mode you would be limited to raw adjustments only in that mode, and same with the 3200 mode.  So it's likely you have to be recording in the correct mode (400 or 3200) and you're limited to small adjustments within those limits.
  • Stills photo mode is just a capture of live-view not the same as a photo camera.
  • Battery life drops a lot.  A BM employee said with XLR phantom power it could be as low as 20 mins but that was probably a guess.
  • Functions that are assignable with the keys should be the same kind you can assign with the Ursa Mini Pro.  It's the same OS.

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Everything you need to know about the camera that I'm almost positive is true.

  • The camera has no OLPF and it's the same as every other Blackmagic camera with a weaker IR cut filter.  I'm pretty sure that color accuracy is diminished when you use the stronger ones found in prosumer cameras and canon cinema series, so they use weaker ones and therefore require IR cut or IRND when using ND filters.  All Blackmagic cameras do have IR cut filters on the glass over the sensor.
  • Moire will be visible because of no OLPF but based on every other Blackmagic 4K and higher recording camera it shouldn't be a real issue in 99% of circumstances.
  • The screen is the same as the one found on the Ursa Mini 4.6K, 4K, and VideoAssist 4K.
  • There are 4 video recording modes.  BMD Film, Video, Extended dynamic range video, and Hybrid Log Gamma.
  • There are likely no limits to codecs on different recording media.  As long as your SD, SSD, or Cfast can handle the data rate it should work. Otherwise the frames will drop instantly and recording will stop.
  • The audio preamps are the same as the VideoAssist 4K and Ursa Mini PRO so they are tested and reviews can be found online.  
  • The Battery life is 1 hour continuous recording, but depending on other features (phantom power, USB-C SSD, etc.) the battery life will drop accordingly.  You will experience roughly 10-15 mins shorter battery life based on the power consumption of a Samsung T5 SSD.
  • Speedbooster XL or Ultra is required for the full coverage of the sensor.  Ultra allows APS-C lenses (some might slightly vignette) and XL is designed for full-frame only.  You can likely use the Pocket speedbooster to decrease the crop factor further during windowed mode (120fps, etc.)
  • The camera can do up to 100 fps no window.
  • OS is similar to Ursa Mini models so much improved over BMCC and BMPCC.
  • The sensor has 2 ISO modes.  400 and 3200.  The 400 mode is active from 200-800 and the 3200 mode will be active from 1600-25600.  So likely your raw adjustments will be around one of these two operating modes.  Any ISO changes will likely only stretch as far as the mode allows.  If you shoot in 200 ISO, you can't push it to say 12,800.  If they allow you to change ISO which they probably will.
  • Size of the camera is similar to a 5D mark III but a little bit wider. Weight of the body is supposedly 750g body only.
  • Camera shoots raw in lossless, 3:1 and 4:1 compression ratios.  The 4:1 is the smallest in size but artifacts slightly more than the 3:1 when pushed to extreme levels.  All of the raw modes are very good.
  • It features the new GEN 4 color science which currently is only found in the Ursa Broadcast cameras.
  • Gen 1 - BMCC, Pocket, Micro Cinema, Production Camera 4K, URSA 4K
    Gen 3 - URSA Mini 4K/4.6K/Pro
    Gen 4 - URSA Mini Broadcast and Pocket Cinema 4K
    Other cameras might recieve an updated soon.

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o have only one question about the new pocket : why do you think they ditched the articulated screen in favor of the fix one? I mane it was only about the money? how expensive was to at least make it rotate up and down like on the samsung nx1 to be able to shoot from lower or upper angles which happens all the time when you go handheld? probably they assumed that you will rig it all the time but than you would loose the run and gun style of a pocket camera. 

i don't even wanna go into details of the ceo interview when he's talking about shooting yourself - such a silly way to make it appeal to the new wave of vloggers and travelers or whatever is that niche. This camera dosen't need that and it is certainly not designed for that. How the hell would you shoot yourself without seeing what you shoot?

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8 minutes ago, cojocaru27 said:

o have only one question about the new pocket : why do you think they ditched the articulated screen in favor of the fix one? I mane it was only about the money? how expensive was to at least make it rotate up and down like on the samsung nx1 to be able to shoot from lower or upper angles which happens all the time when you go handheld? probably they assumed that you will rig it all the time but than you would loose the run and gun style of a pocket camera. 

i don't even wanna go into details of the ceo interview when he's talking about shooting yourself - such a silly way to make it appeal to the new wave of vloggers and travelers or whatever is that niche. This camera dosen't need that and it is certainly not designed for that. How the hell would you shoot yourself without seeing what you shoot?

I think you answered your own question: it’s going to work best on a gimbal, rig or tripod.

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