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Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K

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3 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

People are not going to use this camera for long shoots. This is not a Corporate, Doc camera. That is Canon C100, C300 territory.  Vloggers, Weddings hell it doesn't even have AF worth shit. Yeah right.

I've done tonnes of vlogs and weddings without ever once using AutoFocus. 

And I'm 100% certain many corporate shooters will use the BMPCC4K, and some doco shooters too. 

 

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1 minute ago, IronFilm said:

I've done tonnes of vlogs and weddings without ever once using AutoFocus. 

And I'm 100% certain many corporate shooters will use the BMPCC4K, and some doco shooters too. 

 

I'd be surprised if they didn't.

The vlogging community has been jumping up and down about a "floppy screen" and great AF, but all the Sony vloggers have learned to vlog without seeing the screen, and GH5 users have learned about MF, so it's possible.

Considering that run and gun docos, corporate gigs, and the like are more controlled and slower paced affairs (certainly than the grind of daily vlogging) so MF and other limitations are surmountable.  People have been running and gunning at close to the same pace probably since auto-exposure.  and with film there was no preview window :)

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1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

To be honest I would love to see Smartphones get about twice as better as they are now and I would be in business. I am amazed what little effort is required to get decent video now out of one compared to packing all the crap you need for a decent rig. And I don't think it is that far off to be honest. Now sure you aren't going to make a feature film with one anytime soon, but for the average stuff a lot of us do, lugging around a kit from hell is a bit overboard. 😵


Was chatting on Facebook about this music video shot (just around the corner from where I live! I've been to this studio before) with a Samsung S9:
 

As the person was asking how good does it look?

Well to me it is blatantly obvious it was shot with a cellphone!

 

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33 minutes ago, IronFilm said:


Was chatting on Facebook about this music video shot (just around the corner from where I live! I've been to this studio before) with a Samsung S9:
 

As the person was asking how good does it look?

Well to me it is blatantly obvious it was shot with a cellphone!

 

They had to make an effort to make it look that bad! You know and I know they can look a Lot better than that.

This one is pretty good.

And this is not too bad for night time.

 

10 hours ago, IronFilm said:


Seems even in 2018 there are still very high end cameras out there which require you to reload the media and batteries again on a very frequent basis:

http://jwsoundgroup.net/?app=core&module=system&controller=content&do=find&content_class=forums_Topic&content_id=31876&content_commentid=350277

 

Think that is bad check out the Data Usage on the Arri Panavision 65 @ Open Gate 6.5K, 5858mbs! 10 minutes on a 512gb card!

http://www.arri.com/camera/alexa/tools/arri_formats_datarate_calculator/

 

 

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31 minutes ago, Mokara said:

So, given a choice between a C200 or similar and this thing at the same price, you would choose the BM camera?

I can use pretty much any camera I choose to on a show like this.

Which is why comments like yours don’t make a lot of sense.  There’s always exceptions to totalitarian comments like that 🙂

In this case, I short a short test in pre of the kinds of shots we’d be doing on the show. We blind tested DXL, Alexa Mini, Helium and UMP. 

The very very experienced and visually accomplished director picked the UMP as the one he liked most for look based on the graded images from the four cameras we tested. He’s also worked with me before with the operating style you see above which he also likes very much.  

Based on look (from a blind test) and based on operating ballistics (as above) production chose UMP.  

Like I said on a pilot we could have had pretty much any camera we wanted.

What would a C200 give me in drama shooting that the UMP doesn’t have ? 

JB

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24 minutes ago, John Brawley said:

What would a C200 give me in drama shooting that the UMP doesn’t have ? 

The Canon logo, and less features. 

Next to film, Sony Venice is my favorite image. Then UMP. It’s really a special image. 

I really hope it’s upcoming little brother rocks. Not that the UMP is huge, but I’m trying balance image with size. 

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C200 is a crippled camera.  No timecode, no Prores, only a "Raw Lite" codec that varies between 12 and 10-bit depending on framerates.  Canon again did their sneaky business to remove any features that would prevent higher-end clients from ever wanting to use the camera.  For single shooters it's not a bad camera.

Dynamic range of the C200 is less than the Blackmagic too.

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1 hour ago, Savannah Miller said:

Dynamic range of the C200 is less than the Blackmagic too.

Raw in the C200 is advertised at 15 stops. CLog3 is 13-14. So same or better. 

With that being said, the Ursa Pro, C200, and EVA1 are all fine cameras. I assume the P4K will follow suit and be an amazing tool for any low/Micro budget filmmaker and most likely will continue with the moniker as a baby Alexa. 

So pick your poison and go and tell a great story, they’re all capable tools. 

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2 hours ago, mercer said:

Raw in the C200 is advertised at 15 stops. CLog3 is 13-14. So same or better.  

Doesn’t shoot ProRes. 

Inconsistently can’t shoot 12 bit and has to shoot compressed RAW to do it.

Doesnt as easily look like Alexa as the UMP does.

Doesnt do TC. Major major problem in a multi camera TV drama series. That makes it instantly a non starter by the way for any serious regular use.

Unergonomic to use the way I like to operate.

The only thing it can do better for the way i shoot is AF.  And I don’t really use AF.

JB

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3 hours ago, mercer said:

Raw in the C200 is advertised at 15 stops. CLog3 is 13-14. So same or better. 

With that being said, the Ursa Pro, C200, and EVA1 are all fine cameras. I assume the P4K will follow suit and be an amazing tool for any low/Micro budget filmmaker and most likely will continue with the moniker as a baby Alexa. 

So pick your poison and go and tell a great story, they’re all capable tools. 

C200 has "15 stops" of dynamic range but that's a manufacturer claim.  Blackmagic at least in my view is a bit more realistic with their dynamic range claims and Ursa Mini has about a 1 stop advantage over the c200.

Like JB mentioned.  No prores, no timecode, etc.  It's like canon knew exactly what to do to make this camera not useful to professional shooters and crews so that you'll buy their better cameras..

Ursa Mini Pro has minor compromises, but it clearly shows the difference between an affordable camera built with market-segmentation in mind and a camera that is built with no limitations.

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53 minutes ago, John Brawley said:

Doesn’t shoot ProRes. 

Inconsistently can’t shoot 12 bit and has to shoot compressed RAW to do it.

Doesnt as easily look like Alexa as the UMP does.

Doesnt do TC. Major major problem in a multi camera TV drama series. That makes it instantly a non starter by the way for any serious regular use.

Unergonomic to use the way I like to operate.

The only thing it can do better for the way i shoot is AF.  And I don’t really use AF.

JB

I’m sure you could do wonders with a C200. Your work with the E-M5 Mark II was inspiring, so the C200 and one of your Zeiss’s would probably be pretty epic. 

Plus, Canon Log 2 has a very similar curve as LogC with middle grey both at around 40. Granted, I get your point and agree it’s not for every job and wouldn’t suit your needs.

But without a doubt, a lot of indie, micro filmmakers could make a gorgeous calling card short with it.

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4 minutes ago, mercer said:

I’m sure you could do wonders with a C200. Your work with the E-M5 Mark II was inspiring, so the C200 and one of your Zeiss’s would probably be pretty epic. 

Plus, Canon Log 2 has a very similar curve as LogC with middle grey both at around 40. Granted, I get your point and agree it’s not for every job and wouldn’t suit your needs.

But without a doubt, a lot of indie, micro filmmakers could make a gorgeous calling card short with it.

You can't use it for TV drama because timecode is required.  You also cannot shoot raw or 4K acquisition without approval from very specific people, so not a chance you will get approved to use it anyway.  

VFX would not like it if you're sending them 8-bit 4:2:0 files.

The C200 is a really good camera, but Canon was very direct and strategic with how they chose to cripple the camera.  From an image standpoint, the color doesn't match as nicely to Alexa either, but that can probably be worked around with an experienced colorist.

 

For single shooters not working with a crew, they might find the C200 better than the ursa mini pro, so it's a different market.

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14 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Think that is bad check out the Data Usage on the Arri Panavision 65 @ Open Gate 6.5K, 5858mbs! 10 minutes on a 512gb card!

 

Yes but they had to do this all the time with the VENICE due to flaws with the camera itself, but a bet a firmware update will soon fix this camera.

 

10 hours ago, John Brawley said:

I think Zero Dark Thirty has some of the best night work. It was shot at iso 200 on alexa. 

And people think you need high ISO cameras to shoot night scenes!

2 hours ago, mercer said:

I’m sure you could do wonders with a C200. Your work with the E-M5 Mark II was inspiring, so the C200 and one of your Zeiss’s would probably be pretty epic. 

The E-M5 mkII had a minor usage, so production could live with its flaws. But for one of the main cameras then you'd expect more from the C200 and not be so crippled, a C300mk2 would probably suit JB better than a C200.

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C300 mark II still doesn't do prores, so not useful as much as Ursa Mini Pro.  Form factor sucks as well and viewfinder is useless in it's odd position.

Ursa Mini Pro is clearly the only camera under $10K that is usable in professional workflows without a lot of hassle or limitation.

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