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Canon 5D mark iii RAW video 2018


kidzrevil
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Glad to hear they've sorted some issues and that ML on the 5D is working so good for others, but I'm afraid my experience has been tainted by having numerous lockups and a dead 5D on set (even if for 10mn only.. those were some long a$$ 10mn!). It's kind of like all the wonder stories about drug trips you hear and then there is that one out of a 100 risk of OD and well i'm not taking that chance even if odds are good!

As far as BMD cameras.. i wasn't thinking of the pocket but rather the production or URSA's which i can rent for quite cheap the odd times clients really requires raw recording (which is much less than what people may think, even netflix DOPs reveal they favor Prores most of the time.. because who has time/space for raw these days?) it's definitely amazing though what ML have achieved and I only wish they could hack more recent models with beefier processors. the old 5D raw footage i've got still blows my socks off..

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14 minutes ago, hyalinejim said:

As a starting point, middle grey as understood by the 5D3's internal meter clocks in at around 128 in RGB values, or 50% if you use the "percent" readout. This remains roughly true across all stock picture styles and contrast levels. But values above and below this middle point would change when you change the picture style.

If you set the spotmeter to show RAW EV (number of stops below clipping) then you're getting a readout of the actual RAW data, which is independent of picture style. Here, middle grey as understood by the metering system is approx -4 EV.

@kidzrevil You could also try setting your histogram to show RAW values - this helps an awful lot with exposure.

I recall something like 115 for midgrey but it's been 4 years since I've last shot the 5d3, I may be wrong. Having raw white clip referred values is pretty cool, we didn't have these back then. IMO, the problem with using a histogram for exposure is that it kind of promotes post unfriendly habits like ETTR. The spotmeter on the other hand is all about consistency.

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Speaking of metering... has anyone used the Histobar with ETTR Hint? I read the post a1ex wrote up on it and I have found it quite useful at 0.5 but I’m still testing it out. I do like how it appears off frame as sometimes the Histogram and Spotmeter can be distracting for composition. 

With the Raw Histogram I can usually get good exposure by making sure I back off a little more after the red channel stops clipping... although it isnt a scientific method, nor consistent. 

The one good thing about Canon and Raw is that it is really tough to get bad skin tones but consistency is important so I’m really trying to fine tune a quick approach. 

1 hour ago, hyalinejim said:

As a starting point, middle grey as understood by the 5D3's internal meter clocks in at around 128 in RGB values, or 50% if you use the "percent" readout. This remains roughly true across all stock picture styles and contrast levels. But values above and below this middle point would change when you change the picture style.

If you set the spotmeter to show RAW EV (number of stops below clipping) then you're getting a readout of the actual RAW data, which is independent of picture style. Here, middle grey as understood by the metering system is approx -4 EV.

Great info. So do you use a combo of the Spotmeter and Raw Histogram to Check your color clipping? Or would you recommend the Spotmeter for subject exposure and zebras for an overall overexposure metric?

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4 hours ago, seku said:

Then again, i filmed a whole 3 week vacation with 3k 21:9 RAW, 7seconds maximum in 10bit (compressed wasn't out back then). with sound. I still need to work through those 2 teras of footage... :grimace: 

That doesn't sound like much of a fun Vacation LoL. You have way more patience than I have to do that! :grimace:

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To add @hyalinejim and @squig gave me the most helpful information I found anywhere online about setup and exposure when I first started with my 5D3. Little things like exact shutter speed, the ETTR Hint, etc, etc were so valuable.

Now the conventional wisdom is that to get the best results you want to expose to the right as far as possible to avoid that horrible chroma noise but then @zerocool22 has that amazing Japan Wolf video and I believe he exposed to the middle and used noise reduction? And there’s also the guy who made that Alexa LUT that says to get better color fidelity you should shoot ML Raw 1 stop under.

Either way @kidzrevil, whichever method you prefer... you’re off to a great start and, resolution aside, I don’t think I’ve seen a more organic image from any of your previous work. Once you get comfortable with the workflow and get your in camera settings down, I think this will become your go to camera. 

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I do have both BMD cameras (Pocket and Cinema 2.5K) and Canon cameras with ML (50D and EOS-M), and I love both. But: Lock-ups with the Canon cameras do occur, crashes where you lose your settings do occur, too, operation mistakes because of complex and fiddly interface overlays/menus do occur as well - whereas the BMDs have super-simple, clean and robust user interfaces, and create very little risk of operation errors. ML, IMHO, remains experimental (which also applies to documentation and utility software being hidden in the discussion forums, need to use nightly builds etc.etc.).

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You know I would like to see a BMCC versus ML 5D mk III side by side comparison. I would guess maybe the Canon would win, but yeah, a BMCC is a Hell of a lot easier workflow wise.

Well I found one with a early version of ML. Pretty close. But Only 1080p on the Canon then I guess..

https://nofilmschool.com/2013/05/blackmagic-cinema-camera-canon-5d-mark-iii-raw-video-test

 

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9 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

@mercer I’ve been using the auto ettr feature at -0.5 im gonna test it more tonight.I love the results im getting out of it so far. Hopefully my theory that the tiffen black diffusion fx will take care of the highlight aliasing I see in my footage is true

I tried the auto ETTR once in Shutter priority mode and everything went bonkers. The ISO was jumping all over the place. Full manual works way better in my opinion. Although I have tested Shutter priority at +1 and it was okay when all things were equal. 

@webrunner5 good find. The separation in the earlier shots is insane. I saw he shot with the Sigma 50mm and the Rokinon 85mm (among others) I wonder which of the two were used in those early shots... I’d ask him on Vimeo but his page hasn’t had an upload in 4 years... so I may be waiting a while for a reply...

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@DaveAltizer Good stuff man that 1dc image is glorious ! I had a contax zeiss set in my NX1 days but I recently settled on some nikkon pre ai prime lenses. I love the look of the image and the fact that they all use 52mm filters.I REALLY love the image of the voigtlanders on the 5D though the seperation is hard to explain. You get so much depth of field even in their wide angles it almost reminds me of shooting anamorphic

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1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

What is, was, this dual ISO thingy on the 5D mk III?? I know this is a old, 2013 video though.

Wow there is some serious detail in this Commercial using a ML 5D mk III.

 

You can increase the default 11,7 EV DR of the ISO100 on the 5D cameras to 14 EV with dual iso. 1 line ISO100 and 1 line ISO800 readout Downsides: banding/moire /half resolution in the non overlaped areas, such us highlights and deep shadows, long processing times. It's not worth it in video mode, the resolution drop in the highlights is too obvious. In photo mode it's insane, you can reach Nikon level of dynamic range.

In the second video you can see serious oversharpening...  

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@DaveAltizer   Here is some interesting Red Dragon 6k for you. He Had to bring it up didn't he. :anguished:

 

1 hour ago, mercer said:

 

@webrunner5 good find. The separation in the earlier shots is insane. I saw he shot with the Sigma 50mm and the Rokinon 85mm (among others) I wonder which of the two were used in those early shots... I’d ask him on Vimeo but his page hasn’t had an upload in 4 years... so I may be waiting a while for a reply...

SO are you suggesting that maybe ML was better back then than now, at least in 1080p??

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@Deadcode how do you switch to 12 bit ? I've been searching high and low trying to figure this out !!! Also is there a way to force the dng to display the image as the picture profile it was shot with ? I really love visioncolor picture profile and would like to work off of that in post 

@Mattias Burling @Django magic lantern has been reliable since like the t3i LOL besides ML Raw has been around for so long its expected that an open source community like that would have the problem under control

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12 minutes ago, mercer said:

Not at all... unsure where you got that from? Just curious your thoughts on which lens he used for the opening shots.

https://vimeo.com/71749184

I think maybe he used the Canon 100mm f 2.8 on the opening?? They are pretty far away to have used a wide angle lens I think and still looked that big on screen.. There is a Lot of OOF and compression behind them.

Wow it may be the 85 f 1.4 now that I re look at it again.

I guess i just got an impression that the video was pretty amazing to you and I will admit me also using that old of a ML hack. And it only I guess was 1080p at the time??

 

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