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Emanuel

GH5 Noise Reduction @high ISOs simply sucks...

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2 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

@webrunner5

 

Whatever works really, I understand one man band people like the A7s so much, but video productions are team work, and I am trying to change this "lone-wolf" mentality, even in my lowest budget jobss I try to employ 1-2 more persons (DP and/or after effects specialist), even if that means that I am earning silly money in the end. 

 

Good move on the move away from one person. It is not much fun, and really no way as good production wise as more people can acomplish. It just puts everyone more at ease, even the Actors. No one is great at every aspect of film making. It should be a "little fun" making stuff, or hell why do it.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

Well a little, I am going to bed wisdom from a old turd. "Creating something great solo is like a piss in the snow, compared to something average shared". Yeah I just made that up.  :grimace:

Ergo, go out and have fun with friends ,close associates, not just stay to your self. Even when filming. It is about laughing with each other, not trying to be serious as hell.

Life goes scary fast, too damn fast. Enjoy it. You will soon be a old turd yourself.

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4 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

You can't shoot everything wide open at f1.8 or less and expect to get much in focus. That is where the Sony A7s shines. He can shoot at f5.6 and get stuff in focus without worrying if he blew the whole thing focus wise. That is a hell of a great luxury to have as an option. MFT in a bar at night is not my idea of hog heaven, especially using a f1.2 lens. IBIS only helps you with motion blur, not lens focus. But true like you said you can shoot  lower ISO. But it's not like Sony doesn't have stabilized lenses.

What would really be nice if we had the money to have 4 or 5 camera systems. Nobody has the perfect camera, or if that was the case we would not need to be on here! I would not really like to use the A7s all the time in reality. The sucky battery life, limited recording time what like 12 minutes, no internal 4k, kind of on the small size, no IBIS on the first one, etc.

The battery life is actually a lot better than most would think.    The trick is to use fresh batteries and if you do, you can get over a 1000 shots if shooting straight away.

I had three batteries with me (all are getting old and due for replacement) but only used one and left after around 400 shots with well over 50% left.        Had I taken a few shots, put the camera away shot some more later, put the camera away ETC, THEN I would have got poor battery life.

The A7s doesn't have a 12minute recording time.     I mostly don't record for that long anyway as I am just shooting songs one at a time (didn't record at all on Friday) but it has a 29min limit (I think it is).     I have never had any over heating with it.      My previous Pentax Kx on the other hand would burn after one or two songs.

EDIT I just  put in a fresh (but old) battery.     Turned on video, and put the camera on my bed on a woolly blanket.     Shooting both XAVC-S and MP4 at the same time.      Got to 29mins and whatever seconds with 69% battery left.     The bottom of the camera was just mildly warm.     I have turned it on again and will see how long this lasts.    I expect it will do another 29min and then I will have to change the battery.

I don't need 4k yet (I am curious and keep hoping I can find an external recorder cheap enough).    I prefer the size of the first gen A7s over the second.

I have had a few cameras with IBIS and it would be nice but is not needed so much with the A7s.     

All that said, It isn't the best camera for many things though and not many would choose it as their primary camera.

 I have a GX7 I like a lot too that will maybe need replacing later.   If I had the money, the GH5 would be a strong candidate as it seems a wonderful choice to complement the A7s as they could hardly be more different from each other.     Realistically though, the GH5 is likely far more camera than I need for what it does well and I probably couldn't afford it anyway but I hope it is what everyone wants it to be.

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Ok, after another 29min and 50 seconds it shut off with 24% battery left.     The camera bottom was hardly any warmer (very comfortable to hold).    The grip was also now about as warm.    Not an issue at all.

So, a two to three year old battery gave me an hour of video in two half hour sections with about a quarter capacity left, without any heating issue even when placed on a warm blanket and with the LCD left in and recording both XAVC-S and MP4 at the same time.   

Not a camera you could use for remote shooting for hours (but not many are).

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Some ppl has become too allergic to a noise. Noise is there, if it looks like fine grain then it's ok. If its is like nasty artefacts then remove it. But an ad to that Sony a6300 is quite clean in S-log2 up to ISO 16.000.  And in photos, not bad at all. (ISO 8000) 

_DSC6468.JPG

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On 2/18/2017 at 6:33 AM, Emanuel said:

 

Take a look in the differences from 1600 to 3200 ISO, so the secret with this device is to keep it under control. Actually, as happens with all cameras. With a difference here: up to ISO1600 for acceptable response.

I may be the only one to think like this but to me, this looks very clean (at least once youtube compression is applied).
This 3200 Iso looks better than any of my cameras does past 800 iso :D

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10 hours ago, Simon Shasha said:

For sure - when I pre-ordered my GH5, I did it knowing that I will, most likely, be limited to ISO1600 - which, as I stated before, is absolutely fine with my shooting style.

I am getting some very good results from the Olympus E-M1 II in low light (Cinema 4K mode).

If you avoid under exposing the shot, you can easily go to the max ISO 6400 and have a clean picture, and where noise does occur (only in the darkest areas of the shot) it has a pleasing fine grain.

At ISO 3200, the image looks like ISO 400 over well exposed areas of the frame... super saturated and smooth. In the shadows, only a little bit of noise and again a pleasing texture.

At ISO 1600, it looks super clean everywhere on a variety of shots.

The main difference is not just much less noise compared to the older Micro Four Thirds cameras, it's the amount of detail, fine texture, fine grain and nice colour it captures at these high ISOs, whereas the older cameras de-saturated, became muddy, lost a lot of appeal.

All the reviews have shown the RAW stills having same amount of noise as the older E-M1... So it is probably down to a cleaner sensor output in 4K mode and better image processing.

The GH5 I am sure will do ISO 6400 no problem as well, it probably even has the same sensor.

ISO 3200 (4096 x 2160), click for full res frame grab

e-m1 ii iso 3200.jpg

ISO 6400

e-m1 ii iso 6400.jpg

1:1 crop of iSO 3200

em1ii-iso3200-crop.jpg

1:1 crop ISO 6400

em1ii-iso6400-crop.jpg

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11 hours ago, Simon Shasha said:

For sure - when I pre-ordered my GH5, I did it knowing that I will, most likely, be limited to ISO1600 - which, as I stated before, is absolutely fine with my shooting style.

The first camera I was trained on back in 2005 was a Canon Scoopic 16mm with film speeds of ASA20 to ASA640. I guess that experience shaped my shooting style till this day.

Definitely has its limits in low-light - if people are shooting in situations that require ISO100,000, then Blackmagic is not for them.

I had an A7S with a Atomos Shogun. I thought the 4K 8-bit 422 would help with the colour-science and banding. After multiple tests side by side against my BMPCC, I sold the A7S and Shogun combo immediately.

I think I was spoilt by being taught on 16mm. The magic of having my first 16mm footage projected really ingrained (no pun intended) in me the type of fidelity I wanted my images to have. I've been chasing it ever since. I think that's why I love the BMPCC so much - it's the closest I've ever gotten to it by means of a digital format.

I'd shoot 16mm if I had the funds, but what's more, it's next to impossible here in Australia - have to send the film away off-shore to have in processed. Hard to rent high-quality 16mm cameras and lenses too.

I really hope Blackmagic releases a BMPCC 2.0 - perhaps with the 2.5K sensor and 60FPS - that would be beautiful.

Since you like 16mm shooting, use the 4K ETC crop mode on the GH5 to get a 4K to 3.6k S16 window for your S16 lenses 

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You can't compare MFT with APS-C or FF without factoring in the depth of field difference between the sensor sizes. MFT needs 2 stops less light to achieve the same DOF as FF. So a strict ISO to ISO comparison isn't very useful. 

Also, if your footage is interesting enough, nobody will look at noise or noise reduction.

And who needs high ISOs ? Me, regularly, shooting for clients who work on the basis that if they can see it, I should be able to record it.

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On 2/19/2017 at 6:40 AM, Andrew Reid said:

I am getting some very good results from the Olympus E-M1 II in low light (Cinema 4K mode).

Andrew if you ever make a review about the E-M1ii it would be really interesting to compare the HDMI output as well. 

I wasn't that impressed by the quality from Cinema5D sample, but if you can get something better out of it, it might be a decent solution if you primarily shoot stills. 

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3 hours ago, Emanuel said:

 

So many test low light on a completely black night with no light, but I don't shoot like that. I find tests in a dimly lit room so much more useful, don't you? And almost nobody shoots people. I'm far more able to judge noise when I see how it looks in faces than I am on a picket fence or a tree trunk...

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Half-half. It does confirm both sides of the coin. Pretty useable, anyways if set up correctly. Speedbooster will operate miracles for sure. The proof is in the pudding, filmmaking is this.

Post follows the rule:

And here's another interesting sample related to the task...

Explanation for that one to close the aperture on the widest end of that zoom lens is beyond me... The reports say is as sharp as a Leica LOL 1-stop of difference is yet half way of light... Maybe the operator didn't find the need for or found the need for deep rather than shallow DOF... : D Hey, this is not full frame! ; )

Distinct perspectives, oh so, we can't all of us share the same scope on reality out there, isn't it? ; )) Noise is grainy, so... filmic? And Dubai's night life is cutely enough cinematic, though :-)

The challenge/secret is to know the tools. The capture device is (or assembles) only a set of them.

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30 minutes ago, Stab said:

Does anyone know the native ISO of the GH5? I've seen different websites stating different results. I think it is ISO 400, not 200. Correct?

This should be easy enough to figure out. Stick your camera on a tripod in front of your monitor. Create a step wedge chart in photoshop or google one. Expose the camera at ISO400 so that some of the wedges are clipping. Drop ISO down to 200 and check results on a waveform. If 200 is a digital pull, then the clipping point will be the same as 400, just pulled down few IRE.

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