Jump to content
Secret Garden Films

Sony A6500 or Panasonic GH5...?

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Fritz Pierre said:

So I take it you don't feel this piece shot on the GH5 has the "mojo" you need in a camera?...perhaps you can tell us what camera you shoot on that works for you?

 

Only few can make this with a GHx from what I've seen (and knowing a lot of color grading) , there are other cameras that can reach easily for me ( i don`t know much color grading) the "mojo" that i want like Blackmagic, canon and even sony. That´s my point.

Why people always complain about the video ish look of the GHx?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
31 minutes ago, Eduardo Granadsztejn said:

Only few can make this with a GHx from what I've seen (and knowing a lot of color grading) , there are other cameras that can reach easily for me ( i don`t know much color grading) the "mojo" that i want like Blackmagic, canon and even sony. That´s my point.

Why people always complain about the video ish look of the GHx?

 

Wouldn´t guess, people sayin that about the GH cameras. People have always been exited about the image quality. Some like Panasonic the best, some Sony,

a lot of them like Canon, at least for the colors:). Different tastes. But there are hundred times more people liking GHs and G7,8,85 for what they are, low price

cams with some of the best image quality of its range. Too bad, Panasonic has lost love for HD quality in their GX85 and possibly G85 cameras.

Here are two examples what a GH3 was and still is capable of. For the Mekka music video, I don´t dig the prologue with the icecream shop, but the rest looking awesome.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just... people have been begging for high-res and keep hammering down footage has to be sharp and detailed.

Yet... they end up loving soft smeary Canons.

I takes getting used to. Also, you need to know your camera and grading, you can't just buy an exceptional camera and expect yourself to become exceptional by ownership of said camera and get stunning results. It's all in the lensing, lighting, motion and what's in front of the camera. You use it as a point-n-shoot camera? You'll get point-n-shoot results. The quality of results is enhanced by the quality it shoots in. Miss an inch of focus on a GH5 and it's cringe, because it's so noticeable. Do the same with a Canon and you can hardly tell, because it hardly resolves with the same kind of precision. Don't know if a lot of footage out there is from people new to the system, being done with either Canon or Sony, or upgraders from previous iterations of Lumix G cameras. The former group probably still struggles, the latter should in meanwhile know how to make it work by now.

Noticed Albert got himself one! Now that will be an exciting channel to check back to if you like nice looking footage! That last shot is so dope!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Cinegain said:

Just... people have been begging for high-res and keep hammering down footage has to be sharp and detailed.

Yet... they end up loving soft smeary Canons.

I takes getting used to. Also, you need to know your camera and grading, you can't just buy an exceptional camera and expect yourself to become exceptional by ownership of said camera and get stunning results. It's all in the lensing, lighting, motion and what's in front of the camera. You use it as a point-n-shoot camera? You'll get point-n-shoot results. The quality of results is enhanced by the quality it shoots in. Miss an inch of focus on a GH5 and it's cringe, because it's so noticeable. Do the same with a Canon and you can hardly tell, because it hardly resolves with the same kind of precision. Don't know if a lot of footage out there is from people new to the system, being done with either Canon or Sony, or upgraders from previous iterations of Lumix G cameras. The former group probably still struggles, the latter should in meanwhile know how to make it work by now.

Noticed Albert got himself one! Now that will be an exciting channel to check back to if you like nice looking footage!

 

I never said that are bad cameras, it is like Iphone and Samsung cameras, 
The samsung cameras ( S6, s7, s8) are better in many things over than the iphone´s, but to me there are over sharper and over saturated (to my taste)

I like the iphone`s camera "mojo" (even softer) more than the Galaxy´s.

It about taste and what you like.

Just saying that, i know perfectly what are capable the ghx´s 

I will buy a new camera soon (now i have a t2i) and i saw a lot of videos from all cameras below 3.000 usd 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand why people always bring up the "you can shoot something good with any camera!" argument... I'm sure most people here get that and if they don't there's really no point telling them that. Point being cameras DO make a difference, doesn't matter if you're a newbie or award winning producer... if cameras didn't make any difference no one would bother buying a new one and films wouldn't bother shooting with such ridiculous rigs. Yes, some cameras have little added benefit, but that benefit is also personal preference, one mans trash could well be another mans treasure...
People saying things like "If you can't make GHX look filmic you're doing something wrong" are merely ignorant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Eduardo Granadsztejn said:

Only few can make this with a GHx from what I've seen (and knowing a lot of color grading) , there are other cameras that can reach easily for me ( i don`t know much color grading) the "mojo" that i want like Blackmagic, canon and even sony. That´s my point.

Why people always complain about the video ish look of the GHx?

I'm not sure...even on the GH4 I had little problem and the GH 2 which I still own, has an Image I love...but as you know, taste is subjective...I love the image from BM but their earlier 2 cameras were ergonomically impractical IMO...stunning image though....Panasonic color I will take over Canon or Sony any day (except for the Sony F35...which I think has the best digital image of any camera today, including the Alexa)...my only interest is in narrative...I need certain reliability factors satisfied and in my work It's my taste and look that counts...that's what allows me to tell a story...be it 30 seconds or 1 hour....but that's the beauty of today....so many choices...one really can't blame the cameras any more....when I started working in the industry you shoton an Arriflex S35 film camera or for handheld on the shoulder an Aaron S16 film camera...those were the choices and the process was horrendously expensive and really only for the select few...and what you say about the GH cameras is true, but for me (only my opinion) it holds true for all cameras today...far more crap shot on all of them...yet put any of these cameras in the hands of a crew 2 to 3 to operate the GH x or A6500 and lighting and production value and I can guarantee you, you would not know what camera you were looking at...so personally I try to look between the lines when choosing my cameras...but finally...nobody's right or wrong...just different taste and abilities.... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, tweak said:

 I just don't think the 10bit part is going to give most what they expect (something like bmpcc or whatever).
 

Exactly. Many expected to see fairytales and elves on OOC 10 bit footage, but the real benefits will come after summer 400 mbps update & will be noticeable only in post. BTW i saw a comparison with A7S ii (since this is a Sony vs Pana thread) where you can already see a benefit, even with 150 mbps on a sky gradient. I am still waiting for a proper comparison between A7S ii & GH5. I consider these 2 as the only viable and future proof options in this specific form factor for independent cinematographers right now.

Edit. Plus XT-2...(sorry Fuji...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Dimitris Stasinos said:

Exactly. Many expected to see fairytales and elves on OOC 10 bit footage, but the real benefits will come after summer 400 mbps update & will be noticeable only in post. BTW i saw a comparison with A7S ii (since this is a Sony vs Pana thread) where you can already see a benefit, even with 150 mbps on a sky gradient. I am still waiting for a proper comparison between A7S ii & GH5. I consider these 2 as the only viable and future proof options in this specific form factor for independent cinematographers right now.

Edit. Plus XT-2...(sorry Fuji...)

For sure 10-bit is a benefit, no question there, but it's not what I know a lot of people thought it was going to be, nothing like the grade-ability that you have on these other cameras they compare it to. In reality 10-bit makes these cameras such as GH5 what they should be, a camera that actually works well with it's included features (Log etc.). I'm sure they could have included 10-bit a while ago but everyone is more focused on another couple K of useless pixels.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Oliver Daniel said:

In 2017, it's definitely not the camera. It's the user. All of them can deliver great results, if you make it so. 

I've seen A6300 footage which at first sight I though was RED footage (these users happen to be very skilled). 

The GH5 will have crap loads of poor footage out there. It's price is very accessible and amateurs will be pushing around Vlog like you would an elderly person on the edge of a cliff. 

The GH5 in great hands will be a monster. 

I'm absolutely astounded by the 4k image from the A6500. I shot a paid music video project using only the A6500 and the 18-105 f4 in autofocus and absolutely no other gear at all (to see what would happen). I think you need to put the camera (and yourself) under pressure, it forces better results. This video might be out this week. 

 

Am very much looking forward to seeing that! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Cinegain

Quote

 

Just... people have been begging for high-res and keep hammering down footage has to be sharp and detailed.

Yet... they end up loving soft smeary Canons.

 

Hmm...I have to contradict: ONLY some people do it - mostly self proclaimed "cinematographers", copying "cinematic look" from other test video posters. More than 99 percent of users who buy modern cameras are still very happy with their choice...People needing 100% cinematic look just out of a camera and maximum of control and maleability, work witk RAW cameras, as they know, even a 4.2.2 10bit is only a compromise and - in the hands of a good filmmaker & capable colour grader - will never touch the IQ level of RAW footage.

In my eyes, over 90% of "test footage" is simply massacred footage...Trying to get a "quick & dirty" cinematic look with bad lighting, no clue of what one is doing (simply trying to copy settings of other clueless amateurs, workflows and dumbly buying LUT packages) doesn't lead to good results. but it's simply awkward. Better to use the camera with original settings and profiles...

Most of today's cameras (completely independent of manufactures name) have a good resolution (excepting Canon's ancient 720p BS) in 1080p and 4K. But obviously people CAN'T or don't want to handle high resolution (4K+), so they "go vintage": the post-world-war-2-720p mushy Canon BS...And declare it as "cinematic". But - as said - this is only a minority and the claim is a completely irrelevant myth. A vast majority of todays audience 

  • simply doens't care about such called cinematic look
  • simply uses small smartphones/tablet screens and so subtle color grading and 4K & Co don't matter at all
  • using bigger screens (PC, TV) LOVE high resolution and high contrast footage (HDR)

"Tarantino in 2 minutes" is quite hard to achieve...So the few guys "begging for high-res and keep hammering down footage has to be sharp and detailed" should put their money in RAW devices, as noone cares really about their excessive requirements for a under 2.000 USD camera...People wanting to do real cinematography should raise money for some serious artistic and technical education, a serious RAW camera, a truck full of lighting, some good actors, directing and postproduction knowledge etc., etc....At the end of the day, most of us are ambitionned enthusiasts/amateurs or small business filmmakers without time and budget to produce great Hollywood cinematography - and that's completely OK. Some of us should just stop miming the 100 million $ Hollywood producer...

There is clearly a big discrepancy between pretense and reality out there...Nothing to get worried about, just try to do your best and have fun...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/5/2017 at 6:05 PM, HelsinkiZim said:

 

Truth is you need 2 cameras. One dslr for image, one camcorder style camera for ease of use. 

This is my wisdom from 2 years on the scene. Take it or leave it.

Im starting too come to grips with that as well. I wanted to upgrade to a sony a6500 or panasonic gh5 from my Panasonic G80 but honestly I may end up keeping the G80 and get the a6500 as well. One for the full frame look with speedbooster and the other for a super 35mm look with speedbooster. Im finding it hard to believe that my clients will notice the difference between 8bit and 10bit 422 when they've been going crazy over my 4:2:0 8bit footage for years. Maybe if I worked on some crazy netflix production but then again...people have been getting away with canon 5d mark iii footage on the big screen 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@kidzrevil

My mom owns a A6500 and I shoot video with it. GREAT dynamic range and imaging (great for portrait photography too)...But - in my eyes - a love & hate camera. Great for decent street shootings, but still very small - even my mom (about 1,63m high and small hands) has the best feeling only with an additional grip. Menus are a pain and if you want to shoot longer takes, put the hot shoe protection down, open the flash and put the LCD away from the camera - if not, it could probably overheat (warning). It dims when shooting 4K, so on a sunny day, it will get hard to shoot....

But still, I use it for street photography and for 4K footage (street shooting) and low light....great to use with the 35mm 1.8 (OSS) and 12mm 2.0 Samyang/Rokinon (manual). With the 18-105 4.0, you will get almost all you need, considering that the 50mm 1.8 OSS can be bought now for about 250,- Euro...
Great to usew with adapted lenses, I could imagine that some fast Nikon primes could be your taste, as they give this camera some great characteristics...

I call this device "my little piece of plastic garbage" - as I love solid, reliable cameras I could beat to death...But sttill, it's very special and a wonderful piece of technology. My POV: NO ONE will complain about 4.2.0 8bit, excepting you mostly need 4.2.2 10bit or even RAW for heavy grading or simply for your personal post processing pleasure...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Arikhan yeah dude I may take a gamble with the sony a6500 as a second camera instead of only owning the gh5. I agree no one will ever complain about 4.2.0 8 bit. I do a lot of color grading and haven't experienced any crazy artifacts with the sony a7s, or rx10ii so im confident I will be able to get some good footage out of the a6500

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@kidzrevil

Here is a quick screengrab from a 4.2.0 8bit 4K video done with a Zeiss Otus 28mm f/1 4 at F8.0. No color correction, no grading in post - only natural light (shot between golden and blue hour in Frankfurt - as I just wanted to capture the characteristics of the NX1 + Otus. The A6500 is also TOP NOTCH with the Otus on it when shooting architecture, etc. When shooting people, the A6500 is very "special" with the Otus on it, it will take some testing to get the right balance in regard to skin structure...

I know, you are very picky with the look of your videos, especially with skin tones and structure. The A6500 looks great with 35mm 1.8 Nikon + Pro mist, when it comes to skin tonality and structure. You have to treat it very carefully, when it comes to WB! 

I wouldn't worry about 4.2.0|8bit....

*Please consider, that's my personal POV. I never shot IMAX cinema theater films and will never do it....I am simply a visual story teller...

 

NX1_ZOTUS.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Arikhan valid point ! Im sticking to my 4k 8bit 4:2:0 to 10bit 4:4:4. I will not for a second deny the clear advantages gh5 has in 10bit 422 but I understand both cameras are processing a 14 bit raw image and stripping it down to a 4:2:0 8bit image or 10bit. If you get as close to the final image as possible in camera the advantages of a 10bit 422 source file for general post processing start to become less and less relevant. The quality of the sensor ultimately trumps the quality of the output files (which are great on both sony and panasonic to begin with) and downscaling from a bigger 6k sensor to a 4k file seems like a huge advantage to me

When I used to shoot with the xc10 I got some seriously high bitrate 422 files but the sensor performance discarded that advantage. There are things in the processing pipeline that are arguably more important to the final image than the file or "negative" the camera produces if you shoot and expose with the limitations of the codec in mind. All intra at 400mbps might as well be IPB at 200mbps which is still very good but add 10 bits in there and thats even more data the camera needs to assign per stop of brightness. Combine that with LOG recording and you have even less mbps to dedicate to each stop of brightness. The next great update we need to see is raw recording to see the big IQ advantage people are praying for 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fortunately for me I never had any of the IBIS and overheating problems people seem to be suffering with using the sony a6500. I also use a battery grip to move the heat away from the body of the camera ;) 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...