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Jonesy Jones

Craft Camera is coming!

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Here is the thing with HD and 4K, its been done already... show me something new.

In fact, here is a kickstarter project that was successfully finished and is actually selling now:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1203955-REG/z_camera_e1cam3a701_e1_mini_4k_video.html

and it costs $699...

The sensor size has to be better than that to warrant $2899, not to mention high frame rates.

In fact, sensor size and frame rates has to be better than a7sii to warrant $2899 from a relative unknown.

 

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1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

"April the 18th"?? I'm surprised it is not April the 1st.

 

And yes I agree with the above commentator. KineFinity Terra was the big camera announcement of this year .

That's a little premature, considering we're only 1/3 of the way into the year.

The Terra is dope, though.

31 minutes ago, mkabi said:

In fact, sensor size and frame rates has to be better than a7sii to warrant $2899 from a relative unknown.

 

You mean like Digital Bolex, who launched a very successful $3000 camera with no experience and no brand recognition?

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28 minutes ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

You mean like Digital Bolex, who launched a very successful $3000 camera with no experience and no brand recognition?

What are you talking about?

May be the company that creates Digital Bolex, but the name "Bolex" has been around way before they wanted to emulate it in digital form.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolex

http://www.bolex.ch/NEW/index.php

Besides, Digital Bolex were creating a super 16mm, global shutter, 2K, 12 bit color camera... something never been offered before... AND before their time. They were offering something new at the time that they launched the kickstarter...

When was the D16 launched? When is this Craft cinema camera being launched?

What is craft going to offer in HD or 4K that will be different from what is already on the market?

 

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Just now, mkabi said:

What are you talking about?

May be the company that creates Digital Bolex, but the name "Bolex" has been around way before they wanted to emulate it in digital form.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolex

http://www.bolex.ch/NEW/index.php

And, they were creating a super 16mm, global shutter, 2K, 12 bit color... something never been offered before... AND before their time.

When was the D16 launched? When is this Craft cinema camera being launched?

What is craft going to offer in HD or 4K that will be different from what is already on the market?

 

I was talking about the company. 

And maybe wait for an actual press release before shitting all over a camera you know nothing about it. Keep in mind, this is an email sent to their mailing list, not a general announcement. 

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1 minute ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

I was talking about the company. 

And maybe wait for an actual press release before shitting all over a camera you know nothing about it. Keep in mind, this is an email sent to their mailing list, not a general announcement. 

K... K... but not impressed by the email so far...

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The Z E1 isn't really a story telling cinema camera, now. Seems like the Craft cams will be more like a mini RED/Kinefinity/Axiom/BMMCC it seems, atleast somewhere along those lines. The Z E1 is more like a Chinese GoPro with interchangeable lens mount and bigger sensor.

Either way, it's welcome to see more players entering the market. Pushes innovation and lowers prices (same for other parts of filmmaking, be it the Veydra and XEEN cine primes or Aputure light panels and monitors). Of course you're allowed to be very sceptical. I at first joked this was just a social experiment, to see how many people would jump on a newsletter without any big effort and promises, just a hip site... whereas the other cam had more to show for, but you couldn't possibly keep a straight face looking at their website and take them all that serious.

If they're legit, they did a very 2016-job keeping it mysterious and interesting, creating some talk and speculations about it. And to see how fast you can fill a limited amount of perk-reservations will get you (as a company making these) some insight in how it will be received and perhaps adjust production plans accordingly as well as stabilizing a core base of enthusiastic folks and rewarding them with some perks like discounts for giving them their trust and interest. Indeed much like crowdfunding. Which is also a marketing strategy. People just love to jump on something they can support. Take for example the ridiculous Meyer lenses, I bet they would probably sell shit like I imagine the Handevision ones (must be a reason they keep returning as Amazon lightning deal), shouldn't there have been people looking for new exciting hipster stuff. People don't like corporate schtuff, they want a 'brand of the people'. It's basically clever free promotion, getting press, get people talking. PeakDesign probably doesn't need funds or support anymore, but I bet crowdfunding as a medium just sells easier. And putting down a refundable deposit? You know how many people put down 1000 bucks for the all new Tesla 3? A lot. Sure, Tesla is familliar and Craft Camera isn't, but I don't find it all that fishy.

Hey, we'll know soon enough! :grin:

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1 hour ago, mkabi said:

In fact, sensor size and frame rates has to be better than a7sii to warrant $2899 from a relative unknown.

 

It has to be bigger than full frame?Anyway, this will be different because it's a cinema camera. I assume that basically means raw, which neither the a7sii nor that kickstarter camera have. What will set it apart at that price, as a cinema camera, will hopefully be things like mft mount, super35 sensor, built in nds, high frame rates, competitive dynamic range, pleasing image, competitive iso performance, ergonomics. But at $2000, the bare bones bmcc, without hfr, impressive ergonomics, nds, 4k, or s35 sensor, is still a real stunner and worth every penny. For the craft camera, that is an impressive price for a cinema camera, depending on the specs and image. I assume on paper it'll look closer to the ursa mini 4.6k with slightly less resolution, but for less money. So we'll see

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9 hours ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

That's a little premature, considering we're only 1/3 of the way into the year.

The Terra is dope, though.

My statement had an unspoken "...so far" at the end of it. 

As I can't see into the future! So of course something else amazing might still yet come along. :)

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Hmmm, If I was only mailing to potential buyer-groups, I do not want ANY speculation about my business !
They surely must know this would happen and COULD have provided some photographs or more specs ...
OK to keep secretive, but this is an exaggeration and a VERY "shady" sign !  Also I checked jcs' link :
http://petapixel.com/2013/02/25/craft-camera-a-diy-digital-camera-made-with-cardboard-and-arduino/
and it leads to an interesting web-address http://craft-camera.com/ ... much like http://www.craftcamera.com/

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10 hours ago, Cinegain said:

The Z E1 isn't really a story telling cinema camera, now. Seems like the Craft cams will be more like a mini RED/Kinefinity/Axiom/BMMCC it seems, atleast somewhere along those lines. The Z E1 is more like a Chinese GoPro with interchangeable lens mount and bigger sensor.

Either way, it's welcome to see more players entering the market. Pushes innovation and lowers prices (same for other parts of filmmaking, be it the Veydra and XEEN cine primes or Aputure light panels and monitors). Of course you're allowed to be very sceptical. I at first joked this was just a social experiment, to see how many people would jump on a newsletter without any big effort and promises, just a hip site... whereas the other cam had more to show for, but you couldn't possibly keep a straight face looking at their website and take them all that serious.

If they're legit, they did a very 2016-job keeping it mysterious and interesting, creating some talk and speculations about it. And to see how fast you can fill a limited amount of perk-reservations will get you (as a company making these) some insight in how it will be received and perhaps adjust production plans accordingly as well as stabilizing a core base of enthusiastic folks and rewarding them with some perks like discounts for giving them their trust and interest. Indeed much like crowdfunding. Which is also a marketing strategy. People just love to jump on something they can support. Take for example the ridiculous Meyer lenses, I bet they would probably sell shit like I imagine the Handevision ones (must be a reason they keep returning as Amazon lightning deal), shouldn't there have been people looking for new exciting hipster stuff. People don't like corporate schtuff, they want a 'brand of the people'. It's basically clever free promotion, getting press, get people talking. PeakDesign probably doesn't need funds or support anymore, but I bet crowdfunding as a medium just sells easier. And putting down a refundable deposit? You know how many people put down 1000 bucks for the all new Tesla 3? A lot. Sure, Tesla is familliar and Craft Camera isn't, but I don't find it all that fishy.

Hey, we'll know soon enough! :grin:

 

1 hour ago, TVDino said:

Hmmm, If I was only mailing to potential buyer-groups, I do not want ANY speculation about my business !
They surely must know this would happen and COULD have provided some photographs or more specs ...
OK to keep secretive, but this is an exaggeration and a VERY "shady" sign !  Also I checked jcs' link :
http://petapixel.com/2013/02/25/craft-camera-a-diy-digital-camera-made-with-cardboard-and-arduino/
and it leads to an interesting web-address http://craft-camera.com/ ... much like http://www.craftcamera.com/


This whole Craft Camera thing outlines some very interesting facts, namely:
1. That there is STILL a huge market for newcomers, especially in the $1000 price range (give or take $500), especially for cameras that have RAW or ProRes, and reasonably high dynamic range (12+ stops). 
2. If they have Global Shutter, then that's like a Huge advantage.
3. Like I said on some other thread, the BlackMagic line opened up the professional market for others, and at this price point, the market is still pretty much waiting to be flooded with more cameras.
4. People can learn from the mistakes of everyone else, and stick to the basics, namely, a universal mount size (M4/3 or canon).
5. Have decent sound on board. It doesn't have to be excellent. 
6. The form factor isn't that necessary, as long as it doesn't weigh a ton, and it is made for having accessories.
7. Early adopters and crowdfunding platforms really help.
8. Letting Film-making Blogs test it, also helps in a huge way, especially with regard to publicity.
9. There appear to be so many codecs that people can pick up, literally off the shelf, so I wonder what stops them from picking up ProRes or Cineform (some versions are free, apparently, so I guessing that should be explored), apart from the various versions of RAW. 

Craft's Vague Website, with absolutely no information, only makes things more suspicious, I guess

I have always wondered how expensive M4/3 and APS-C sized sensors cost, as well as cameras, to mass produce. 


 

CRAFT_Camera.jpg

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19 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Dude, as will they. Monday. At 12pm EST. Are you not seeing that in the email?

If I release an email, will you send me $500 as well? I "promise" you will get it back if the camera doesn't happen (unless my company runs out of money after spending all the development $$$ on wine women and song first- then your "deposit" poofs)

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32 minutes ago, tugela said:

If I release an email, will you send me $500 as well? I "promise" you will get it back if the camera doesn't happen (unless my company runs out of money after spending all the development $$$ on wine women and song first- then your "deposit" poofs)

But they're not asking for the $500 now...they're saying "if you're interested in being first in line, have $500 ready for the day of the official announcement." 

Critical reading skills, people.

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1 hour ago, tugela said:

If I release an email, will you send me $500 as well? I "promise" you will get it back if the camera doesn't happen (unless my company runs out of money after spending all the development $$$ on wine women and song first- then your "deposit" poofs)

Ummm, yawwwwwnnnn - that's the kickstarter/crowd funding risk and has been discussed numerous times above. They didn't "release an email", they're announcing a new camera and nobody knows jack about it. It's not like they have a gun to anyone's head. 

There's certainly room for a cinema cam (vs. a stills cam that shoots video) in the $1k - $2k range. Do it right and you'd sell a lot of them. Look at the NX sensor - it's certainly capable of doing much more - prores or raw, etc. We're seeing leaps in this sort of power every year. For me, nobody's done it quite right. I want the features of the ursa mini, with affordable media, global shutter, gobs of DR and so on. I want 120 fps @ 2k and at least 60 at 4k, that doesn't seem so big in this day and age. I don't want a camera that I can't white balance (so there goes several of the more affordable BMCs). We've watched Canon and Nikon disappoint us year after year, we've seen Samsung show us what's possible with a clean slate (as flawed as that camera is, it's an amazing amount of power for the money). It doesn't seem that impossible that someone could release "the" camera everyone in that range has to have. I just waded through gobs of 5D footage from a (supposedly) pro media shop, and - ehh. But the 5D was the thing for that kind of work for years. Time for a new one.

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For a laugh, i'll break down this email from a salesman's/ executive producer's point of view.

"Greetings!
- denotes all times of day and suggests something festive is entailed.

Yes, we actually exist and have a voice.
- you don't know who we are but you did at some point, but you have forgotten.

We are incredibly grateful and humbled by all the support.
- OK, even if you don't remember us, everyone else does. (Classic 'humblebrag').

And because of that, we are only sharing the following email to you—our early adopter email list.
- FYI, you are special and unique and part of a private club who got in first. Aren't you lucky?

We have looked forward to sending this email for months. You should know that we will not publish this anywhere else. That means you are the first to know.
- you owe us your attention because we have invested a lot of time on this product exclusively for your benefit, and you have such a unique opportunity here because we haven't told the world about it yet because you are our favorite person. When we tell everyone, we can't make any promises on your VIP status.

I bet many of you have wondered, “What’s the deal with Craft?" There has been an outpouring of interest for Craft from all over the world and from all walks of life—from Hollywood, indies, corporate marketing departments, agencies, and amateurs. They have reached out by the thousands trying to figure out what we are working on.
- (more humblebrag) My lord, have you been missing out!

For over a year, we have been developing the Craft Camera—a new system that we believe will help users tell better stories.
- we have developed a system to make you a creative genius, you are a craftsman and we are called Craft, geddit?

On April 18th around 12pm EST, we will announce Craft Camera on craftcamera.com. This announcement will include initial information, a first glimpse of the Craft Camera, and we will start taking initial reservations.
- Sshhh, listen, here are some hard facts. We are committing to a time and place for one time only. We will blow you away with a few seconds of footage and allow you to give us your credit card details, BUT only if you are on time and in the right place.

Since Craft Camera is still in development, we won’t be releasing every single detail because we hope to get feedback from reservation holders before we publish final details.
- in case you aren't impressed, don't worry, you haven't been given all the information and glimpses yet, be patient and get in line anyways. We will figure this spec stuff out eventually once we receive enough complaints to warrant changes.

A reservation will require a $500 deposit, your name, email, and phone number. Reservations will only be available on craftcamea.com and will be 100% refundable. Your deposit will be deducted from the total price once you place an order at a later date.
- (classic close) Absolutely no risk involved. But wait there's more...

As a reservation holder, you will also receive a 10% discount off your final order along with some additional perks like first looks, priority reservations on future products and a few other surprises.
- (classic time sensitive bonuses)

Please note we are offering a limited number of reservations which is why we wanted you to know about this first. This means when we hit our limit we will stop taking reservations. No exceptions. The reservations are first come first serve and when the cameras ship, we will do so in the order that the reservation was placed. 
- remember, this deal is exclusive to you and time sensitive. This is urgent!

The Craft Camera comes in 2 models. There are 4K and HD models with a price range between $699 and $2899 depending on the configuration. Initial units will ship late 2016.
- (actual information, vague, but actual information). Comforting because facts make you feel good, right? But not to many or you will commit from informed deliberation rather than impulse, which is not cool for us.

I will leave you with this—we believe there is a huge need for Craft Camera. We believe it is a revolutionary product that will give production alums a great tool to do things they couldn’t do before while opening up storytelling through motion pictures to a whole new generation.
- (rehash of making you a creative genius theme) You will have an advantage amongst your peers. You will be Spielberg, or maybe Jim Jarmusch... at the very least.

With that said, we understand Craft Camera might not be for you and...we are fine with that! We will still treat you with respect and we hope the same from you.
- seriously, no pressure.

I am truly humbled by all the support, and I hope you become a part of the Craft family.
- (humblebrag,) we have heritage and will be around forever.

Keep telling beautiful stories.
- we are on your side, you artist you *pinches cheek*. Monies? What's that?

Scott Brag(g)
- Mr. S. Humble...

Founder of Craft Digital Systems Inc. "
- the absolute boss and the ducks nuts.
 

That was fun (for me). Having sold stuff from Kirby vacuum cleaners to tvc airtime, its a trip down memory lane. I wouldn't touch this kit with a ten foot pole. A bit too sleazy for me.

If it's a young company then I would ditch the bullet-benefit-close-bonus approach and just talk about the things you are trying to solve for your target demographic. Visuals, ergonomics, mobility, compatibility... etc. (even if its just your intentions, with no hard specs to announce)

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28 minutes ago, HelsinkiZim said:

For a laugh, i'll break down this email from a salesman's/ executive producer's point of view.

"Greetings!
- denotes all times of day and suggests something festive is entailed.

Yes, we actually exist and have a voice.
- you don't know who they are but they are suggesting you did at some point, but have forgotten.

We are incredibly grateful and humbled by all the support.
- you don't know us, but everyone else does. (Classic 'humblebrag').

And because of that, we are only sharing the following email to you—our early adopter email list.
- you are special and unique and part of a private club who got in first.

***************************** And so on ***************************

Keep telling beautiful stories.
- we are on your side, you artist you *pinches cheek*

Scott Brag(g)
- Mr. Humble...

Founder of Craft Digital Systems Inc. "
- the absolute boss and the ducks nuts.
 

That was fun (for me). Time for bed.

:glasses:
He, He !   I didn't need to read it all to recognize the "Nigerian-style" :grin:   And I can only agree and repeat my arguments :

"Hmmm, If I was only mailing to potential buyer-groups, I do not want ANY speculation about my business !
They surely must know this would happen and COULD have provided some photographs or more specs ...
OK to keep secretive, but this is an exaggeration and a VERY "shady" sign !  Also I checked jcs' link :
http://petapixel.com/2013/02/25/craft-camera-a-diy-digital-camera-made-with-cardboard-and-arduino/
and it leads to an interesting web-address http://craft-camera.com/ ... much like http://www.craftcamera.com/"

We want to believe in the CHEAP RED (even RED knows to use this !) & the PROMISED BLACKMAGIC !  (Unintended dirty :blush:)82a6d0770aeaafbae8f26bf40a822b9b79a5c412.png

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