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Why do I like the look of the Canon 1D C and Blackmagic Micro Cinema so much than the Ursa, F55, FS7, and C300 mark ii?


Ed_David

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1 minute ago, Ed David said:

that stuff all looks great,

but I still think they could get that with the BMPCC.

We are seeing beautiful grade and the lenses.

I don't know how much of a difference - has someone shot test charts with both to see.

Doesn't the form factor of the camera scare everyone - I guess if you just put it on rails then it's okay

Ive shot with both at the same time and it's definitely the bmpcc that has the wierd form factor of the two. The D16 is the BMPCCii or URSA Micro imo.

And its not just grade and lens. At least not in close ups, imo.

I can get you tiff files with charts tomorrow. Have to sleep now.

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I have been shooting on BMPCC for years and have had some great experiences with the Digital Bolex. Sure its a really odd camera but there is some sort of mojo about it that can't be explained. Its go

Where pots of gold hide and unicorns roam. 

Remember folks that LENS choice has a HUGE impact. The 4k cameras can very easily suffer from TOO sharp an image. That's one reason the NX1 usually dosn't look nearly as smooth as the 1DC or the BMP

Posted Images

2 hours ago, Bioskop.Inc said:

Spike Lee has been using it, but I suppose he means shit to people!

1. - Spike Lee is an astounding film maker.

2. - That Digital Bolex is amazeballs. I have seen people put up footage where the people's skin not only looked incredibly natural, but the realism of the skin tones was so great that it looked like the subject was a little person living for real right there in my monitor. Like I could just reach over and touch their face. I have never seen that out of any other camera. It's UNCANNY.

Yes, it IS a cameras that requires one to learn some pretty specific methodologies, but I think the results are worth it.
Just rip the stupid handle off the bottom as soon as you get it. You don't want to be Zachary Zapruder.

 

3 hours ago, mercer said:

Sadly, there may be just as much of a chance of seeing a unicorn as there is that the BMMCC will be released before NAB. 

Now, I'm not saying you're wrong... I just happen to know that you're wrong. 
I'm also totally NOT saying that a couple hundred finished URSA Mini 4.6k's are ready to go out to the earliest pre-orders.
I'm not saying BMD isn't always late with their new models - I'm just saying they all have eventually been delivered. 
Well....it's eventually.

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5 hours ago, Ed David said:

It just looks like the DB is going to break at any second, that it's some fischer price kickstarter invention.  

I don't know if the BM micro is out yet.

Its all metal, so I doubt it would break before a DSLR and those seem to hold up. 

1 hour ago, DPStewart said:


Just rip the stupid handle off the bottom as soon as you get it. You don't want to be Zachary Zapruder.
 

Nooo :)

Shooting with a pistol grip on a bmpcc is actually nice. And I think it will be very popular on the Micro as well. Dont let your shots get ruined because of looks. If people have a problem with the looks of your gear, just show them the footage.

5 hours ago, viranikenya said:

Where can the BM micro cinema be bought?

Technically you can buy it anywhere. Delivery on the other hand. That might take a while.

7 hours ago, Inazuma said:

How come you ended up selling your D16 Mattias? :o

I sell all my cameras all the time. I enjoy trying new once and it makes me money :)

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1 hour ago, Mattias Burling said:

 

Shooting with a pistol grip on a bmpcc is actually nice. And I think it will be very popular on the Micro as well. Dont let your shots get ruined because of looks. If people have a problem with the looks of your gear, just show them the footage.

 

It's not an issue of cosmetics - It's my observation that that style of pistol grip has a very strong tendency to cause some of the most horrible camera shake ever to emerge out of the Ocean and trample Tokyo.

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3 hours ago, DPStewart said:

2. - That Digital Bolex is amazeballs. I have seen people put up footage where the people's skin not only looked incredibly natural, but the realism of the skin tones was so great that it looked like the subject was a little person living for real right there in my monitor. Like I could just reach over and touch their face. I have never seen that out of any other camera. It's UNCANNY.

Quite spot-on description for image quality!

3 hours ago, DPStewart said:

Just rip the stupid handle off the bottom as soon as you get it. You don't want to be Zachary Zapruder.

I always try to make my 'rigs' Super 8 - like. GH2:

Griff1.jpg

3 minutes ago, DPStewart said:

It's not an issue of cosmetics - It's my observation that that style of pistol grip has a very strong tendency to cause some of the most horrible camera shake ever to emerge out of the Ocean and trample Tokyo.

The DB lacks a big fat eyepiece for three-point-stabilization. That's all. Anyway, the best design had the original bolex:

bolex-h16-eoshd.jpg

Hard to believe, but there hadn't been lots of shaky, er, clips at that time ...

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1 hour ago, Mattias Burling said:

I dont understand at all how a pistolgrip would cause any significant shake compared to just holding a camera like normal.
But if you don't like it thats cool. 

If it's not leaned against your eye (or even if it is in many cases) - watch your hand when in that position. You hand is extremely free to make unrestrained movement in ALL directions. And when one has the gripping axis that close to the camera then any TINY movements of your hand can easily be 1-3 degrees - and that is enough to translate to huge amounts of shake in your playback.

Think of a lever and your radius. This is the stabilizing principle behind a "Fig Rig". The further your hands are from the base of the camera the more amplified a 1-3 degree movement is - to the point where it's like a whole inch of movement by your hands if they are wide apart. And that is obviously much easier to avoid. What's easier to do - prevent your hand from moving 2cm? Or prevent your hand from moving 2mm?

I looked into it when the Digital Bolex was released and immediately saw that a huge amount of the videos posted had massive ugly "1960's looking home movie camera" shake. It's a type of shake that is unique to pistol grips. 
This was a big part of why everyone quickly labeled the D.B. a "retro" camera. It was the yellowish and magenta colors a lot of people were getting, and that very specific type of shake. A type of shake really not seen since the 1960's and 1970's. It's all over the Zapruder film of President John F. Kennedy getting shot. It makes the film almost unusable as a historical record. Shake ruins shots. 

When you hold a camcorder or a DSLR style body - the weight is obviously pulling against your hand/wrist/arm on a flat circular plane to the left. That's just gravity becausae you're holding it from one edge. This sets up resistance for your muscles to start working with and against and thus starts to minimize some of the possible directions of free movement that will characterize the look of a pistol grip.

So if you ever WANT to simulate 1960's or 1970's home movie footage - use a pistol grip!  It will add an element that is very difficult to simulate otherwise.

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I just don't see how a camera snug tight against your body with 5 points of contact if using an evf would shake much more than a DSLR with 2 or Mirrorless with 3 (evf). Lots of films where shot in the 70s on the original Bolex with the Pistol Grip, they aren't shaky.
Its not like Youtube is full of super stable home videos. All home videos are shaky regardless of what camera is used, plus jello.

(BTW, now its getting worse, people are starting to use gimbals... Personally I hate that floaty thing when it doesn't have a purpose.)
 

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3 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

I just don't see how a camera snug tight against your body with 5 points of contact if using an evf would shake much more than a DSLR with 2 or Mirrorless with 3 (evf). Lots of films where shot in the 70s on the original Bolex with the Pistol Grip, they aren't shaky.
Its not like Youtube is full of super stable home videos. All home videos are shaky regardless of what camera is used, plus jello.

(BTW, now its getting worse, people are starting to use gimbals... Personally I hate that floaty thing when it doesn't have a purpose.)
 

I'm with you Mattias. I use the BMPCC with a K3 pistolgrip/shoulder mount & its just fine - the minor movement you get feels real, rather than that floaty footage that produces a fake irreal effect.

This is an example of what you can get - all handheld (yes even the wide shot!).

NB. I'm not plugging me or this group - since they've just screwed me over on a payment on a short doc I did for them! (no money, no doc! And i'm on the dole again!):

 

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Bioskop, very well done.

Only after I had bought a gimbal myself - the Ronin M - I came to realize of how little use it was for me. Another example of terminator vision (I used this term on poor color depiction in another thread).

And there is another aspect your clip demonstrates: lowlight abilities. The whole thing is rather dark. Could have looked a better lit place with the A7s. Now I see (to quote Bloom) the problem with that. Because obviously the place was rather dark. And the Pocket renders the backlight very naturally as well as the shadows (which are called depths -Tiefen - in german. And that's how they appear: deep).

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