anonim

11 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

It's called having an opinion and letting others do the same. I don't bash people because they are from another country like you do. 

How's ever heard of having hard feelog toward another country because camera gear cost less in that country? You still didn't answer what country you are from or live in.

Hey, you win and already destroyed my pretending mask behind was hidden (but not anymore) my hate on S1H, Panasonic, your grandfather, your country and you (and much more that you so generously don't like to make public). But, please, can we make some reconciliation, can you find some mercy dealing with people that have no such great insights, knowledge or reason to be proud on their family origin, success, on so clean and glorious national history or so? As you probably saw, I'm not the one here that feel uncovered in our inferiority and bad motivation under laser beams of your mind... so could you be so kind and forgive me and other our mistakes, and keep up with more gentle addressing?

41 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I know you got the Pocket recently, did you get rid of the GH5?

More precisely, I'm still waiting that Pocket being delivered to friend of my in UK (she wrote me that vendor informed her not before 10. јuly). Yes, unfortunately I had to sell GH5 for funding Pocket, especially while I'm occupied with other type of so-call creativity. But, depending of next type of my camera works involving, I can easy buy GH5 again... Having at the moment idea and attempt  to motivate some combine younger crew for filming, while also having free access to some great scenery and locations - my estimation is that RAW possibility and crowdfunding paper with provided specs closer to cinema standard, at the moment is more important for such plan than keeping GH5. (Although there's no doubt that indie feature film equally could be made with GH5 as well as XT3.) More decided factor is sentimental connection with Voigtlanders  Having trough times all kinds of set-lenses, I'm so unwilling to sell them  But I have DoP friends from whom I always could  borrow, say, Leica R's (that I sold to them once upon a time). 

22 minutes ago, Geoff_L said:

Guys, you should not answer, seriously... he killed the z6 forum post with the same attacking, illogical-disturbing  behavior, like a palladin jumping on everyone for... hm, yes, good question, why ?

The manual to handle the guy is in the name : "skip".

Problem for me is that that guy - so lovable living inside of its own movie Knight-against-Gorgona-type-of-enemies with dozens heads - is so almost innocently funny, and that I so greatly appreciate this forum also as some sort of relaxation resort zone  But I'll of course retreat, respecting others (bloody China's or antiprogressive or past technology's or so agents).

1 minute ago, Video Hummus said:

Dude, chill out. What is your problem. Why does it bother you people like the GH5 and use it to create quality content for two years. Did the GH5 steal your girlfriend/boyfriend? Based on your posts you seem like an angry person.

Maybe I can help. From mr Skip77 logic, GH5 is system of the past, and as such, people who still love and use it simply hate progress, of whom mr Skip77 feel himself as protector, because he knows what is road map and future - as well as GH5 relict-pensioners, being metaphorical ghosts from past, don't know anything about path to the future, and so they represent certain iteration of dark force against which mr Skip77  always remonstrate bravely and resolutely. As such defined haters, GH5 users deserve special treatment against their contamination influence.

GH5s is not geared for everyone... including reliable/credible information of century by Mathew Frazer (2:40) : it gets 2 stops more DR in comparison with GH5 approaching 14 stops of latitude, which is high end cinema camera territory...

4 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I think the Panny S1H might end up be the bargain of the year for all it could, and might have when it finally comes out. We could not of dreamed of a camera like this 3 years ago. I think you are underselling this camera by a huge amount. Sure I can't afford it, but if you can this thing is an industry game changer the way I see it.

This camera is going to become the new norm down the road. Panasonic has given us a gift with this announcement. Every company is going to have to pick up the pace big time to match it, let alone beat it. Not counting the CS from the S1 cameras is to die for.

I'm always really glad to hear speculations totally opposite to mine, given from equally well-intentioned angle   Actually, we may easy agree that S1H might end up as bargain of the year (but not for 4000)

23 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

I bought the GH5S before the P4K was released. I’ve said many times Panasonic needs to give GH5S a bit of love with firmware updates and perhaps a price drop. Because who would buy it when the P4K has BRAW and internal ProRes?

In my uses, like shooting in rainy conditions, and blowing wind in Iceland and Norway, the P4K would have been toast.

Even more to feel sad, GH5s has so great updating potential (external codec possibility, true 2k, probably with at least 24p RAW), and had so better starting advantage position over Pocket 4k or Zcam, at least half a year monopol in cine m43 market and possibility to redefine price accordingly...

So, to sum up - weighting and rethinking price level could be sign of worry, devotion and truly best wishes for concerned camera... Actually with better friendliness attitude than blindly justify and applaud  to every favorite camera manufacturer's decision (even suicidal one :)...

And now jump to 4000, again without IBIS... I'm afraid those who in theory would buy it for 4000 as B camera, must have budget close to 20000 just for two cameras and base adds, and that's rather category for comfortable renting what-need-to-high-paid-job.

Regarding question of A or B cameras, for my recent goal - struggling to organize team and budget for feature film - presence of RAW capability pop upped as the must one, of course because of the highest margin of production compensation possibility and flexibility in post. Depending of situation, I'm keeping on radar, as reachable, two offers of UMP4.6k mk1 nearby for around, I hope, 3.5k euros with some adds.

8 minutes ago, ade towell said:

I've bought a few things over the years from Panamoz - good price and fortunately not had to deal with their 2 year warranty they offer, not sure how that works - it's imported from Hong Kong so grey market. I have seen quite a few GH5s being used, mainly as b cams to people with Sony fs7 who prefer it to the 8 bit of the Sony a7 series. Nobody I know would use Sony's 8 bit slog for professional use - it is too brittle and falls apart at the slightest provocation. Compared to Canon 8 bit clog which is usable.

Actually, reputation of that few Hong Kong dealers in UK market extremely depends of severe public monitoring, good service and keeping warranty - because of more suspicion they normally gathered. So, as far as my experience go, they are really great and responsive.

As I wrote, GH5s showed 2-3 times in any level of production team in my area, and go back for the sale pretty soon to get most money back because of plan of investment in Pocket 4k. I never heard for anybody that use Sony consumer cameras in production, after initial hype about lowlight usability of Sony A7s. Even A7sII nobody use. I had opportunity to use Canon c100 II just once - my experience image wise and comfort is stunning.

But at the moment I consider BM Micro the most darling camera I ever had or tried

You can buy GH5s for 1500£  with 2 years warranty at panamoz

https://panamoz.com/digital-cameras/panasonic/panasonic-lumix-dc-gh5s-mirrorless-micro-four-thirds-digital-camera-body-only.html

or with 12 months warranty for 1399 at einfin - https://www.e-infin.com/uk/item/3545/panasonic_lumix_dc-gh5s_mirrorless_micro_four_thirds_digital_camera

At the moment you can buy it on "grey market" via eglobalcentral for 1398£ (although eglobal central is legal and extremely reliable shop from my experience)

https://www.eglobalcentraluk.com/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gh5s-camera-body-only-pal.html

as well GH5 for 999£ with 12 months warranty at https://www.e-infin.com/uk/item/3282/panasonic_lumix_dc-gh5_mirrorless_digital_camera_(body_only)

From my region and possibility to buy (asking friends mostly in UK, rarely in USA and sometimes in China for favor) grey market acquisition of Panasonic products is risk that I'm ready to take. Panasonic is so great in that regard, because of unbeatable solidness and quality control of their products.

But recently I bought Pocket 4k with best found legal price of 1100£ in UK - even if exists grey market for Pocket4k  or BM products in general (but it never existed ), I wouldn't dare to buy it there... Simply, in comparison with Panasonic, BM is too unreliable regarding quality control. 

... So yes, GH5s dropped in price significantly pretty fast, but, as I wrote, too late, missing opportunity to indeed becomes a hit, exclusively because of wrong initial price estimation. Danger that, as I see it, is even more over the head of theme of this thread.

SLR Magic MicroPrime 18mm

I firstly like to give a tribute to original idea of @DBounce for such thread. Than maybe suggestion to offer preliminary stratification about primarily intentions and goals of usage. I have zero interest about photography or wedding usage, so my preferences greatly differ from people whose usage rely more on such different goals.

6 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Not sure if the GH5S was a disaster in sales. It hasn't seen a big drop in price like the Z6 has in a short time. 

I'd point to GH5 as a pattern of well balanced expectation and probably already deserved status of rare legend. But everything changed with Panasonic's calculation with GH5s that came almost year after, with price that inaugurated steps of +500, nothing less. Why I'm still on thread about no existing camera with just hook thrown to users - is to express worry and respect for Panasonic GH2's spirit. I was eager to buy GH5s, idea of make a pair with GH5 is clever and nice with their specs that complement but not surpassing each other - but  price was restrictive, tolerated just from those who can afford curiosity, who can immediately return expense etc. - but that's the moment where Panasonic lost balance with lower base or more need-to-move-fast base of indie filmmakers, staying stubborn while witnessing enormous success of Pocket 4k in spite of all its expected quirks...

Around me - no one of the extremely rare buyers from industry (planning to use it as B or C or sometimes A camera) didn't keep it longer than year, while still keeping GH5 -  every single one go to Pocket 4k. If I remember correctly, one of the benchmark user with great skill and opportunity whose works I admire greatly - mr Peters - in thread devoted to what to buy next to pair with GH5, didn't choose GH5s in spite of easiness he probably could return expense. How much all of that could be different just if Panasonic placed initial price of GH5s to 2000, showing also in that way that it is complementary camera? It seems to me that Panasonic made rigid long road projection of prices for products on producing line - and stubbornly stay with that projection as leading imperative. My feeling is that GH2's leading spirit was different, govern with more flexible idea of getting users at first place, not taking money form them. 

Look just numbers of pages in thread about P4k and GH5s that are closest competitors as could be... Grounded on fact information about disaster of sale I have, as wrote, just for my region of Europe... GH5s, produced initially in  far less pieces dropped price accordingly to GH5 (but always too late for better sale because of initial level), and at the moment reach around +/-1400 pounds, while GH5 is on the level +/- 1000 p. with 2 years warranty (that's where I can buy them with lowest price). But it is too late - with all enormous number of targeted users who already went with Pocket 4k and patiently/proudly wait their subscribed acquisitions to come. Panasonic even ignore better priced offer from Zcam, company that should be considered as hand made one in comparison with Panasonic mass production capacity.

I know that +/- 500 can be seen as too much or as not so significant. But, there surely exists some interesting threshold tolerance in users, when we started to react psychologically, not just as consumers. That's threshold of perceived treatment and global strategy profile or direction of manufacturers. (Maybe worth to note about direction is that Panasonic priced G90 in level of XT3 and Pocket 4k.) That's threshold when we more seriously start to look around weighting offers of others. I simply worry that Panasonic's dedicated team again makes even bigger mistake with this one 4000 for dream camera announcement. Camera that for months will tiе for itself greatest part of developing resources of Panasonic's division.

44 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

An SLR isn't going to replace a cinema camera but this could easily take the spot of B-cam. Lots of people have used the GH5 as a B or C cam, thats how the GHAlex LUT got created.

I think that will be the production use of this camera as well as an A cam for smaller shoots or run and gun stuff. This is actually the first camera in a while that I am semi excited for.  I think the amount of posts in this thread shows that a lot of other people are as well. 

Again, I think that point of @Coii is strictly tide with price... Every modern top of the line consumer camera may be adapted to be used as A or B. But with higher- than-could-be price Panasonic shrinks possibility that S1cine be used as A camera (in spite of enough comparative characteristics). That's the point of estimation: why don't go little bit closer to route of Pocket4K and catch wider user base, instead of rely on users with pretty elite-like wallet capacity? Why not immediately establish reputation of dream camera between those who are strongest public for dreams - fixing price now as much as could be popular, instead of after several month and bad sale ratings, when, very possibly, new products too arrive? Why with such approach Panasonic forces me to buy Pocket 4K instead of GH5s for double starting price, while I know that at least in my market-region GH5s is, at the end, selling-disaster?

3 hours ago, Coiii said:

I've been following the announcement of this camera and after all the fancy specs that sounds really good on paper, I've realized that, at least for me, this "resolution race, give me more K's stuff" have come to an end. Why? Because if some client ask me specifically for a 6K job I have a lot of better tools than this camera. If you truly need 6K/4K you probably have the budget to rent a RED Dragon/VV/Alexa with far more image quality, lenses, codecs. 

This camera sits in a really weird spot, because $2000/$2500 cameras are really good. But if I'm going to spend $4000 (add 3000-4000 for cages, batteries, monitors and some lens), maybe save some more money and I will instantly start looking on a more capable tool with a real jump on image quality and ergonomics like a C200 or a used C300MKII, or maybe a used RED. All of them with a good "name" for commercial and indie work. Or if I'm going to shoot an indie movie I can rent an Epic Dragon pack for $1500 a week and got far better quality and workflow.

I think that is so nicely elaborated view from practical terrain work and needs. Being so long almost exclusively user (I mean, as personal property) of Panasonic and BM products, what I dislike/worry about, apart of bizarre misty presentation, and as point of mine reaction/speculation, is simply content behind of that quote of you - "But if I'm going to spend $4000 add 3000-4000 for cages etc..." Finally, it seems that except 6k we can take for sure just price level, almost everything else rest in state could-be or couldn't.
Without doubt, always will be somebody that would gladly spend that sum now, but probably Panasonic will very soon correct it as in case of S1. What worry (so to say) or motivated me, is dangerous of shrinking general possibilities in case of Panasonic's bad estimated strategy with FF line.

12 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

My comments are my opinions and that's it.  

You've decided to hate on the S1H, Panasonic, my grandfather, my country and me. And you do all of this while knowing nothing about the S1H, Panasonic, my grandfather, my country and me. 

So call universal enemy of you  With a meds issue... about which I believe you know enough

15 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

Hate and disdain for America... The same kind of hate caries over the how you and they comment towards companies they want to fail. 

so that in itself doesn't deserve the hate driven comments some people are making. 

So poor you sweetywords knight, surround with world full of hate against your flagship opinions  

So as top of the new sort of Rorschach test announcement, now we have to find excuse for such pilot look that could be achieved with any modern camera in hurry, full of crash black sequences (as dancer on the beach), sometimes with erratic focus, actors presented mostly in harsh silhouette mode, washed-black kiss in the dark, as the strange goal is to point to very low DR capacity, all in all everything following total mist of reason to make any conclusion.

Panasonic doesn't even give place for critic, because everything is so comic undetermined from its side... but actually everything is pretty funny experience, at least for me.

I'd call this announcement Rorschach test type, because when looking at such quarter baked prototype product (open to later changes), everyone is forced to add/project personal content (speculation, wishes, fantasies, comparison, fan preferences etc.) struggling to make image enough rich and full for discussion.

But one of the good sides of such Rorschach approach is superior help to faster disclosing someone's level of socialization or evolution as human... as, I'd say, mr @Skip77 brilliantly prove, probably searching at this forum a safe mercy place where will not be skipped (maybe for 78. time after he proudly revealed to someone as also to us such relevant fact that his grandfather has 3 Purple Hearts and is buried at Arlington), with his ingenious USA-superego-of-the-world or Panasonic-as-dream-pistol projection/vocabulary of frustrated aggressiveness.

1 hour ago, Mmmbeats said:

The footage is well shot, lit, and graded, but am I the only one surprised at how soft it looks generally?  I know clinically sharp is not an ideal to chase anyway, but the majority of the footage on that compilation looks soft and mushy to my taste.

I noted the same immediately, there are even problems with slight defocusing. (Even nothing to say about choose of actors/dancers and coreography in comparison with some other promo clips, say for Eva 1.) For me, at the moment pretty disappointing, especially keeping in mind pompous advertising of cine dream result. Maybe interesting to remind for comparison

https://vimeo.com/234811303

I'll be modest and minimal - at this moment: update from any manufacturers of Pocket 4k specs and accordingly proportional price for improvements that include absence of fear of bugs, internal SSD slot and 1000 nit flip screen... it will not hurt if olympusian IBIS would be also there.

It would be nice if they could at least provide focusing properly thorough this top of the consequent mess of whole presentation... So, this is for Panasonic result that proves character of FF dream camera?

10 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

I kinda feel bad for people that aren't using beautiful vintage glass because they don't want to shoot without auto focus. I love my Minolta lenses! They're affordable, well made, and sharp! 

Really without irony, I actually admire people that use AF lenses - every time I tried that, I find myself as stupid without possibility to directly communicate with lens... Also without aperture ring I'm lost. I feel lens as manual painting instrument - I sold nice collection of Contax Zeiss just because Leica R's set feels better in that regard

4 minutes ago, PrometheusDM said:

One of the reason why I'm active in this forum more is there are so many knowledgeable people. Most people stay objective unlike some toxic website that cater to a particular brand.

Competition is good for everyone. Whether you like Panasonic size, ergonomic, price, it's good that they are pushing the industry forward and should be commended - best EVF, best IBIS, 4K30 internal vlog with XlR audio all for $2000 I paid for it, -6EV, and great sensor.

If you consider what the S1 bring for $2000 that's crazy value compared to 1DXII or 5DIV days. I had a budget of $3500 for a new camera, and I got S1 for $2000.

There are some improvement I wish Panasonic do which is AF and eyeAF similiar to Canon & Sony. They also need better MC-21 EF-L to support AF-C. They also need to make the camera about 15% smaller. Otherwise I'm pretty happy I got the camera for $2000. It's the best purchase I made in the last 10 years. I sold my 5D IV for $2000. 

I'm glad and agree... just I'm little bit sad (and don't like at all) that buyers in USA have privileged price and offers in comparison with rest of the world. Also, I just can't quite understand voices that are in hurry to affirm any starting lust-price decision as "normal" or adequate, using endless argument of fan battles. In my mind, we all are cooperative and corrective force. As it can be seen, few months after S1 reached shops, price and offers are significantly changed... What than is the feeling of those who talked about appropriate initial price as they are owed to be manufacturer's ambassadors...

Just now, PrometheusDM said:

Or Sony is deadly afraid of Panasonic.

Now that a $2500 Panasonic S1 offer free MC-21 and free VLOG update with internal 4K30/25 10 bit, 4K60 10 bit external. How will A7SIII exceed it for much higher price especially they got push back due to heat issues? Panasonic S1 will even cheaper when A7SIII is released. Panasonic is able to do this with a bigger body, can Sony do it for unlimited recording and similiar features?

What I'm proud for is reaction of user base, including this forum. Passion and seriousness, in spite of different angles and voices, I think that make serious corrective impact. It seems that S1 price now is mostly in the acceptable and balanced frame for those who, whatever the reason be, need FF - all of that exclusively due to corrective force of market.

14 minutes ago, KnightsFan said:

Yeah. Maybe they wanted to beat Sony in announcing the A7s3, but wanted to be able to change specs later on in case they get outgunned.

But also, development cycles are getting a lot faster. You see it especially with software. You really have to have betas these days, or the market changes before you can finish a feature.

Yeah, new epoch... What seemed to me as BM's bizarre 9 months beforehand annunciation, now look extremely honorable in comparison with this mode of misty agony of uncertainty оf what to creep, how to charge, with firstly roadmap of paid upgrades now suddenly free (but just somewhere, so making selection between areas) because of obvious disaster of selling.