anonim

Just now, KnightsFan said:

In the updated newsshooter article, Panasonic reps said they have not yet decided if 4k60 will be cropped or full frame. https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/06/01/panasonic-s1h-full-frame-mirrorless-6k-24p/

Annunciation that they have not yet decided... Price is not decided... IBIS yes or no... HDMI out what who knows... Heat safe but will safely stop if heat become dangerous... Not just confusion and disaster, but more and more looks to me as new margin of desperate shameless testing game.

2 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I feel like the GH6 needs to be perfect. I mean I guess if its priced right thats also a big selling point. If it costs $1500 it doesn't exactly need to match a $4000 camera. 

We have no more costs as operational notion - now it is "ball park" as comparative term... accepting guess-what-I-have marketing attitude, I guess it will be ball-parked 3500$ wait-when-it-once-land dream with some paid-upgrade thrills to make game of expectations longer.

So basically theatrical announcement of semi-information and semi-speculations after pompous countdown, waiting to reactions of user base to decide what actually to put in and what to be price - to me it has something as throwing test bone to dogs. Probably I'm too old fashioned about treatment, but that sole behavior made me resolute to bypass it whatever it has for their ?k$s (once it reach my favorite second hand market).

Just now, mercer said:

Panasonic just seems to do weird things... the GH5s and S1H are perfect examples where there are glaring omissions from the higher end model that the lower end model has. I mean seriously... for $2000 more, they can’t give us IBIS?!

I will not bet that S1H will not have it... As I understand Panasonic intention, this poor news is just for testing pulse and reactions of user base -  (And for my taste it is not just poor news, but little bit poor attitude in general.)

3 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

The GH5 was worth every penny at $2000. It was literally 2 years ahead of its time. 

It was (even now is) really cine dream... and last one that Panasonic could play safe, with than unheard 10bit, 60k, proper vlog... still totally safe of others RAW implementation.

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

What part of $2500 for a full frame 10bit V-LOG shooting camera isn't a bargain? The $2000 or the $500? Oh and it is also a kick ass stills camera with best EVF on the market and Super 35mm 4K 60p like an X-T3, but still isn't a bargain?

You are right (except for this thread is about S1H)...actually, maybe it is Panasonic's brilliant marketing idea with S1H: to make S1 looks more as bargain.

2 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

Because it's full frame?

I'm in the camp that thinks full frame is overrated. I'm happy with my micro four thirds loser sensor (™Camera Conspiracies)! 

Meh... necessity (or advantage) of full frame for film making...

9 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

There's literally nothing on the market that can do what the S1H does in its price range. 

But what really is on the field weight and importance of that that S1H so distinctively do? 4k 60p 10bit internal - when it is at any case usage of external monitor the must for serious filming. It looks to me as bodybuilder's case - nice to see once (or more often himself in mirror), but to expensive to keep and feed.

9 minutes ago, mercer said:

If all you shoot is slow motion, then the S1H is definitely worth $2000 more than the S1. You don’t even need IBIS with slow motion. I think the bigger question is if it’s worth the $2500 more than an X-T3 and a Speedbooster?

That's what I pointed earlier (with all love and owe for Panasonic): it (or they) totally change spirit or vision, as being more and more fascinated with Leica. It allows to BM and Fuji (Fuji even as cine newcomer) take youth talented population with shallower pocket, climbing to the aged collectors, without refreshing and expanding base of real cine-(young and newcoming) dreamers...

20 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

 It is out of my price range figuring having a L Mount. 

Actually that's exact problem... Approximately 8 of 10 of us commenting now this Panasonic cine dream camera - surely will not buy it, and we are some example of cine-interested group.. (And that one who buy it, is well aware that will sell it next year or earlier to get, say, new Fuji.) Joking or being fan aside, without discussion there is a nice (but not huge at any rate) progress, Panasonic is solid and workhorse king as it possible to be, but direction that miss massive practical users outside of technology discussion space is dubious for surviving.

We all now that Panasonic can easily make usage of RAW - but it seems to me that Panasonic team doesn't know what line to protect and how to further play cripple-game, balancing something that is impossible to balance today anymore. Kinefinity and Z and BM are too serious now for so easy (autistic) and jauntily-highselfestimating usage "dream" as marketing clickbait - at least for this highly profiled user stratus.

Just now, DBounce said:

Well then why worry about low-light performance? After-all, "cinema" folks light their scenes don't they? But it this camera is priced for indie, solo, run n gun type shooters, all of a sudden such features become important.

Actually it doesn't flip 180 degrees.

Moreover, flip screen goes wonderful together with external monitor... So many times is very interesting move from down to up or vice versa, and both screen in combination of different angles provide exceptional possibility.

Just now, mercer said:

Do we know if this is the same sensor as the S1? And isn’t the S1 a 6K sensor so it’s doing a clean downscale whereas with the S1H, you may get more moire?

I think that those who pay for it 4000$-4500e and put Leica on it - simply will not see any moire (or it will be cinematic one, sort of anew-dreamy).

6 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

True though in terms of image quality the S1H will probably be superior in many ways. Probably little to no moire, 6k retaining more detail than the URSA's 4.6k. The lowlight performance will make the URSA look like a GH1. 

That last claim is, of course, exaggerating... furthermore, cinema (dream) go always with proper light, and non-debayered ISO3200 is great. "Superior" image doesn't mean anything anymore, especially today - somebody search for "filmic", somebody for "sharp" and, actually, UMP4.6 is criticized for being to detailed. (What superior is for me is - RAW, maybe USB recording.)

But comparing proper modern cinema camera with xlr outputs, ND filter etc. with this "learn-how-to-dream-again-and-proper-in-6k" camera is, I think, wrong, at least in term  of filmmaking. Without doubt, Panasonic is indeed nice achievement, but question, after all hype, will be - really, for whom.

Just now, ajay said:

If it doesn't have IBIS (which it appears because they didn't mention it) I really don't get why this camera would be chosen over the S1 other than 6k. What am I missing?

Dream... something the most precious.

Just now, newfoundmass said:

No, there wasn't. 

If it is - as seems - replication of GH line, than why to expect IBIS... We learned from many threads that all serious filmmakers don't use that stupid IBIS that produce microjitters and doesn't allow to put camera on cars...

4 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

This thread is pretty hot right now. For whatever reason Panasonic cameras tend to create a lot of buzz, or maybe there is just a big fan base around them. 

You look at the long ass threads surrounding cameras like the GH2, GH4, GH5 but something like the Fuji XT3 didn't get much attention, outside of maybe a bit on this board. 

Probably because of longer reputation? Anyhow, what's interested (and amuze) me the most, is introduction of brave new marketing vocabulary... First I was quite skeptical about targeted users with this camera+lens combination, but now I understand that Panasonic bring innovation in marketing, calling hearts with first touch of poetry.

(I can't imagine cinema maker that will buy this niche dream and than rigged it instead of UMP4.6.)

Now I wait next dream camera... to start to collect dream team.

I never saw such funny brief-presentation speaker  I think we scared Panasonic and as result there's last minute dumping of price to the lowest strategic level

To me sounds like you ignore Blackmagic Pocket 4k or underestimate number or IQ of those users that will not "find out that movie making requires effort, they will be putting their cameras in back of the closet for their grand-kids to discover". At least we are in different users forum.

46 minutes ago, KC Kelly said:

Sounds like wanting luxury car features for Yugo prices, but no one is selling Yugos any more.

9 hours ago, anonim said:

Thanks... I'll have opportunity firstly to check SanDisk SSD plus used in Atomos recorders. But maybe somebody already tried it also...

31 minutes ago, KC Kelly said:

 I know you can buy a BMPCC 4K for $1000, but once users find out that movie making requires effort, they will be putting their cameras in back of the closet for their grand-kids to discover.

Honestly, especially for this last sentence I didn't quite understand intention of it, but never mind... But sentence about "back in 1970'..." I think that is clear - and that's exactly what is the point... after 1970's came 5DII and GH1/2 revolution, and everything changed in revolutionary way, most important comparative capability/price ratio... Now we are again in 1970's  that you remind at. G90 as consumers type with comparatively far behind specs/potential is 1300$ vs GH2 eight years ago which was less than 1000$ with comparative potential that in blind test, that included specialized movie cameras, misguided Copola. 

Just now, webrunner5 said:

Yeah but you can't sell GH5s for more money than a FF camera is as of now. Even used the GH5s is more than a new FF camera. Panasonic is headed for a disaster doing that stuff. It is only a Very few people that are going to pay that much money. The Fuji XT-3, and now the Canon RS is WAY cheaper, are they better, I don't know, but they are nearly half the price.

Agree, that's what I think also - disaster, chasing just for more money now, losing clear distinctive spirit... even as a cleverer business strategy.

Probably I'm too idealist, but I firmly think that keeping and going on with once upon a time true and enough enthusiastic spirit is the most important. Isn't is so that this very forum started along with art-for-all liberation impulse given with ML Canon 5D II and, even more, with GH2? Comparatively, all movie makers world has been shaken than with quality of these cameras that stay within reach even to students and other talented dreamers... Tones of serious movies were shot with Canon as B, many as A camera (and most directors has to admit that public wouldn't notice if all works had been done with Canon), Upstream  Color was done with GH2 - because these camera indeed were comparatively so capable...  And now, it seems to me that all of us are little bit forgeting our dreamer's past - of course, now we can provide more money, now we can pay more, most of us listening GAS thirst and escaping from bore living - but comparatively equally capable successors of 5D and GH2 today don't live at home of Panasonic and Canon, simply because they don't care for that great past spirit which made them so beloved and popular.

Of course S1H or A7SIII or GH6 are/will be beast - but not  anymore for new generation of young dreamers. And me idealist feel it as a curse.

9 minutes ago, KC Kelly said:

There will be no cheap "consumer" cameras in five years.  It will either be "wannabe professional", or professional cameras.  I know that's harsh, but with smartphones taking over photos and video, limited markets mean higher per unit costs for cameras.

Sorry to ask/remind obvious - what about Pocket 4K?

12 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Well I think one of the main reasons Panasonic gets their competitive edge is they were smart. lucky to have had the GH style camera body to start with, and now the S1 body, both being as some people complain, being too big, large, heavy. Well it is proving to be a god send for Panny as everyone, like it or not, is going to have to come up with a larger body to deal with the excess heat. Panasonic is on a roll, but I still worry their luck is running out. This whole FF field is just Way to crowded to have any of them make a decent amount of money doing it.

But isn't it so that all technology is at market disposal? Matter is just ratio of what parts/knowledge to buy and what to put inside and how much to charge users base for it...

19 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

I am amazed that noone is getting what the market really wants, except BM and Z.

 

Perhaps BM and Z have much more flexible space for pricing, having different origin. Someone has to know anything about specific way and roots of Japan family private business and to assume that, say, fresh news about urgent obligation for Japan to purchase 105 (!) brand new F35 USA stealth aircraft  has not powerful impact on Japan's economy in total and big brand direction and decisions... in this moment of world's political/economic turning point and dangerous turmoil.