anonim

16 hours ago, kye said:

Interesting take from Alex Jordan about the 12K and what it means for the industry.  

TL;DR: BM made a 12K camera that was editable on a laptop because they make the cameras and NLE, so can create their own file formats.  No-one else has both, so this is BM strategic advantage over all other manufacturers who have to co-operate in order to innovate like this.

 

I think Jordan's conclusion is already long ago pretty obvious.  IMO we have to be bored jumpers from one to the next hybrid camera offer or strongly biased to not to see that few years from now BM will probably totally dominate in whole indie (and even above) movie making field. Their price strategy, long foreseeing in decisions, excellent timing (BM obviously will develop several lower iteration of 12k sensor) are so firmly founded. It could be easy that BM is only manufacturer with progressive profit. All in all, T think that BM final vision is enriched and plus-motivated with little bit of nice messianism, which is great - to actually revolutionize, democratize and brought creative process of movie making as whole to unbelievable art-for-all level of easiness and full sequence of  affordability  steps (pretty close high IQ wise cameras + codec + editing + composing +audio VFX).

Say, grateful to J. Brawley's disclosure it is known that Pocket 4K was tool to accomplish one of the crucial task in biggest budget production - shooting erotic scenes in full period drama (so I guess many demanding close ups,  important 'body language' choreographic underlining of plots) intercutting seamlessly with Alexa SXT and UMPG2

https://www.redsharknews.com/john-brawley-interview-ursa-mini-pro-and-alexa-join-forces-on-the-great

2 hours ago, ntblowz said:

Yeah I can't open it too as well 😕

I might planning to get 1 next year with my other friend... time to step up become RED shooter?

 

Shot of guy in jeans at 1:10 looks to me promising. Of course, because of totally wild light it is hard to judge most of shots apart of (absent)RS.

Here, , apart from beautiful model, I see somewhere some very very natural and discrete lovely muted texture rendering of skin, lips and rose color prop -  but, from the other side, also pretty often again more prominent blue cast than IMO should be even counting atmosphere reflection.

 

7 hours ago, jgharding said:

 

 

In comparison with few days ago posted newer promo clip for UMP12K by John Brawley - IMO this one looks ridicule at every level  picture wise. Judging solely regarding provided content, promotional Peter MC's short R5 film looks far better, actually as work of seriously capable tool.

I admit that is out of my grasp how and why Sony PR boаrd may approve such material as promotional for 4000+e video camera.  But I have no the least amount of doubt that. say, Brandon Lee will make some masterpieces with a7sIII.

1 hour ago, Nmccarthy said:

Hard to say much from this comparison because of the lower white point on the red and the different lenses (a clean sigma vs vintage (canon?), so that might be where the softness and cast comes from). Also I couldn't figure out how to see the video description so I don't know how much correction was applied to each

I also can't open vimeo link to see description, maybe there's some explanation for off colors - so I just judge simple about impression of provided clip.

Although I'd never earlier think about Komodo, seeing all that nonsense-price/specs drama about Canon and Sony for video, suddenly that elegant compact Red offer without cables seems more interesting and more logical..

IMO Komodo has strangely  strong blue color cast in this comparison besides less DR and great absence of RS.

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Shameful guy.

I watched out of curiosity, because all story becomes entertaining and symbolically interesting.

Rarely i had so negative impression - affected quasi friendly innocence, obvious contradictory claims with apparent goal not to be caught in easy quoted falsehood, highly slimy and cynically underestimating IQ of public by highlighting that he is not paid (with money directly, but via supported influence), than too long episode of ostensibly domestic stupid humor which has role of pumping illusion of intimacy with youtube spectator... This sugary fake behavior is so favorable in line with modern reign of hypocrisy - I don't know anything about guy and maybe about his other potential merits or achievements, but with such sort of exhibition of еxtremely shrewd fake spontaneity, he really stands out by his sort of (combination of) coating.

If overheat issue indeed is as such reported, whole case looks even out of pure logic and as comic mistake of juvenile-pretentious dilettantism  . I'm probably wrong, but IMO if Canon just took care to provide 24/60p 4k RAW HQ (or even just 24/30p) and nothing more as long with, as it seems, brilliant IBIS and autofocus - they would be praised  by whole video/movie making community. Even such retro capability (and retro capable) shooter as I'm, that never touched autofocus, was highly interested to try this one best of the best autofocus incorporation in combination with first class IBIS...

On 7/22/2020 at 8:24 PM, ade towell said:

I didn’t change these on my initial clips, but I have on these ones...

https://vimeo.com/440479199

Thanks for this note... I don't know what he changed, but difference for me is obvious. Somewhere in these threads my first reaction about first promo clip was that natural transitions of skin tone colors somehow for me didn't look so naturally unnoticed, or 'smooth', as in UMP G2 (especially in black skin tone)... As something was slightly off with some 'jumping' nuances, or fine but noticeable off color casts and lightening decisions... But this one last example is so enjoyable to watch and feel, something almost as paintеd work of portraiture - I mean as with some very rare tactile-illusion quality.

On 7/18/2020 at 10:41 PM, Kisaha said:

Thank you @anonim for the info.

Does anyone have any IR filter/solution to suggest?

Sorry for delay, I've found that the best price/quality ratio have Rocolax filters, say

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROCOLAX-77mm-Optical-UV-IR-CUT-filter-UV-IR-Blocking-Filter-for-camera-lens/173253274325?hash=item2856b32ad5:g:AhsAAMXQUShQ8nk1

For those that aren't visiting BM forum, here is quote of Juan Melara's cheer and ask about gen 5 color science - as mentioned earlier, also with further playing with gen 5, similarity with P4KAlexa lut is astonishing - it seems as that BM engineers took his achievement as pattern to replicate in effect:

"Just spent an hour or so checking out the new Gen5 colour science. The new gamma curve is great. Pretty much exactly what I’ve always wanted from BMD. Top work.
But Captainhook, Blackmagic Design, any chance you could include an option to disable the Gen5 gamut mapping/limiting? Or include a colour space that has it disabled?
A lot of grading workflows require access to the full unconstrained gamut. For example negative film emulation. Currently neg film emulation works so well on BMD cameras as they see and hold onto extremely saturated colours. The results I’m getting on the P6K in Gen4 are as good as any other camera I’ve shot and profiled.
I’ve got extremely saturated test charts shot on the P6K and on Vision3 film and what the P6K sees in Gen4 is pretty amazing. On the Vision3 charts I can see a gradient of red values getting deeper as they saturate, then organically curving towards orange as they reach peak saturation. On the P6K in Gen4 I can see the same smooth gradient of reds as they reach the same end point but with less of the curve towards orange.
In a profiled LUT based match, that organic curve towards orange is easy to achieve. In a procedural Yedlin style match that curve is easy enough to recreate.
But in Gen5, that gradient of deep red values doesn’t exist, as they’ve been constrained and homogenised into a light pink tone. All the amazing colour separation is gone, which makes it difficult if not impossible to accurately emulate neg film. As you can imagine this is slightly disappointing.
If the URSA 12k and the other BMD cameras are expected to integrate into high end workflows when shooting Gen5, make some colourists and colour scientists happy and please allow access to the full unconstrained gamut."

26 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

Sshhh. we want people to upgrade from the G2 and drive 2nd hand prices down.

Same first thought. Smoothness of G2 image is so wonderful... BTW, although it is obviously just promo clip, that JB's skin tone show sequence doesn't look so smooth to me as, say 

9 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

From someone on the BMD forums - ProRes 422 export from Braw sample.

 

I see great similarity with effect of extraordinary Juan Melara's P4KAlexa achievement.

1 hour ago, Django said:

R6 will overheat in 4K60p after 30-40mn & in 4K30p after 40-50mn (depending on FF/S35 modes).

Shouldn't be any overheating issues in 4K24p/25p.

Let's just remember we're talking FF no crop oversampled 4K60p with DPAF in 10-bit 4:2:2 internal.

In comparison, the only hybrid camera on the market that can get close to that is the almost twice more expensive S1H which can only do 4K60p with a S35 crop in 10-bit 4:2:0 longGOP and poor contrast AF... and that camera has active cooling on board!

But where you hear 30-40 and 40-50 min? That lady in OP clip strictly said 30 and 40 min respectively (in theory)... and than, almost as a joke, proceeds with claim that even scrolling through menu system camera accumulate heat! That means, it IMO looks more realistically to turn down strict quote in real field usage... I'm afraid 30-20 min for 4 4k60p and 40-30 min for 4k30... all of that without raw flexibility.

Actually, I'm more concerned about those notion of inevitable cumulative effect of heating. (Also I'm little bit more interested about info of comparative DR). All in all, it seems very hard to use even R6 as reliable camera.. of course, Canon colors and grading SOC easiness are pure delight and IBIS is so great to have! What a pity... plus that damned miniHDMI connector, I must have external 7 inch monitor for manual focusing 😞

Oh, there's really no reason for childish fan generalization sort of like/dislike - most of us don't complain at all, nor anything here deserves any such emotion (at least from me). It is quit possible at the same time to enjoy in coming of advanced technology and to note some common sense problem in real world usage... what exactly motivated this thread, as far as I understand.

After all arguments, critics and applause for effort or step further in technology, the question, I believe, for most of us interested in matter will be simple: to spend sum of 4-5000 euro here or somewhere else? Judging from my humble criteria of projected opportunities (and zero interest in photography) - at the moment I'd spend this sum just for one really video/indiemovie workhorse, which R5 apparently is not if overheating danger/distraction exists even at base 4k raw shooting level. Someone else (probably with more free money at disposal) will greatly enjoy in different aspects of R5 offer, and it's apparently also well founded choice.

37 minutes ago, Yurolov said:

Here we complain about overheating 8k raw which we all knew would happen. 

 

But as far as I understand, overheating is also danger even in 4k?

I read somewhere that limit in 24/30p is about or less than 30min... and we still don't know if there's cumulative effect of shooting because of bad dissipation. 

But If overheating exists only in 8k, it would be great! (Although for myself I'd rather use two P6k instead... or buy C200B :)

48 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

When it dies in the middle of a shot will the first thought be "I am glad Canon pushed the camera industry forward" or will it be "why did I spend £4000 on this thing which Peter McKinnon said was THE GRAIL CAMERA"?

With my brief indie shooting experience I have to strongly support this simply very logical question. Actually, I'm little bit shocked that anyone who ever worked and depended of group of person (even more if they are don't payed) during project session could minimize or overlook this isolate problem. I have to have at least two BM Pocket 4k camera (instead one 6k) at disposal because of their sort of uncertainty - but it's easy with 1200e camera.

Mr Neumann... shooting even short film with team of  just three actors, and thinking if or not you have 5min at disposal before or after overheating.... come on, really no.

It seems that it would be pretty fair if Canon sell R5 with an stopwatch as added tool, for measuring time of heating and cooling and planning activity regarding that restrictive measure.

Actually, in that wanted (scrupulous and accurate with little bit self entertaining) behavior it seems strangely compatible with Covid 19 time.

All discussion IMO could be summarize - many parts of R5 offer are looking great per se, but usability of sum of them extremely depends of personal decision, personal preferences, tasks, personal character. (And personal valet, of course, which is, as all we know, so often the most important factor of disclosure of personal character.) 

2 hours ago, Super8 said:

You're a sound guy.  Not sure you have a dog in this hunt do you?

I have! - look at this one touching beast with wide open Voigt eye  (Especially regarding sensor size issue, problem with lenses with etc... Sometimes Voigtlander 17.5 wide open indeed approve itself as miracle for indie movie making. Such subtle nuances in color rendition even at f0.95 that allows just natural light and still freely play with shadows... Shane Carruth was not at all naive choosing Voigts.)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10244754/

Camera: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera
Lens: Voigtländer Nokton Series

Horvath: The principle idea of the film was that it was to be shot almost like a documentary. We were shooting over a period of nine months. During these nine months we had seven shooting phases of two-weeks each that involved a very small team of five people. The team was flown in while I was in North America for the whole time. I was driving from New York to Alaska, mostly accompanied by Patrycja Planik, the actress. We were not only scouting for new locations but also shooting a lot. So there is actually quite a bit in the film that just the two of us shot. The image quality of the BMPCC is absolutely comparable to a wide range of more high-end camera options, while its compact design allows for a great freedom of flexibility and spontaneity.

My choice about usable thread orientation - except to be informed that somebody has ingenious idea to use Arri for important shots or that nobody (here or everywhere) except rare connoisseurs never heard about parallax effect -  gravitates towards question about further usage of nice pats of Olympus technology. Being recently in position - regarding task of undertaken project - to choose and act similarly to Andreas Horvath director of "Lillian", I'm deeply interested for further advancement of (at the moment) still unique combination of qualities that for some situations and circumstances (traveling abroad, or shooting into wild area with minimal or secrete exposure conditions, etc.) almost exclusively provide just offer of m43 format camera products. Namely achievement of stabilization/quality both in camera and in 12-100mm lens, marvelous weatherproof solidity of camera. Say, it will be so nice if Dzofilm (or Laowa etc.) could integrate know how of Olympus lenses into next itеration of some great (and cheap because of m43) cine zoom attempts. Or - sorry for repeated idea - if Blackmagic, with its generally so brave choice/concept about not protecting any of bigger format produce, really offer some completely rounded m43 camera, or (to quote A. Reid) true "giant killer".

11 minutes ago, heart0less said:

Not really, it's a very subjective matter. To each their own.
( :

Those darks are low, but looking at it on my screen (just a normal, non-calibrated consumer AOC monitor) I wouldn't necessarily call them crushed.
There is still plenty of detail in his shirt, one can see individual wrinkles on it. Same goes for the window frames - they slightly differ in level, some sort of depth to them was preserved.

Thanks, it's ok if detail are there - on my screen (let's pretend it's not guilty of my eyes) I see just detailed grain

On 6/26/2020 at 4:39 PM, johnnyBeee said:

Quick Screen grabs from Lens testing Today.

Superb Kipon Mamiya 645 Speedbooster with the Mamiya 55mm F2,8. 

All handheld wide open.

LUIX S1/Iso 1000, 4K 10 bit. VLOG

 

Sorry, it really must be that I'm little bit blind or incompetent (or both), but - what is so special or distinctive on this shots? On my laptop screen I see so much severely crushed blacks everywhere that even it's impossible to judge DR?

8 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Then they should go to work on the body and make a proper camera, not a potato, and sell for $2000.

Minimum standard:

Build quality to at least Panasonic GH5 or X-T4 level
Large built in EVF like the competition
Fully articulated screen, even if they have to make it smaller
IBIS would be ideal
Fix the battery life. it's completely unacceptable on the single Canon battery
PDAF would be nice

Then we have all the makings of a giant killer.

So, mostly marriage with deceased/resurrected Olympus bride.. of course, with signature inscription "BM Best man Andrew Reid"!

8 minutes ago, Super8 said:

On an important shoot I'm renting an ARRI or RED.

Yes, it seems very important to know... especially regarding thread title

1 hour ago, Super8 said:

Crop factor on the GH5 / MFT is a real issue if you look at from DP's perspective.  

"Crop factor" usage of cameras with obvious issue from DP's perspective... that found their way to different Cannes 2019 selection sections:

MAIN COMPETITION (Palme d’Or Contenders)

- “Sorry We Missed You”

      Dir: Ken Loach, DoP: Robbie Ryan

      Format:  Arri 16mm
      Camera: Arri416 16mm

DIRECTORS’ FORTNIGHT

- “The Halt”

       Dir: Lav Diaz, DoP: Daniel Uy

       Format: 4k
       Camera: GH5S Panasonic Camera
       Lens: 18mm-50mm zoom lens Panasonic, 70mm-100mm zoom lens Panasonic

- “Lillian”

       Dir/DoP: Andreas Horwath

       Format: Digital, 2K, Lossless CinemaDNG RAW — and 4K for the drone footage
      Camera: Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera
       Lens: Voigtländer Nokton Series

- “The Orphanage”

       Dir: Shahrbanoo Sadat, DoP: Virginie Surdej

       Format: Alexa Mini-S16 HD mode/ prores
       Camera: Alexa mini S16 HD mode

UN CERTAIN REGARD

- “A Brother’s Love”

        Dir: Monia Chokri, DoP: Josée Deshayes
        Format: Super 16mm, 7219 Kodak
        Camera: Arri 416

- “Liberte”

        Dir: Albert Serra, DoP: Artur Tort

        Format: 2K
        Camera: Canon C300 Mark ii (crop mode)
        Lens: Canon 11-138 (S16)

OUT OF COMPETITION

- “Let It Be Law”

         Dir/DoP: Juan Solanas

        Format: UHD 3840×2160
        Camera: Panasonic GH5
        Lens: Leica 12-60mm 2.8/4