crevice
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Posts posted by crevice
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6 minutes ago, kye said:
As someone who has shot with a range of budget cameras (including GoPro/iPhone/point-and-shoots/etc) and put many many hours and money into learning to colour grade, I fundamentally disagree with this.
The really expensive cameras with great colour give an image that you can just apply some contrast to and they look fantastic, but the worse the colour from the camera the harder it is to get a good grade out of them. Of course, it's not impossible to do so, but you have to be highly skilled, lucky, or both to get that great result.
The fantastic grade on that short from the Micro has much to do with the camera, even if it was just that the camera wasn't creating an almost impossible task for the film-maker.
Well said. I have personally shot footage with the micro and simply converted with the official Blackmagic LUT and that was enough to make it look spectacular. Even better color correcting just takes it to another level.
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10 hours ago, thephoenix said:
that was my point. it's like every camera is good with this kind of grading, i guess he could have shot it with a gopro or an osmo pocket it still would be good
Not quite. If that was the case, we would all have gopros as our main rigs. I think you are underestimating the colors, dr, and sensor on these cameras. I get your point to a certain degree - good color correcting definitely helps any footage. But this camera has a special quality to it as do most with this fairchild sensor.
3 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:Great thread, may want to clean up the OP as its a little confusing with some confusion between BM cameras. The Micro is more appealing to me because of 60p, and the OG pocket LCD is junk anyway.
Searching ebay for a Micro.....
Chris
i unfortunately can't edit, it won't let me - not sure why that's the case
- thephoenix, BenEricson and IronFilm
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2 hours ago, Patrick B. said:
Ok good to know. Might stick with the Sigma for now then. Curious to compare the 3:1 to lossless raw. Couldn’t find many comparisons online.
I've only ever shot with 3:1 and its been so good that I never even attempted lossless.
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19 hours ago, Patrick B. said:
Will do! Yeah, I’m excited to try it out.
I might end using the CineEye instead of the Focus so I can remotely monitor and control from the OLR app. I picked up a speedbooster but thinking the Lumix 12-35 might be nice for having OIS as none of my Canon primes have any.
Ya, it’s a decent lens. The manual focusing on it is really bad though.
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8 minutes ago, Patrick B. said:
Yeah, apparently. I didn’t realize that either. Look at pic 6.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F323866768893
I confirmed with the seller as well.
Interesting idea. Let me know how it works once you get it. Looks like a great kit you have coming your way. I don't mind the camera having its own NPF though, because it adds weight and helps balance it a bit more.
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5 minutes ago, Patrick B. said:
Thanks. I just checked Amazon and it seems that my 2016 Sandisk card is supported but the 2017 one I bought has the SDSDXXG prefix. Can’t physically tell them apart so guess I’ll just have to test.
The rig I bought has a SmallHD Focus that apparently can power the camera from the monitor’s NPF, but I may end up getting that adapter too. Thanks for the tip!
I use the SmallHD focus as well. I honestly never though of trying to power it from the monitor. How does that work? You use a dummy battery?
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2 hours ago, thephoenix said:
Just to be sure this Is this camera ?
Because that's à pitty to wright such an article and not add any pic of It
That one is the regular cinema camera and though it has great footage, it will be a pain to handle these days. The monitor is not good and the ergonomics are a bit awkward. There is a 2.5k resolution version of the camera above, but I still recommend the micro over it. Micro is easier to rig if you have the parts.. The one you want is this one, which is the micro cinema camera:
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicmicrocinemacamera
2 hours ago, Patrick B. said:Okay @crevice I just pulled the trigger on a Micro rig with the One Little Remote on eBay. I’m blaming you ??
You will love it. Just make sure you get your memory card situation handled. I would also highly recommend the NPF Bridge linked in my original post. Let me know if you have any other questions.
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2 hours ago, leslie said:
hang on a sec, $1200 or $1800 aus are some nice numbers, not sure many can argue with that. after preordering and waiting for five months i'd actually started looking for an bmccog but then i got an email saying the p4k was on its way, so that idea sunk to the bottom of the pool pretty quickly. i think only a complete moron would try to sling off at the earlier bmd cameras as their highly regarded for what they did and or still do.
Not wanting to offend the original poster but his post reads to me like its a bit defensive of the earlier bmd models now that there is 4k and 6k out. Personally i dont think they need defending they can stand on their own two feet they don't need to hold anyone's hand. Am i crying now that i bought a 4k and we allegedly have this 6k beast, not really. 6k is a bridge too far for me. 4k will keep me happy for awhile. 6k will not suddenly turn me into steven speilberg. everyone has to jump in at some point that point for me was the bmp4k. worrying about earlier or latter cameras is pointless. Use what you got.
I think you are correct haha. There is definitely some “defending” in my tone. I think it’s more of “convincing” though to newer folks who are caught up in the resolution war, who might not be aware of the quality this camera can produce.
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57 minutes ago, IronFilm said:
BMPCC OG was announced in 2013, the BMMCC came out two years later in 2015.The Micro Cinema Camera isn't that old! It just feels like it.
Ah, good catch. Yes, I was thinking about the OG! I’ll fix it
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- Popular Post
- Popular Post
Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera Super Guide and Why it Still Matters Today
The Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera was released in 2012. At the rate that cameras are being announced these days, that’s a century ago in the consumer/prosumer world. The camera was released with very little fanfare as it didn’t have a monitor and was marketed as a great companion to drones, head cams, dash cams, sport cams, etc. Some people rigged it up, but for the most part it wasn’t exactly the most popular camera at the time. Though I keep speaking in past tense, this camera is still available to buy today - though with the Pocket 4k and 6k on the market - it’s very unlikely anybody is buying them. As we enter the most competitive market ever for the low/mid tier videographer and filmmaker, I am here to tell why this small unassuming - and rather ancient by todays standards - camera is special and why it could fit well with some of you.
This guide is meant to be a fun way to explore a hidden gem, not to cause a spec war, fanboy war, or any kind of mean spirited debate. It is just an opinion of one person, but something that I have been thinking about doing for awhile. Lets get into.
Brief History
The Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera shares the same sensor as it’s older cousin, the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera. A camera that truly revolutionized the filmmaking world, by giving filmmakers that didn’t have the cash to buy expensive cinema gear a camera that had an amazing cinematic and filmic quality to it. Something that wasn’t found in DSLRs at the time with not only the film look, but also specs. The camera could record internal RAW at a price point that was and still is unheard of. But the camera suffered from many issues. The screen was garbage, there was a lot FPN issues, and most notably the battery life was straight up horrible. Batteries would last around 20 minutes and often times much less.
The Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera shares the same sensor as the original pocket. Its’ a sensor created by Fairchild Imaging, with a sensor called the CIS1910F. Fairchild are a company based out of San Jose, CA. They have created several sensors for Blackmagic, but I believe the new sensors of the Pocket 4k/6k are now Sony sensors. The sensor is important in this guide, because thats where the special sauce lies.
Blackmagic Micro Differences to Pocket
The Blackmagic at first glance seems like a stripped down original Blackmagic pocket. The thing is, it actually cleaned up quite a bit inside the hood. The micro received a new more modern processor, allowing it to clean up some FPN issues and improved rolling shutter. Though not a low light beast, it handles things generally better all the way around compared to the Pocket. When using a monitor, accessing the menus though tedious with its button placement, is much more responsive - where the pocket was a lag fest.
Here is where we get to the good stuff. The micro cinema camera on paper and at first glance seems like a bit of a letdown. No monitor? No cold shoe? No handle? Canon Batteries? But, thats because of how Blackmagic marketed it. They didn’t market it like how Red or Zcam do it, which is a modular camera with a build your own adventure way to build it. They didn't even really offer accessories for it. But that is how it needs to be looked at. You get a brain and you need to add accessories, there is no way around it. But building around it is not as daunting as most people make it seem and once you take the step, you really unlock something special.
Whats the Point of This and What Makes this Camera Special?
I am going to use some overused/misused terminology here to explain how the footage looks and what makes it special. In a current era where modern sensors show every single pore and are mostly made by Sony (with insane modern feats) - there is an organic look about the early Blackmagic cameras (BMMCC, BMPCC, BMCC) that is special and has a very film like look to it, which is what Blackmagic set out to achieve and emulate. This is going back to Fairchild and what they were able to achieve. The look that is ever so popular with almost every young filmmaker and over used on almost every filmmakers youtube titles - which is a ”cinematic or film look”.
Yeah, I know, you want to argue its lighting and lenses and actual cinematography skills that achieves that. You are right. But there are still more tangible attributes besides that which can affect the way a video looks. Color science, DR, a soft look, and motion cadence are 4 keys to getting that look. If you can nail all of those, you get a rather easy filmic/cinematic look out the box. And the Blackmagic micro has all of those and is really the last Blackmagic camera to ever use one of those organic sensors that Fairchild brewed up. It’s also the last and only Blackmagic camera that you are able to buy today that has one of those most special sensors every created for its cheap price and accessibility. . It is a hidden gem and footage from the camera are often confused for cameras way out of its league. It’s a look that modern mirrorless cameras don’t often have, at least not without heavy film grain, pro mist filters, vintage glass, added motion blur, etc. What makes this camera special is not on the spec sheet, because 1080p isn’t going to making you excited. It’s not on the paper that will make you go “wow”. It’s simply with the footage. You can throw all the specs you want. The footage of this camera and the fact that it’s still available today new and very cheap used, is the reason for this entire guide.
Keys To Rigging
You need a cage and an external monitor. There is no way around this. If you don’t purchase or have those, there is no point exploring further. Remember, like I briefly mentioned above - don’t think drone cam or sports cam - think modular RAW capable cinema cam. Smallrig and 8sinn both make cages for it, I have the smallrig and don’t see why you would need anything else. Take your pick with monitor, that is a personal choice, but I prefer something with Sony style NPF batteries.
If you only shoot RAW with this camera (which is what I do) - then you can basically set your settings and forget them. I would leave your ISO at 800 and manage your light with your lens aperture and variable ND Filter. There is no need to go into any menus, other than to possibly reformat your memory card. If you do that, you avoid the headache which is the awkward placement on the menu buttons.
If you shoot pro-res and you want to constantly change settings (ISO, WB, etc) then you will need to either get used to the buttons or buy a second hand “One Little Remote”. Which is a little add on module that can help you change your cameras settings without menu diving.
For battery, you can use canon batteries for about an hour/hour half before it dies. Or choose the best option, which is to buy the NPF bridge (https://www.starvingartist101.com) which allows you to simply attach NPF style batteries to the camera. With this option you can get around 4 hours of battery life on 1 charge or even longer if you opt for the larger style NPF batteries.
A monitor most people already have. And if you shoot RAW, which is kind of what makes this camera special and what I recommend using, then you don’t need to menu dive or you can simply use the one little remote. And if you use NPF batteries you now have a cinema camera that doesn’t require v-mount batteries and can shoot RAW video for about 4 hours. All in an insanely small package with amazing footage. I think thats what gets lost with this camera is that people complain about having to rig it up - but a lot of the add ons are either pretty cheap or you already have. The NPF bridge is around 30 bucks. Cage from smallrig is around $80. The monitor you prob already have. You really don’t need the one little remote if you shoot RAW or get used to the menus.
Memory Cards
If there is one legit complaint, its that newer sandisks memory cards do not work with this camera. Here is the scoop:
“Please note that we have discovered an issue with the newer revision of the Sandisk Extreme Pro UHS-I SDXC 95 MB/s cards that begin with the product prefix SDSDXXG.
These cards do not work with the following products:
1. Pocket Cinema Camera
2. Micro Cinema Camera
3. Video Assist
4. Video Assist 4K
We believe that these new cards have the V30 rating on them.
Currently, only Sandisk Extreme Pro UHS-I SDXC 95 MB/s cards that begin with the product prefix SDSDXP are compatible.”
Though that sucks, good news is that if you have a sandisk pre 2018, it should work. Also there are non sandisk cards that do work. I have tested this one for example: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00X1406EC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and it works fine and with RAW. It is still something that you should be aware of. I got lucky and all my sandisks work.
Speedbooster
There is a dedicated speedbooster for this camera in Nikon or Canon variant. Its called Nikon G to BMPCC or Canon EF to BMPCC. There is a “T” version that has minor improvements, especially to the felt material inside. There are other speedboosters for micro four thirds that will work as well. Viltrox speedboosters also work. The difference is that the specific BMPCC version gives you a 0.58x vs x0.71 or higher crop factor.
Resolution
Let us now address the elephant in the room. This camera does not shoot 4k. If you want a camera that shoots 4k, this is not it, simple as that. But, if you are a person that cares more about the image quality than the resolution, you won’t be disappointed. But lets say you really do want 4k, well, there is another hidden gem that takes this camera one step further. Inside Davinci Resolve is a feature called “superscale” which upscales footage beautifully. And scaled micro cinema footage to UHD/4K looks fantastic. See Rob Ellis' beautiful video on this:
Also even if you need 4k for certain projects, this camera should still be in your arsenal. It’s cheap enough where you can have it along side something like a pocket 4k/6k. Again, the footage speaks for itself.
IR Cut and Moire
I highly recommend using an IR Cut filter with this camera as there is some IR pollution that can affect your image if you dont use one. You can find some for as cheap as 20-30 bucks. There are also some moire filters, like the RAWLITE OLPF, that does IR CUT and reduces moire at the same time. You install this over the sensor and you dont have to worry about using filters, but it's costly. I don’t have too much of an issue with moire - so for most a simple IR Cut filter could be enough.
Where to Buy
You can still buy these new today. But you can score amazing kits on ebay, craigslist, etc. You can often find one with a one little remote, cage, and even memory cards for under $700. Some will even include a monitor. You can legit get a full kit for $1,000 - including every thing you need to shoot and rig it up.
Conclusion (TL;DR)
I made this post because I am a junky of sorts. I buy all the new cameras, fall into the hype traps, and have severe GAS. Every camera I have used lately has left me with a “meh” feeling. Except the micro. Specs can be great, some have amazing autofucus or great color. Some have shit color and shit bitrates. Some are great but the lens system and adapting to it are a pain. And some are plain beautiful but are really expensive. The micro has a rare balance of amazing filmic quality, a lens mount that most of us on here are well aware of at this point, fantastic battery life of around 4 hours with NPF batteries, compact size, legit RAW (not BRAW) to internal SD cards instead of expensive cfast or having an SSD hanging from your camera and its cheap. Ridiculously cheap if you buy used. It also has that old blackmagic special look so many of us fell in love with back in the day and in my opinion is lacking today. It is a hidden treasure in the filmmaking world that is still available new at many retailers. I created this to share and possibly open eyes to what is an amazing camera this is and probably the last of its breed. As we enter the resolution wars with sharper, high res videos, we will slowly be leaving behind that soft organic look. If you like shooting older cameras with vintage glass to get that "look" then you can think of this camera the same way. You do it for the look, not for the specs.
Bonus: Footage!!!
Here is some great content that I believe shows off this camera and what is capable of doing
(All the footage from his reel at the start of this video are from the micro)
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2 hours ago, Patrick B. said:
Patrick - you really shouldn't let the usability turn you away - the only must have is an external monitor - if you have that already, there is no reason to not buy one for how cheap they area. If you need more info or have questions, just send me a PM and I can help assist.
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57 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:
More motion blur? What if you put the shutter speed a bit lower on the pocket to compensate?
Possible. But again, I think my point is simply the eye test. I prefer the image straight out the camera with a quick grade more on the micro cinema than the pocket or any other camera in the price range. Im sure you can add Pro mist, more motion blur, vintage glass, film grain, etc. to get it close.
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19 minutes ago, socs said:
Not to get too off topic but you mentioned the blackmagic micro cinema camera. Everytime I use it I think I should just throw all my other cameras (z6, xt3, etc) in the trash. For me too it has the best look to it by far. But, you really have to work to use that camera with all of it's quirks. Folks say you can soften modern cameras in post, but I've never seen good examples of that to match something like the bmmcc.
I wish BM or another co. would just package that same sensor into a newer body with all the ergonomics and battery life of a modern cam.
I’ve returned or sold many cameras in the past few years and have kept my micro the entire time. I agree with the quirks, but for me they are solvable. For example only shoot raw and manual focus lenses, so I have no need to ever even go into the menus - besides maybe to format a card once in awhile. So the menu buttons don’t bother me. I also have the NPF adapter, so battery life is great. So the micro is more compact, battery life is better, it has in my opinion the better raw codec, and a better filmic quality to it and also records to regular SD cards. Yet, nobody talks about it because of the way blackmagic promoted it as almost a drone only/go pro-ish brain. When in reality it’s an amazing filmic camera perfect for rigging. It’s truly one of the most insanely under-appreciated hidden gems in the consumer/prosumer film/video industry. Also, with resolve superscale - you can upscale it to 4k with amazing results.
120hz only makes it look worse to me. It’s not the motion cadence being bad. Most starting out in the past few years won’t tell a difference. For us old timers, the motion cadence we are speaking of gives a bit more cinematic feel to it. For example the micros motion cadence seems slower, with more natural blur, which I find more pleasing.
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Here are my early impressions of the pocket 6k
- My camera came with scuffs and scratches all over the body. It looked like it has been used for months. Went on FB and saw several people complaining and posting pictures of very bad scratches and even dents all over the body. Check out the official Facebook group to see more info on this.
- Vmount or some other solution is needed. I fall into the prefer pocket full of batteries category, as I like to keep it compact. But I am not even sure I made it 15 minutes before it died with an official canon batter (newest version). It was really bad. I need to do more tests on this. I was shooting 6k braw for what it’s worth
- Motion cadence and overall look still doesn’t really do it for me. It looks fantastic, but it doesn’t have the magic older blackmagic sensors had. Maybe it’s the resolution bump and it’s just the way it is with these modern sensors. So far, nothing in the consumer/prosumer price range beats my blackmagic micro cinema camera as far as motion cadence and nailing the filmic look with ease. I feel cameras now days nail the specs on paper, but they lack feel/organic quality/smooth motion cadence, etc. Often people get up and arms when the word “cinematic” is brought up. Yes you can make cinematic footage with the pocket 6 or prob any camera for that matter. Yes lighting impacts it and proper grade does as well. And yes it’s a term that is overused and misused. But I think their is definitely an organic feel missing from these often sterile modern sensors. Sure you can throw a pro-mist filter on it, some vintage glass, and massage it to look great. The sensor kind of reminds me of my old Red Raven. Which isn’t really a bad thing (or great). Just has a slightly similar look and feel to it.
- Having a dedicated ef Mount is wonderful. Much better not dealing with an adapter.
TL;DR Overall, it’s a great camera and just like the pocket 4k - it’s great when rigged up. Battery life seems much worse than the 4k when using canon batteries - but I need to do more testing. Overall look and feel is sharp and impressive, but lacks an organic quality which can be attributed by slightly video-esque motion cadence, modern sensor, and higher resolution.
- mercer, Patrick B., zerocool22 and 2 others
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Do we know if the new firmware 2.0 will allow us to record 10 bit h264 internally at 400mb or will it be the same 8 bit internal with h264?
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7 hours ago, austinchimp said:
This may be an unpopular opinion but this is one of the first X-T3 videos where I've liked the colour. It seems filmlike but still realistic and relatively subtle.
I've been checking out samples of the footage - I really want to like this camera - but a lot of it just looks like it's been Filmconvert-ed or instagram filtered. I'd love to see some more samples where the colour looks more natural and Alexa-like, if that exists. Not bashing the camera or any of the work posted so far, I love their philosophy and I own a X-T20, just wondering if it's possible to get a more neutral or modern look, while still retaining maximum dynamic range and skin tones.
Thats because most people that own this camera use it as a stills camera and are not videographers, with no clue what they are doing on the video side - but yet - they still decide to upload shitty test footage on youtube. Also, a lot of people are using film simulations with auto white balance, default settings, NO log profile, with incorrect shutter speed settings, no ND filters, and no idea how to color grade. Add that all up and you will get underwhelming results.
Don't let this forum fool you, the majority of people that still by this are long time Fuji photographers who aren't videographers. We are a still a small percentage.
Use LOG with NR and Sharpening and -4 and then throw the Eterna LUT on and tweak it from there and you will see beautiful amazing/cinematic results not seen in many of the mirroless cameras.
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33 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:
Just discovered the XT3 does 400mbps in Long GOP, I am quite surprised. The GH5 and other cameras do 400mbps in All-I but not Long GOP. Should yield some noticeable quality increase.
All-I is better quality than Long GOP. So why would it yield a quality increase?
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5 hours ago, Vladimir said:
of course if its some big scenario case then its always good to have alexa-on-ronin setup. but when u had skill u can scale it on any production and needs. and here some more xt2/crane/18mm combination ( now with ibis stabilized x-h1/55mm):
and with 4k60 and better rs there's even easier to get stabilized results. crane/xt3 is stuning combo in terms of possibilities/$
btw does anyone knows if xt3 output 1080/120 in 10bit over hdmi or not?
Was that entire video shot on the xt-2? Your colors looks fantastic - any LUTs or did you just grade that by hand?
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Just now, webrunner5 said:
Hmm, I don't see it happening. But if it does it would be amazing. I guess that is sort of happening in the GH5. But that is why you need a C Type connection for the PK4. It won't pass fast enough on HDMI.
My guess is that it needs one of those super expensive atomos HDMI 2.0a cables for this to work. They are like 100 bucks. I have tried a few cables I have, but 400 mb/s is greyed out with all of them. I can do 4k 60 200 mb/s though.
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2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:
It Ain't happening.
You sure? This is what it says on the product page on BH:
"X-T3 offers an enticing array of video capabilities, including internal UHD 4K60p video recording at 4:2:0 10-bit, as well as 4K60p 4:2:2 10-bit via HDMI output, both at up to 400 Mb/s"
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Anybody figure out how to get 4k 60fps 400mb/s via HDMI out?
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53 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:
Do you think the XT3 was capable of a good image in harsh light tho? How does highlight roll off compare between the two?
Highlights in general are handled better by the pocket - but the XT-3 held its own. Roll off on the Pocket 4k is better, but don't let fool you. XT-3 holds its own very well and in many cases pulls ahead. The pocket 4k footage was very warm compared to the XT-3. The XT-3 seemed more neutral. The XT-3 looked much more organic and cinematic, which is a combo of a much smoother motion cadence and softer sensor. The pocket 4ks motion cadence is jarring at times when compared to the XT-3, as the pocket 4k has a much more "digital" movement in its motion cadence.
Both are great cameras - but I ended up returning the pocket 4k. To me - having 1 camera that can shoot video and photo of this quality is important to me. As a photographer and videographer, one camera where I go is way better. Also - the auto focus on the xt-3 is great, especially when on a gimbal.
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11 minutes ago, deezid said:
Would love to see some comparisons as well.
Especially skin tones in low light (high iso). Still a bit afraid of skin tone smearing on the X-T3.Do you lower sharpening and noise reduction to -4 (and turn off inter frame nr?)
Great questions - sharpness is all the way down, Noise Reduction is at 0 and inter frame NR is off. Should I turn noise reduction all the way down?
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13 minutes ago, Inazuma said:
Could you perhaps show us footage with your wife's face blurred? It's quite surprising to me that the BM would be miles ahead in DR because the Fuji is no slouch
The highlights in general are better on the pocket, but that’s mostly because of the RAW. Not sure I said the DR in general itself was miles ahead. I am going to run some tests in better lighting and hopefully I’ll be able to share. Both great cameras.
Blackmagic Micro Cinema Super Guide and Why It Still Matters
In: Cameras
Posted
The new Fairchild sensor does 4k at 120fps according to their spec sheet. There are some rumors that the 4k Fairchild sensor was meant for the pocket 4k, but they didn’t have it ready in time so blackmagic went with Sony (guessing).
I am honestly not sure who would use that new Fairchild sensor, as micro four thirds seems to be on life support. Panasonic seem focused on their full frame and blackmagic just released the larger sensor 6k. Maybe there will be a pocket 4k v2 with higher frame rates and it will still retain micro four thirds - if so, I can see that camera using this sensor, possibly.