gt3rs

13 minutes ago, Eno said:

You should check you fact! NO, the 1DX mk3 does not have PDAF "enabled" in RAW video at any frame rate!

Yea right you should not trust youtubers and news guy wanna be but check the official spec: https://www.canon-europe.com/cameras/eos-1d-x-mark-iii/professional-filmmaking/

"Dual Pixel CMOS AF

When shooting video, Dual Pixel AF provides smooth focusing on objects selected by tapping the camera screen (or the screen of a smart device running the Canon Camera Connect app).* Faces and other objects can be tracked around the frame and the camera will smoothly re-focus to keep them sharp. You can even select which eye the focusing system should prioritise, or leave the camera to select the nearest to the camera.

* Dual Pixel AF operates in all modes except for none crop 4K or RAW at 60p/50p recording."

https://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/products/eos/1d-x-mark-iii/specs/eos-1-d-x-mark-iii-specifications.pdf

(5472 x 2886)
59.94 fps* 29.97 fps 24.00 fps 23.98 fps
RAW
4K DCI (4096 x 2160)
59.94 fps* 29.97 fps 24.00 fps 23.98 fps
ALL-I IPB
4K UHD (3840 x 2160)
59.94 fps* 29.97 fps
ALL-I IPB
4K DCI (cropped) (4096 x 2160)
59.94 fps 29.97 fps 24.00 fps 23.98 fps
ALL-I IPB
Full HD (1920 x 1080)
119.90 fps** 59.94 fps 23.98 fps^
ALL-I IPB
29.97 fps
ALL-I IPB IPB (Light)
* AF does not function. ** Audio not recorded at High Frame Rate 119.90 fps recording ^ 24p recording will be supported through firmware update after shipping.

21 minutes ago, Eno said:

Should I mention that Canon braves itself with the "new Digic X processor purportedly offers 3.1x faster image processing and 380x faster computing performance relative to the older Mark II", that can't handle AF during 4k 60p with no crop or RAW 30p. So you tell me if either Canon are lying about it's capabilities and it's not that fast or they intentionally crippled the AF in 4K 60p and RAW recording? I bet it is the latter, they are masters at crippling user desired features!

The camera reads the RAW data in any mode and the card reader writes the data anyway (until it's limit speed). The lack of AF during RAW recording is indeed just a "cartel crippling" as you personally said.

You should check your facts because 1dx iii can perfectly AF at FF 5.5k 30p RAW it cannot at 60p

Second the camera reads RAW in buffer then you need to do AF and in parallel compress the RAW data write to the card and process a 4k supersample proxy 10bit 4:2:2 and write to a second card all in 16ms max. But yeah is crippling as everybody has this tech and spec in a weather sealed body.....

1 hour ago, Eno said:

This is pure BS you know? Reading RAW sensor data is easier than reading and encoding it. There is absolutely NO technical reason why there is NO AF on RAW output on 1Dx3 but the Canon crippling hammer!

You need to process these pixels to do the AF while you are reading and pumping out to a CFExpress card in parallel in a weather sealed body..... No one as done it yet in a sealed body..... and with fan only two cameras that starts at 16k usd did achieve this….. So yes there is not technical reason is just a cartel crippling 🙂

6 minutes ago, Eno said:

 

Also look at Canon, they finally gave 4K 60p with no crop and raw video but it is without PDAF. I bet they all have a cartel agreement between them so that no one offers a products that will bring out of the business the others.

Yes "really finally" because there a are soo many others camera and manufacture that offer 4k 60p FF with AF 😉:

A wait only C700FF and C500 II have it.

It is an huge amount of data to read and process in a small not ventilated camera. No cartel of whatsoever..... just cost and tech challenges.  

5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Yeah, I know even "simple" things take time to do. 

But implementing 24fps should be relatively low hanging fruit here, it's not like we're asking for 240fps!

And a *LOT* of content still today gets shot in 1080, thus it is kinda cruel to leave it out at launch. Shows their priorities, pretty low for videomakers. 

FF 5.5k up to 60fps and FF 4k up to 60fps 10bit Log yes I agree Canon priorities for video makers are pretty low for this camera. 

Who would ever spend 6.5k usd for delivering 1080 can pick tons of other much cheaper cameras? It is good that they will add it as fw update and I’m sure will be the least used feature for the buyers of this camera.

You seems frustrated and trying to find wrong things on this camera at all costs. You don’t like it, too expensive for you, ok so move on.... the good news is that you don’t need to buy it?

9 hours ago, Emanuel said:

 

Just a comment line. In a word to say the least: Impressive. The best bang for the buck today : -)

Only static shoot on the last video, camera is fixed on a tripod. Other test did not seems to show too much gain in details for reframed video. Photos seems a good step up but I don’t care too much for 360 photos. For me the interesting part is the reframing and there it does not seems to gain that much if any....

Did order the one R as I use quite a bit the one X as action camera but not being waterproof and the very fragile mount and no lens protection is a pain. I have the venture case but is the worst thing I brought the stitching even with the flag for venture case is quite bad. If it is good I will sell the one X. 

I did take a loom at the 8k quocam but no exchangeable battery, size and same fragile construction is not well suited as action cam.

Waiting for review of the 1’ module if it is good I will buy it to replace my gopro 4.....

23 minutes ago, androidlad said:

With 60fps full 5.5K readout, the rolling shutter isn't going to be higher than 16.7ms.

Yes I think you are right but also at 24fps should be the same as you read then wait then read etc no?

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Delaying 4K 60fps is understandable due to bandwidth limitations / processing power limitations to work around. 

But you can't say the same about 1080 24p 

That is like me saying I'm going to run a sub 3hr Boston Marathon qualifier in a couple of month's time, but I can't go for a half hour 3 mile jog with you because it is too fast / too long for me to handle. 

That just doesn't add up

Do a read on how to manage a software backlog  in a large team with priorities, cost, velocity etc. Also do a read on test driven development and you realize how much more time it takes even for a few line of code especially when you are so close to deliver a final release. 

But yea is typical Canon crippling for a few month to protect xyz camera?

In fact Canon will lose tons of sales due to people waiting for the firmware to add 1080 24fps.....

You should be happy that Canon finally is all in at least with the 1dx iii and c500 ii... more competition is always good. I’m a Canon user but I’m super happy that Panasonic, Fuji and Blackmagic continue to innovate and push the boundary. I’m sure without them there would be no improvements on Canon video part in dslr...

I hope that they will be all in also on the R and M camera in the future...

47 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

 

Not being able to do 60fps is usually due to a technical limitation they're still working on. 

 

You've got no such excuse for excluding 24fps 

I don't want to start an argument here as there was a long full wrong info thread on the 24p for Canon.

Sony and Canon did omit a feature that will be released as firmware, so it means no technical issue but did not have enough time, man power or priority to finish it in time. If it would be a big technical challenge it would be a huge risk to officially announce that you will deliver this feature in a future firmware update and you may never get it done. When you write software you always have trade off in term of priorities vs time to implement vs. available dev time and testing costs. Sony decided to postpone 4k 60p, canon 1080 24p to me it seems the same issue, I do agree that probably Sony 60p work is much bigger especially for long run tests. 

What is you conspiracy theory to omit 1080 24p and announce that it will come as firmware update? Is to protect for 2-3 months a C500 II ?? 

Anyway in general I hate this new trend of unfinished software for camera with promises that can take even 1 year....

 

11 hours ago, Matthew19 said:

No it happens in video mode as well. I saw it in another review. It’s no good at all. Gimbal work could be messy with this. I’ll see when it gets here. 

Indeed it does not look great, let see the measurements.

Canon C500 II FF sensor also around 20 Mpixels has a rolling shutter of 15.9ms in FF so they would have the tech do have good rolling shutter.... Also view that one of the advertised feature is to take picture at full res in RAW at 20fps fully silent I hope they have a good rolling shutter but the video posted does not look promising.

6 hours ago, IronFilm said:

"No 1080 at 24p"

 

????

?‍♂️

Classic Canon at it again ?‍♂️?

Kinda defeats the purpose of being a small camera with great AF if you can't effectively use it on a gimbal ??‍♂️?‍♂️

"No 1080 at 24p" there will be a firmware allowing this.... seems  they copy Sony in thing like for the FX9 no 4k 60p until firmware...

34 minutes ago, Django said:

 

Well I'm a C200/5D/EOS R owner and although this setup covers every scenario and allows multi-cam setups with one set of lens, I can't help but drool over this 1DX3 and it's 10-bit internal, 5.4K RAW & sports photo specs.

It could potentially replace all 3 of my Canon cams.

C200 is the toughest to let go of because its my favourite cine cam ever as far as workflow, ease of use etc. It makes everything else feel like a PITA (including my FS7). 

CRAW Lite is also a breeze to use in DavinCi with simple drag n drop of the CRM. It looks from the Canon videos you'll need a friggin utility to convert the CRM to a TIF with 1DX3 RAW (that could obviously change) and the crazy file sizes of course.

1DX3 remains tempting. Trying to resist the urge.

I really hope that more sooner than later Resolve will support this new CRM format. No interest at all to go through a middle step utility. Workflow and video quality are still the big unknown.

In your case I would wait for some comparison between the 5.5k RAW of the 1Dx to the 4k S35 C200 RAW and 4K FF 10bit vs 4K S35 8bit before taking any action. It could be a step up in quality or a Canon disaster...
I do expect also the DPAF on the 1Dx III to be a bit better than the C200 but not sure.

I wanted to add a C200 to my 1Dx II but many times I need to walk and having two cameras to carry with different battery etc. is a pita.
Also for flight traveling the space in cabin bag is super limited.

Bottom-line if it has better in video quality than the 1Dx II (as it should be) I will sell the II and buy the III, but only after some good tests.

50 minutes ago, Gregormannschaft said:

The specs are really nice, but 13 minutes or so on a 256GB card is crazy. It's nice to have the option and it's great there's a ton of codec options in there but that's a serious cinema camera bitrate for serious productions. Maybe it'll be used as a B or crash cam on some bigger productions.

I'm not entirely sure who this is for to be honest. It's a couple more grand more expensive than the C200 I bought a couple of years ago. My hopes for a middle codec have completely disappeared, but I can't see myself seriously requiring more than the Canon RawLite format. Once you start shooting in these really nice, thick codecs it quickly shows up other areas of your production that could be improved like lenses, lighting and sound. I'd argue that if you have a camera that can shoot decent RAW and you like shooting with it, there will be no real reason to upgrade for a long time. 

It's going to be too big for a lot of shooters used to mirrorless, and it's too expensive to be used as a B cam. I'm currently using the BMPCC4K as my B cam and gimbal cam and it pairs really well with the C200. You would have to have a very particular use case to warrant splashing out on the 1DXIII as a B cam.

Serious hybrid photographers maybe?

C200 and 1Dx III have the same price:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1512601-REG/canon_eos_1d_x_mark_iii.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1340800-REG/canon_2215c002_eos_c200_ef_camera.html

Advantage of the C200:

Internal ND filter

Proper audio with XLR

Exposure helps like waveforms

EVF

More customization

30% smaller RAW file with proven workflow

DPAF in RAW 4k 60p

SDI

Movable LCD

Advantage of the 1Dx III:

Can take picture, actually this is the main goal of this camera.

FF vs. S35

5.5k RAW vs. 4k RAW

FF FHD 120fps with DPAF vs crop and no AF

Middle codec 10bit 4:2:2

Weather sealed

Smaller and a bit lighter

More gimbal friendly

More future proof memory cards and a bit cheaper

What we don’t know yet:

Low light performance

DR

Rolling shutter

1Dx III RAW workflow

Again if you do only video c200 is probably the better choice other than gimbal work and harsh conditions.

But if you do photo and video then it becomes more interesting especially if you are in the action/sports etc.. area.

28 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Let's say you're a pro earning $50k/yr, you want to live on a modest $35K/yr. 
That leaves $15k/yr to put into your business, which needs to cover running your website / advertising / repairs / transport /  software / training courses / insurance / legal / etc and all the other gear purchases you might want to make that year. 

Suddenly it starts to make you pause and think which to choose when you're considering a camera bodies which will cost you $700/yr vs $1200/yr. 

This is true across all businesses. (especially business which are in the same areas which people do for fun, often the serious but rich amatuers are using nicer gear than the hardworking pros!! Unless the pros are getting gear sponsorship, which for example in the case of sportspeople is often the only reason they can afford gear nicer than what your casual weekend warrior is using)

For example in my own world of production sound mixing, there is a shockingly large number of people (working on big shows too!) still using Cantar X2 / Sound Devices 788T / Zaxcom Deva 5.8 as their main production recorder. Doesn't mean they're not still spending heaps on of repairs and new gear each year, just its not being focused on their recorder. (kinda like working pros who are not bothering to upgrade their main camera body every single cycle)

 

My bad judging for all the world, here in Switzerland with 35k a year you cannot live point. So then my proportion make more sense. LA area I also doubt that you can live with 35k but not sure.

9 minutes ago, currensheldon said:

Most curious about:

- How is the rolling shutter? As bad a the EOS R or closer to C200/C500II?

- Is there anyway to sync timecode through any of the ports? That's one of the best features of the S1H over the other mirrorless/dslr competition (and the reason it got Netflix approved, a long with the All-I 10-bit 422 4K).

 

Me too, 1Dx II is 14.7ms but is crop so around 20-25ms but just pure guessing.

Did not see anything about timecode sync so I doubt it has it

58 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

110% agreed

If anything, running a business means you need to think even more seriously about ROI ("return on investment") than a hobbyist. As a hobbyist doesn't care at all in the slightest if his new camera will make him more money than his old camera. 

If a pro cannot afford a 1200$ per year for a camera then there is something wrong. So if you would buy a SH1 instead at 4k it would be ca. 800$ a year so difference is 400$ a year I would say that every pro should be able to afford.

IMO you buy in to a system + lens (I buy mostly used lens) and you stick with a 3-4 upgrade cycle you end up spending way less that trying to switch every 1-2 year to another system..

12 minutes ago, Silenkiller said:

we buy now for 6500 then 8 month from now price drop to 5000 ha

Could be, but here the 1dx II goes for 4400 usd new after almost 4 years.... and it was ca. 6300 usd new... it took 2.5 years to go below 5000 but time has change and if competition will bring mirrorless with similar spec the drop could be faster.

What I’m a bit more concern is the resale value in 3 years as I doubt dslr even for sports/action would still have a market in 2023-24

47 minutes ago, Silenkiller said:

i don't really use AF no worry there. DCI works for me as well. Very powerful camera i just wish was 4,000 not 6500

The market is shrinking and with phones getting better and better the pro and hardcore amateur will be the only market left. 

So I’m wondering if lowering below 5k usd would not be a better strategy. Also they may sell a few more to the C500/C200 owners and some video enthusiast.

For hybrid action photo and video like myself is a no brainer the upgrade from 1dx II to III but for photo only not sure there is enough improvements from the 1dx II

13 minutes ago, Silenkiller said:

new mk3 confirmed no crop at all in 60p

Yes I know but I thought you need AF at FF 60p.
In 4k DCI and 5.5 RAW there is no crop. In FF 4k UHD you have a slight crop because if I understood correctly it supersample the whole width to create the 4k DCI and then it crop its to make it UHD.

5 minutes ago, Silenkiller said:

whats sad as i dont care about the RAW or 10 bit CLOG anything. i just need 4k UHD @ 60p @ full frame =( maybe sony a7s iii will come save me

Currently the only one is C500 II.... or but with a firmware update and with a bit of crop FX9.... all above >11k usd

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

?

  21 hours ago, Django said:

As this promo video showcases a perfect intended scenario:

The perfect intended scenario for 1D mk3 buyers is people who fool around with rich people's toy playthings? As I click the video and immediately see a Lambo

Yes, I can see indeed how such people would indeed be buying a 1Dmk3!

Larry Chen is quite famous as photographer/videographer in the car culture from racing to tuning etc... he was one of the key author at speedhunters web site that was and imo still is one of the best car site with really focus on having great pictures and articles, a rare thing in the online world. 

Just check is web gallery and you can see the quality of his work: https://www.larrychenphoto.com/

He is a pro that made a career out of photo and video of car.

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

It is a damn pity that we don't see all mid range and up cameras with waveform, it is just software for them to add, it isn't impossible if they've got the spare CPU cycles and the desire to do it. 

Sadly is only on the Panasonic GH5/GH5S/S1H/S1(although I think the S1 requires a paid upgrade for WFM? Ditto G9 maybe? Not sure). 

Come on Fuji/Nikon/Sony/Canon!!!! Add waveforms. 
 

Yep, is bad that waveforms are not there but I did implement waveform in code and is quite cpu intensive. Even in Resolve if you are at the limit and you turn off waveforms you get better display fps.

4 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

IBIS in video is improved over A7III? Did not know that. 

As for the 1DX, some of the specs are utterly impressive, especially coming from Canon. It really is a great move. However I am far from buying it because it's $6.5K. Although even at $3K I would not buy it because:

- 1.5KG, thanks but no thanks 
- DSLR and its shortcomings especially in videos. Thanks, but no thanks. Are we in 2020?
- No IBIS. Well we must be in 2012.
- No AF in 4K60P FF. Literally the interesting spec for me is the 4K60p FF 10 bit which is amazing, but I shoot 90% video with AF on, so unfortunately that's a major deal breaker. 
- Couple of details like fixed screen

If they would have released some of those specs (4K60 FF 10 bits, with DPAF) in the EOS-R body, with IBIS, I would be all over it. 
Now Sony can do it with the A7SIII, releasing what I have asked for years here, a FF 4K60P 10 bit camera with great AF (sorry S1H) and IBIS in a decent form factor. If they don't then f*ck it, I am gonna shoot with iPhones now on :).

I’m also disappointed that no FF 4k 60 dpaf but currently there are only two cameras on the planet that can do FF 4k 60p 10bit with AF:

C500 II, C700 FF

No other camera can do it yet. 1Dx III come close at 1.34 crop, Sony FX9 will be around 1.1-1.2 crop with new firmware.

So it seems quite a bit of a tech challenge to get it done on a FF sensor.

I take AF over IBIS any day but I do a lot of action shooting where manual with my skills is just a no go.

56 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Not sure about 1.3x? Same crop as 1D X II so more like 1.4x in DCI 4K and 1.5x in UHD

Shame no DPAF in the highest quality 60fps modes.

Does it work in 5K RAW at all? 24p?

So a bit crippled, but the main thing that cripples this camera is the DSLR form factor. We are way beyond it.

1D X II came out in 2016, and by 2019 was worth just £2500. So hopefully, many more of us can pick up the Mark III in 2022 or something used, when it will make more sense. I am not shelling out £5500+ for a DSLR and £1000 for some cards, no matter how good that codec is.

In the Leica SL2 I have 5 axis IBIS better than Sony, killer codec and colour science, amazing EVF, Leica's sleek body and minimalist controls, 4K/60p, 5.5K anamorphic and internal 10bit LOG for that price, and no need to buy expensive CF Express cards. When I need to dabble in 4K with autofocus, I can switch to A7R IV. Both these cameras shoot arguably better stills than the 1D X III although personally most of the time I am usually as happy with 20MP as I am with 60MP... Landscape shots and cropping benefit enormously from the higher resolution hybrid cameras.

And when I want 1800Mbit 4K RAW files, I turn to the bargain Sigma Fp.

It is good though that Canon seem now to be abandoning their 'lets piss off every video user all the time' strategy with their stills cameras. Bodes well for next EOS R.

If these two official canon source are correct DPAF works in 24, 25 and 30 fps in RAW

https://www.canon-europe.com/cameras/eos-1d-x-mark-iii/professional-filmmaking/

"Dual Pixel CMOS AF

When shooting video, Dual Pixel AF provides smooth focusing on objects selected by tapping the camera screen (or the screen of a smart device running the Canon Camera Connect app).* Faces and other objects can be tracked around the frame and the camera will smoothly re-focus to keep them sharp. You can even select which eye the focusing system should prioritise, or leave the camera to select the nearest to the camera.

* Dual Pixel AF operates in all modes except for none crop 4K or RAW at 60p/50p recording"

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/products/details/cameras/eos-dslr-and-mirrorless-cameras/dslr/eos-1d-x-mark-iii  under video spec there is the table that indicate that DPAF is not available only in 50 and 60 fps RAW.

Not sure I follow you buy a Leica SL2 + A7R IV + a Sigma Fp and you carry all 3 and you complain about the cost of a single Camera that cover most needs....

I brought the 1Dx II when it came out almost 4 years ago payed 6k usd + 800 usd of CFCards, now is worth around 2000 usd as I have 250k shutter actuations. So 1200 USD a year almost less that Adobe subscription ?  Others in these 4 years they brought A7s II then GH5 then SH1 and so on so at the end I bet that they have spent much more money that I did.

But again if I was a video only for the same price I would probably buy a C200. As I do tons of action photos too as you can see from my shutter count the 1Dx III is very compelling.
Still not so sure on the short term RAW workflow especially with Resolve. 

As for Sony they cannot even do FF 4k 60fps yet on the FX9.... and even when they will release the firmware it will have a crop... I doubt that a A7s III will do FF 4k 60fps with AF at 10bits but would be great if they achieve this.

6 minutes ago, forofilms said:

Thanks. I didn't see it listed on Andrew's chart. Any idea how much recording time we have in 4k 1.3x crop DCI dpaf in 60fps on a 64gb or 128gb card?

Is in Andrew’s article and on canon withepaper. It depends bitrates go for 4k 60p from min 230 Mbits/s up to 1000 Mbits/s

6 minutes ago, forofilms said:

My understanding was that the there was a cropped 4K mode where you could record 60fps with DPAF? Is that not the case? Is there no codec or mode you can record 60fps along with DPAF? Also, C-Log is restricted to H.265 only, correct? 

5.5k raw dpaf up to 30 fps

4k FF dpaf up to 30 fps

4k 1.3x crop DCI dpaf up to 60fps

FF FHD dpaf up to 120fps

10bit clog is always h265