Django

1 hour ago, Mokara said:

Those DSLRs are not designed with video in mind, although they can do it. Not a whole lot of people shoot stills in live view mode with a DSLR, hence peaking is not there.

One other thing you guys keep forgetting is that these sorts of things are almost certainly covered by patents and what you can and can't use will be determined by whatever licence you have and when the patent expires. I work in the tech industry making cutting edge products, and we can only do a fraction of what we want to do because there is a huge minefield of IP owned by competitors out there. Just because something is possible does not mean you can use it. And even if you can use it in one product it does not mean you can use it in another for a different application. Not unless you don't mind being sued for retail proceeds of course.

It always surprises me how people who have no experience in the business world and how it works view things simplistically. Real life is not that straightforward and not everyone is out to screw you over. I can guarantee you that every single camera company out there, bar none, can't make the product they want to make because of all the related IP owned by the competition. What we as consumers get is the best compromise with what is possible without being sued.

5D series was not designed with video in mind?! It started the whole FF video craze..

Anyways that's all very interesting but i doubt any of that applies here. Peaking & Eye AF have nothing to do with anyone getting sued. Both features are already in their $600 M50 MILC. You wanna make us believe they can't use it in their EOS R because of some kind "IP minefield"? If patents exist for those features (which i doubt is the case, especially peaking) Canon visibly own them and can apply them however they want.

Reality is Canon are pros at product segmentation and have long kept video assist features for their cine line but they are also severely limited by their own tech. No BSI sensors, no IBIS system etc. Perhaps indeed if they tapped to Sony like Nikon did for sensors they wouldn't have fallen so behind, but Canon is stubborn and takes pride in doing things on their own. It's kinda reminiscent of Apple's stubborness to resist adopting intel chips in their Macs for the longest of times. Another thing is Canon likes to play it safe, and will withhold features to prioritize stability where others like Sony will cram features at the risk of overheat failures. 

@Mokara few people use live view for video in DSLRs? anyways we're talking mirrorless and just about every current mirrorless camera has peaking..

@mercer look closer, it's listed under playback. nothing indicates it'll be available in live view. it's a pretty annoying feature anyway imo.

Looks like you might be right about the 1.5x crop on D5.. so let's hope Canon doesn't pull a 2016! 

1 minute ago, mercer said:

Well, the last FF camera, with 4K, Canon released was over 2 years ago. Panasonic didn’t have a 4K camera without a crop. Fuji didn’t have a 4K camera without a crop. Nikon didn’t have a 4K camera without a crop. I believe Sony was the only manufacturer that had a 4K camera without a crop...

 The 2016 Nikon D5 shoots FF 4K.. 

Re: EF-S lenses:

Compatible Lenses

Canon RF lens group (excluding EF, EF-S and EF-M lenses)
When using Mount Adapter EF-EOS R: Canon EF or EF-S lenses

Right well at least EOS R has the new Digic 8 processor (vs Digic 6+ on 5D4). hopefully peaking & eye-AF trickles up from M50..

FWIW the 5D4 sensor is 30.4MP vs 30.3MP on the EOS R. incremental difference i know but could mean technically not same (old) sensor.

We'll know for sure tomorrow:

CRINGE

@Andrew Reid The music video was shot in FX mode, internal, standard profile:

"I filmed this straight to card. I had an exceptionally fast turn-around deadline so I did it for workflow ease.  My camera profile was standard and it was shot in FX. I tried to create the cleanest most straight forward look so everyone can see how wonderful the footage looks without and color correction or editing."

4 minutes ago, gelaxstudio said:

I'd check the spec PDF，nowhere seeing it

But I saw only one 3.5 input on the extension system terminal，it could mean no headphone jack 

....

strangely enough Canon don't really advertise the peaking feature on M50 and Eye-AF isn't even listed in it's pdf specs!

the EOS R will have a headphone jack, you can clearly see it in the leaked side pic:

9 hours ago, mercer said:

Well, nobody knows that for sure. In fact, if you google EOS R 4K crop, EOS HD is the only site that it comes up as a fact...

Well heres another fact: the single only Canon camera that currently shoots FF 4K without a crop is... the $33,000 C700 FF.

Odds aren't looking very good but yeah who know's for sure heh.

Fuji rumors says under $1,599. 

Pretty impressive specs, AF also got a welcome bump.

Pretty sure EOS R will have peaking as it's available in M50. Both cameras share the new Digic 8 processor.

Yeah it's easy to understand the frustration.. as from the looks of it I fear there will be no IBIS, no Log, no 10-bit..etc

and then we got the elephant in the room: 4K crop.

1.74x is not Super35 and if Andrew is right and it's 1.9x well that's just micro 4/3 territory and who buys FF camera/lenses for that kind of crop? Not me.

The 2012 1DC only had a 1.3x 4K crop. It would just be plain wrong to have to deal with +1.74x crop six years later. I'd rather just cop a 1DC.

Sony set the bar high with A73 at $2K and now Nikon just upped to the ante with 10-bit out & 8K Timelapse.

Canon shooters are expecting better video specs at end 2018. We'll get a clearer picture on Wednesday i guess.

Optical performance of the new lenses should be fine, especially with the video optimizations. Focus by wire however not a fan of.. and the 3 lenses aren't that exciting, especially compared to Canon's offering.

26 minutes ago, DBounce said:

I think it will be an EF mount like the EVA1. 

That would be a mistake imo, going against Canon's excellent AF integration of their own lenses. EVA1 can't even do continuous AF and hunts just to get basic one touch center-only AF. It's ok cuz it's a cine cam and most will use cine glass and/or follow focus system but on a compact hybrid that would be a disaster imo.

Because GH5/GH5S/BMP4K are dealing with a small M43 sensor. It's much easier to manage heat dissipation & processing speed than on FF.

The fact remains Nikon's Z6/7 10-bit via HDMI are the first & only FF compact cameras currently allowing you that.

Also 30MP isn't meh, it's a really good balance in between file size, resolution & ISO performance. 

I'm still super skeptical over this. Panny ain't going to put a much better sensor in this than their EVA1/Varicams cmon.

If they do, we're talking a super expensive cine cam. But why would they release a high-end cine cam at Photokina?

Also starting a new mount & lenses from scratch?! Have they even ever made FF lenses?

Their AF has always been pretty crap..

It just doesn't add up to me, especially entering the market at this particular point against Canikon & Sony.

Sounds really risky to me, it's a bold move i'll give em that!

It's funny how polarizing opinions are on this camera depending on if you're on the stills or video side.

I'm seeing a lot of GAME OVER NIKON/SONY comments on photog sites.

Indeed the lens line-up, -6EV & 5.6K AF points has got Canon photo fanboys wetting their pants, understandably so tbh.

The casual video amateur also thinks 4K, DPAF & Flip-screen means an automatic win.

Like most of you I'm pretty underwhelmed by the video specs (or lack thereof) but will reserve final judgement for official full release info.

I'm really rooting for Canon to get it right even though i know I'm probably going to be disapointed.

Again the lens line-up, DPAF & Canon skintones are super strong selling points imo.

If there isn't a 4k crop & they include C-Log 10-bit out via HDMI that could make it a go for me.

44 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

What are you guys filming that makes S35 so redundant? I think it's a great format, you can have smaller, lighter lenses, but still get very shallow DOF. 

Nothing wrong with S35 but the latest gen FF bodies from Sony, Nikon & Canon all offer a S35 mode so they're really more versatile imo.

Also there is a 1.7x crop in 4K on Fujis so it isn't really S35 and 1080p has moire/aliasing issues. I'm really hoping XT3 sorts that.

31 minutes ago, mercer said:

Yeah I think you may be right here. I don’t think Canon is protecting their Cinema line as much as they’re protecting an upcoming 5DR.

Actually the current 5D4 is already superior IQ wise with it's beefy 4:2:2 500mbps codec, DCI 4K resolution & C-log. The 1DX2 is of course even better with 4k60p, 1080p 120fps & 1.3x 4k crop.

So yeah Canon is clearly protecting C-line & DSLR line by segmenting markets through careful feature placements.

EOS R is going to be mainly aimed at still shooters that dabble in video & Youtubers/Vloggers that'll eat it up.

35 minutes ago, MattH said:

With the stated still horizontal resolution of 6720, a 1:1 quad-hd 3840 wide crop will be a 1.75x crop.   Other people have already mentioned that this was the crop for the 5d mk4 when it came out.  They decreased the crop with a firmware update but it required a better head sink being installed.  Will this have a big heat sink from the start? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

the crop factor on 5D4 hasn't decreased since it came out.. and certainly not with a firmware update or heat sink being put inside it?!

No IBIS, no Log, no 10-bit, Cropped 4K is my guess. No 120fps in 1080p already confirmed.

I think the EOS R is mainly focused on stills and video for the casual / vlogger people (DPAF & Flip screen is what they'll put forward).

For serious uncompromised video Canon invites you to try their C line of products.

15 minutes ago, mercer said:

I don’t think there’s a crop. They specifically mention EF-S Crop Shooting in the specs which they wouldn’t need to crop to if there was a 1.74x crop. I know that’s because they’re talking about FHD, but if they’re going to go to the trouble of mentioning a specific crop in these “final” specs, then why wouldn’t they mention a 4K crop as well.

 

I thought about that too and it's the only thing giving me faint hope for non crop 4K. However Canon don't communicate on 4K crop  (no mention of it anywhere in the 5D4 or the M50 spec sheets) so I wouldn't take that at all as a sign that there isn't a 4K crop.

I wouldn't hold my breath. Canon slapped a 8-bit 4:2:0 codec in their $7,500 C200.. no way they're going 10-bit on their entry MILC. That's not the Canon way.

Yeah this is the Vlogger model. EOS R with Canon Log edition coming second quarter of 2020. ?