Django

1 hour ago, noone said:

It remains to be seen but I suspect that for AFS lenses, then yes, the Zed's will be much better to use on than the Sony's but for AIS and AFD Nikon lenses, I think the Sony's with a cheap dumb adapter will be about as good and with a smart adapter like the Techart pro (disclaimer I have not used it), the latest Sony's would be a lot better.

I disagree. On Nikon DSLR bodies such as D750/810/850 etc.. you can enter the manual AIS lens values and it will allow Aperture priority mode and even expose using auto-ISO. A rangefinder type indicator will also indicate you focus via arrows. I certainly hope/assume these features will carry over to the Z series bodies via the native smart adapter.. as Nikon has always had outstanding backwards legacy support..

@TheRenaissanceMan check out this video i posted yesterday for some 10-bit 4K clips: https://youtu.be/8X-lBje8NrE

1 hour ago, MdB said:

WOW REALLY?! You can use the $250 adapter to use your $400 manual focus lens on their $3400 camera?! Amazing! Too bad you've equally been able to do that on the Sony's since the first A7, which are only like $700 and a $10 adapter. But props for Nikon finally having something you can do that with. They are really 'innovating' there

Thanks for the tip, but guess what? I've been using my AIS/AFD/AFS Nikkor lens collection on Sony & Fuji bodies for years now.. but those cheap dumb adapters go so far. I'm looking forward to a more elegant solution which the FTZ adapter should bring, can you blame me?

1 hour ago, MdB said:

Ironic given that to you Nikon > Sony no matter what. Yet it is only offensive one way?

 

No, what's really ironic is that i'm currently on Sony gear professionally speaking and Canon/Fuji gear in personal ownership. I haven't even owned a Nikon body in years lol.. however I am mature enough not to have any brand loyalty blinding me or fanboy insecurities over my personal investment clouding my judgement.

Anyways the Nikon isn't perfect and more importantly it hasn't been released and tested yet. But from what i've seen so far and knowing their reputation & gear qualities as an ex-owner, I am not only excited about this release, I do feel indeed that for my needs it trumps current Sony offerings in a multitude of ways (and in others it doesn't). In any case this is positive for all consumers as it will put pressure on Sony and Canon to go even further on their upcoming mirrorless releases.

You don't have to agree with me but I advise you calm down cuz I'm getting some real aggressive vibes from you when in reality i'm on your side as a C100/5D owner. we cool?

..and back on topic with the Z6 currently at.. #1 position.. followed by Z7 at #3..

https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Mirrorless-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/3109924011

6 minutes ago, mercer said:

 When I first got my 5D3 and installed ML, I didn’t understand why everybody wasn’t shooting with it.

 

You must have joined the party late.. as this forum's moniker still indicates.. at a certain point everybody was shooting with it.  

Hey before I get Sony users too riled up,  my company did call me yesterday asking if we should switch our Sony mirrorless gear to Nikon Z.. 

Nikon may have won this battle (imo) but the mirrorless war ain't over..

Lol.. ok now were defending an unannounced hypothetical future camera.. wow the force is strong with this one!  

Basically the point is no matter what you say or prove to him:  Sony > Nikon. 

I've already been through it once back when XH1 was announced. Back then GH5 was the holy one.

Newsflash: Body & Lenses are weather resistance tested together. Think about it, doesn't make sense any other way..

FYI the Sony 24-70mm F4 isn't close to this level of weather sealing (it has no rubberized gasket around the mount)..

sorry but everybody knows Nikon is on a whole other level of weather resistance then Sony..

Huh? The Nikon Z lenses are absolutely weather sealed.. please get your info correct

..in that case so are the Sony's:

35mm F2.8 is $800

35mm F1.4 is $1,600

50mm F1.4 is $1,500

also the S-line is supposed to be optimized for video with minimum breathing & noise.

and with the adapter you got access to some really good affordable Nikkor glass, like the 50mm F1.2 i recently purchased for under $400

42 minutes ago, jonpais said:

How many here have already pre-ordered the Nikon Z7 bundled with 24-70mm f/4 and FTZ adapter for $4,146.90? I nearly got sticker shock when I bought my Sony lenses, but Nikon's pricing takes the cake!

A7RIII with 24-70mm f/4 will run you about $4,000. Add a smart adapter and you are well over that.

If you're into video Z6 is the obvious choice anyways.

Not sure what point you're trying to make.. Nikon is being extremely competitive in pricing compared to Sony.. considering you're getting pro weather sealed bodies, 10-bit 4:2:2 out etc..

@jonpais ok forget the words “Dual Pixel”. They’ve copied how Canons Video Autofocus operates & works. Watch the 5DIV Video I posted above and compare what it shows you to the video AF details I posted an hour ago from Nikons Z7 brochure.

Well they've copied how Canon's DPAF operates & works,  but certainly not on the patented root level..

As for Tony & Chelsea, concerning video AF they say at 4:00 "almost Canon level of smooth & usable". As for stills AF they disclaim "we can't be certain our results were exact because the lighting & environment we were in - not good" "we had the camera for an hour and couldn't go outside". like is said in the other thread, Z7 has -1EV AF detection and you have to enable "Low light AF" to reach -4EV which they probably did not do. So in other words, i wouldn't call their report conclusive..

Now that wouldn't be very wise now.. no I mean the overall settings and operability, it's literally just lifted off the 5DIV:

Looks like Nikon have done their homework and thoroughly copied Canon's dual pixel AF for video implementation:

The Z 7 newly offers AF-C as a movie focus mode. By pressing the AF-ON button during movie recording, you can flexibly control when AF starts and stops. Used in combination with AF speed and AF tracking sensitivity options, this mode also makes it possible to use “focus pull” techniques, to make scenes more impressive. AF-C allows you to take full advantage of the shallow depth-of- field and beautiful bokeh effects that an FX-format sensor and NIKKOR Z lenses offer. 

Focusing speed and the smoothness of focus transitions when switching between subjects can make a huge difference in movies. The Z 7 lets you customize the speed* and tracking sensitivity of AF when filming videos. AF speed is adjustable in 11 steps, between “Slow” (-5) and “Fast” (+5). At lower levels, focus is achieved slowly, making scenes look more cinematic. AF tracking sensitivity can be adjusted in 7 steps, from “High” (1) to “Low” (7). Select a higher sensitivity if you want to switch focus quickly to the next subject, and a lower sensitivity for maintaining focus on the current subject for longer. 

Smart of them to copy top features from various industry leaders. Love the on/off AF toggle in Canon DPAF units. speed & sensitivity settings should also allow diverse & smooth video AF response..

When “On” is selected for “Auto-area AF face detection,” the camera automatically detects faces, and users can choose which face to focus on if there is more than one. Thanks to a newly developed face-detection and subject-tracking algorithm, the AF can keep tracking a subject’s face if they turn their head or briefly look away. 

This should prevent the AF system going haywire when multiple faces are in field, and from the looks of it, it actually works:

38 minutes ago, jhnkng said:

Thanks for posting that, it’s good to see that there are reviews that talk about the bad. I thought they made some decent points and observations, and they’re pretty even handed with their views. Hopefully a lot of that stuff can be fixed in firmware, and hopefully they follow Fuji’s example and have regular firmware updates to refine the camera (even if they don’t add extra features). If nothing else that focus issue needs a fix, it sounds a lot like my D800, which has rubbish AF. 

Their main gripe seems indeed about the low-light AF performance.. after spending an hour with a pre-production camera.. in a dim lit environment.

It should be pointed out that the Z7 has -1EV AF detection (Z6 has -2EV) unless you enable the "low light AF" feature which brings it down to -4EV.

My guess is they were shooting default AF setting.

That said for all I know the AF does struggle in low-light (most MILCs do imo), I'd just wait until more thorough reviews before passing judgment..

If pro photography is your main gig.. then this is definitely not going to top a D850 (or even D750) especially with adapted lens.

But for hybrid/video shooting, i think Z6 is going to be the bees knees!

@Mark Romero 2 1080p 120fps only in DX crop mode???   that's on Z7. Z6 won't crop.

3 hours ago, Robert Collins said:

I think Nikon very deliberately marketed the camera a 'step below' the D850 pro camera. Why do I say that? Well look at these very deliberate choices that Nikon made...

1 card slot (not really pro)

Small battery (not really pro)

Choice of lenses to be released with the body

24-70 f4

50 1.8

35 1.8

...again not really pro....

 

 

..yet technically speaking:

Faster processor (Expeed 6)

Faster card support (soon CFexpress compatible)

Bigger battery (EN-EL 15B)

More AF points (493 vs 153)

Bigger AF coverage & Hybrid PDAF

Bigger mount

Better video specs

IBIS

..as for the lenses they are being marketed as optically superior to their G counterparts and optimized for video.. (but of course only 3 available atm)

all that being said Nikon are pretty clever and have deliberately left open space for Z8/Z9 and have been careful enough to not cannibalize it's DSLR counterparts by leaving out second card slots and slower legacy lens performance etc..

i'm still GASing hard for a Z6, but in no way do these 2 models make a D850/D5 obsolete, for photography. These aren't killing the DSLR just yet.

@noone most likely a typo, Nikon japan site rates the battery life for video at 85mn: http://www.nikon-image.com/products/mirrorless/lineup/z_6/spec.html

there is also a battery saving feature and of course it all depends how you use the camera, but jareds report should indicate real world field use is much superior to the CIPA rating..

55 minutes ago, Tone1k said:

Ultimately what I was trying to get at by indirectly comparing Nikon's camera to a drone  is that DJI (a drone company) can see the value of 10bit codecs in consumer drones but camera manufacturers who's primary goal is image quality, apparently can't. 

 

DJI isn't just a drone company anymore, they purchased hasselblad and mavic 2 embarks a hasselblad branded camera, hence the more pro specs (on paper, really i suspect it's more marketing). it has a 1" sensor though, making 10-bit relatively easy to achieve processing wise. this is how panasonic and now fuji are achieving 10-bit internally without heat issues. it's another story for full frame mirrorless. regardless, nikon are the first to push 10-bit external on a sensor and body this size..

Pretty sweet 10-bit 4:2:2 colors demonstrated here. Slow-mo seems pretty sharp / alias free & AF face tracking does good job on the gimbal (ibis?) shot. 

My Fuji system might be getting the axe soon.. 

21 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

It doesn't have an internal Log, and it is 8bit, an outdated Codec, and only 24mps @ 30p and you think it is going to get over 13 + stops internally?? Really?

Well why the hell would Anybody ever buy this New BM PK4? It is Only 12.5 to13 as BM is stating it stops wise.

The proof is in the pudding. Sony claims 14 stops on A73 and that's an 8-bit codec . So yeah why get the BM P4K? we all know some companies fudge these claims, others are more conservative.Nikon is probably the later, they gave a CIPA rating of 10-15mn video battery life, yet Fro dude says " The battery read 44% at the end of our shooting which included 500 or so photos, setting up the menus as well as filming for close to 20 minutes in full frame 4k."

20 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

He also says in the commentaries that the battery life at least seems better than the CIPA rating. Which is a slight relief.

 

"One thing I did not mention is battery life. The battery read 44% at the end of our shooting which included 500 or so photos, setting up the menus as well as filming for close to 20 minutes in full frame 4k. Not sure if that is good or bad just yet but a grip is something I will def be using with two batteries."

That is a massive improvement over the US Nikon site ratings info. Looks like the Japanese site rating (85 minutes of video) is more accurate. That is quite excellent news as battery life was a massive blow in the announced specs..

6 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah and  No internal N-Log is sort of crazy also. They had made this camera where you kind of Have to buy an external recorder if you want any sort of good DR. And then they are talking like 12 stops, pretty good but not great either. I mean it has some really nice stuff in it, but where it really counts, DR, and a thicker Codec you are not going to have a small package, and you are going to shell out some pretty big bucks between the two to make it happen. But it is a huge plus for Nikon to even offer it at all, I will give them that. It will be a hit for them no doubt. A few firmware updates and it might be sorted out a bit more also. Damn good for a first try.

Don't underestimate Nikon's flat profile. Mattias Burling had estimated 2014's D750 Flat profile DR at +13 stops:

These 2018 Z series BSI sensors should push out the same if not better DR internally..

Apparently Atomos actually helped Nikon develop the 10-bit N-Log..